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American Politics I: It's All Applesauce

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Asherahan
Minister
 
Posts: 2357
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Asherahan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:04 am

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:
New yugoslavaia wrote:
And what makes America "exceptional?"


The fact that American democracy is unusually and extremely resilient compared to most countries such as Malaysia, Hong Kong, Brazil, or the Philippines. It is perhaps the only country in the world with a presidential-type democratic system that isn't a failed, banana republic. This makes it one-of-a-kind.


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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37924
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:04 am

Gravlen wrote:The Trump campaign lawyer who said there were a “non-zero number” of Republicans observing Philly vote count asks to withdraw:

Client has used the lawyer’s services to perpetrate a crime and the client insists upon taking action that the lawyer considers repugnant and with which the lawyer fundamentally disagrees.”

Speaking of: The lawyer who was on Trump’s call with Raffensperger, Cleta Mitchell, has left the firm where she was working.
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Sahravana
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Jan 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Sahravana » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:05 am

Des-Bal wrote:
Sahravana wrote:doesn't matter


Yes it does, because firing somebody for committing a serious crime and firing them for having political