German Politics I: Turn Left at the Traffic Light

[Arisyan]

German domestic intelligence service (BfV) to put entire far right AfD party under surveillance next week

took them long enough. Still im cheering! Now, did they do that to the National Democratic Party? they've almost been banned like 4 times.

[Shrillland]

German domestic intelligence service (BfV) to put entire far right AfD party under surveillance next week

A good thing they're dropping in the polls...and a god thing in general. Maybe the government will outright ban them, but I doubt it in the short term. If Meuther can make them a standard alt-right populist racket, he could plausibly avoid charges of Nazism.

[Nazis in Space]

Nobody's going to ban a party that's polling at around 10%.

Nevermind the history of party bans, which is basically a history of failure and abuse of power.

I doubt the AfD will just disappear, either. The CDU's move to the left basically left a vacuum on the right. Political and ideological positions that used to be those of the CDU's right wing are now the AfDs. That's sufficiently popular to keep them afloat, their regular attempts at destroying themselves notwithstanding.

The exception to this is the AfD's russophilia (and to an extent the AfD taking up American right-wing talking points rather than actually being a German party, but I suspect that would've happened regardless of whether they have their own party or are a part of the CDU; American media dominance is a hell of a drug for the rest of the planet), but eh. Needs something to distinguish itself, I guess.

Ultimately, they're to the CDU what the Linke is to the SPD. The disgruntled ideologues yearning for a past that won't come back, disliked by everyone, but in a decade or two people will probably be reluctantly willing to do state-level coalitions with them.

If the CDU hadn't gone left, the AfD wouldn't exist, the SPD would be stronger, but the CDU would still win forever, and AfD-esque people would actually be closer to the levers of power. Make of that what you will.

Also, gotta say, while I won't vote for them any more than for the CDU or the Linke (it's usually Green on the federal level, SPD on the state- and local level, because the state- and local Greens are insane, while the federal ones are tolerable), I must say that I'm impressed by their staying power. Compared to past right-wing attempts (who remembers the DVU media panic of the late 1990s?), they've been remarkably consistent. At this point, I think it's safe to say that they rate well above the usual flash in the pan populist right-wing party rise-and-collapse and are here to stay.

[Baltenstein]

took them long enough. Still im cheering! Now, did they do that to the National Democratic Party? they've almost been banned like 4 times.

The government had tried to ban the NPD a couple of times in the past, then they remembered that like half the party are on their payroll as secret informers and dropped the ban procedure.

The exception to this is the AfD's russophilia (and to an extent the AfD taking up American right-wing talking points rather than actually being a German party, but I suspect that would've happened regardless of whether they have their own party or are a part of the CDU; American media dominance is a hell of a drug for the rest of the planet), but eh. Needs something to distinguish itself, I guess.

It's a globalization process that is affecting all sides of the political spectrum. Just like the German Left has started to pick up narratives about "critical whiteness" and "people of color", that come directly from the US discourse and would never have developed organically inside German society, so the Right has started to pick up climate change skepticism, free gun laws and QAnon.

Also, gotta say, while I won't vote for them any more than for the CDU or the Linke (it's usually Green on the federal level, SPD on the state- and local level, because the state- and local Greens are insane, while the federal ones are tolerable)

It probably depends on the state. I am being told that Winfried Kretschmann has done a solid, pragmatist job. The Berlin Greens are definitely insane (but then, so are most Berlin parties).

[Nazis in Space]

It's a globalization process that is affecting all sides of the political spectrum. Just like the German Left has started to pick up narratives about "critical whiteness" and "people of color", that come directly from the US discourse and would never have developed organically inside German society, so the Right has started to pick up climate change skepticism, free gun laws and QAnon.

Fair. Doesn't make it any less annoying.

It probably depends on the state. I am being told that Winfried Kretschmann has done a solid, pragmatist job. The Berlin Greens are definitely insane (but then, so are most Berlin parties).

If I lived in Baden-Württemberg, I'd vote Green on the state- and local level, too. But since I live in NRW, well...

There's a remarkable disconnect between the Greens on the local level, which tend to swerve pretty hard to the left (if with regional divergences, as seen in the contrast between Berlin and BW), and the Greens on the Federal level, which swerve pretty hard to the right (relative to the Green mean, of course). The Greens' right wing, exemplified by the likes of Özdemir (granted, that atlanticism gets on my nerves, but it could be worse) or Kretschmann, is entirely electable for me. The Greens' left wing, uh, not so much.

[Shrillland]

We actually have some news, today the Saxony AfD chose their list leader for September, current AfD Bundestag Leader Chrupalla: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/bundestagswahl-afd-spitzenkandidat-sachsen-chrupalla-100.html

And SPD seems to be making sustainability the central theme of their manifesto later this year: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/spd-vorstandsklausur-oekologie-wahlkampf-100.html

[Bienenhalde]

I can't decide whether or not I would fully support the CDU in this election because they haven't announced their chancellor candidate yet. Do we have any idea when that is going to happen? I am not very confident in Laschet, he is not as bad as Merz, but not as good as Röttgen or Söder.

[Shrillland]

I can't decide whether or not I would fully support the CDU in this election because they haven't announced their chancellor candidate yet. Do we have any idea when that is going to happen? I am not very confident in Laschet, he is not as bad as Merz, but not as good as Röttgen or Söder.

Not for some time, I don't think. Right now, though, despite my earlier doubts, I think Söder's more likely, he polls better than Laschet in the chancellery preference polls.

[Kexholm Karelia]

CDU Ftw

[Infected Mushroom]

No one can persuade Merkel to stay as party leader? I’m disappointed.

[Shrillland]

No one can persuade Merkel to stay as party leader? I’m disappointed.

She wanted to retire five years ago, but she stayed around because of Trump...more specifically because she saw that, at the time, she was the West's sole steady anchor as a lot of other countries were drifting towards populism.

[Wolkenburg]

I know, I know, this is way out in advance].

No it is not. one of the many things that surprised me, is how short the Election Season is in Germany. I know all the politics are too busy not dealing with the pandemic, but come on, there is an election this year!

[Wolkenburg]

We actually have some news, today the Saxony AfD chose their list leader for September, current AfD Bundestag Leader Chrupalla: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/bundestagswahl-afd-spitzenkandidat-sachsen-chrupalla-100.html

And SPD seems to be making sustainability the central theme of their manifesto later this year: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/spd-vorstandsklausur-oekologie-wahlkampf-100.html

Very smart, the SPD will encourage people not to throw out old things. Not that it will work, the SPD is outdated and irrelevant. Of course, their ideas will be recycled though...

[Shrillland]

We actually have some news, today the Saxony AfD chose their list leader for September, current AfD Bundestag Leader Chrupalla: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/bundestagswahl-afd-spitzenkandidat-sachsen-chrupalla-100.html

And SPD seems to be making sustainability the central theme of their manifesto later this year: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/spd-vorstandsklausur-oekologie-wahlkampf-100.html

Very smart, the SPD will encourage people not to throw out old things. Not that it will work, the SPD is outdated and irrelevant. Of course, their ideas will be recycled though...

Well, the Greens are better at the argument anyway, and they're the future.

[The Huskar Social Union]

CDU is so fucking strong its mad. Hope the Greens do well at least.

[Shrillland]

CDU is so fucking strong its mad. Hope the Greens do well at least.

They're going to get a decent second place. If it wasn't for Covid, it would be a serious fight between the two, tbh.

[The Huskar Social Union]

CDU is so fucking strong its mad. Hope the Greens do well at least.

They're going to get a decent second place. If it wasn't for Covid, it would be a serious fight between the two, tbh.

Yeah i saw the CDU/CSU got a big boost in the polls once covid hit and countries began locking down. Makes sense honestly.

[Shrillland]

And of course, the federal vote won't be the only vote in September, Thuringia's finally going to have their rerun on the same day.

[The Blaatschapen]

I know, I know, this is way out in advance].

No it is not. one of the many things that surprised me, is how short the Election Season is in Germany. I know all the politics are too busy not dealing with the pandemic, but come on, there is an election this year!

I'd argue that it's the American one that is too long, rather than the german one being too short.

[Anglicora]

CDU/CSU is the least bad option for a European-friendly Germany. But Laschet is far too weak and he is compromised by Erdogan.

[Joohan]

I'm not really liking any of these - but I guess AfD? They strike me as being a bit akin to the GOP, another party I have serious issues with.

[Kexholm Karelia]

I'm not really liking any of these - but I guess AfD? They strike me as being a bit akin to the GOP, another party I have serious issues with.

While AfDs anti immigration and anti EU stance is good, along with social conservatism, many factions of the party have links to racist organizations so in general the CDU seems better for me even though their government had the worst refugee policies in Europe

[Joohan]

I'm not really liking any of these - but I guess AfD? They strike me as being a bit akin to the GOP, another party I have serious issues with.

While AfDs anti immigration and anti EU stance is good, along with social conservatism, many factions of the party have links to racist organizations so in general the CDU seems better for me even though their government had the worst refugee policies in Europe

Though I am generally opposed to neoliberalism ( and in turn, the EU ), if I were a German i'd be pro-EU. I mean, they practically run the thing, why on earth would they want to throw that away. CDU, especially since Merkel, has just been another party of neoliberalism as well, and has pretty much stopped even paying lip service to the C in their name. I'm sympathetic to the refugee's, and i've no ill feelings towards Islam, but man I just don't dig anyone in the German election.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

AFD is trash.

[Shrillland]

Laschet continues to dig that hole by showing more scepticism about lockdowns, even though his tenure in NRW showed why that scepticism was so bad in the first place: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/new-head-of-merkel-s-cdu-misfires-with-pandemic-comments/ar-BB1dLo3q?li=BBnbcA1

Does he actively want Soder in charge of CDU/CSU?

On top of this, does he think this will help him in next month's state votes?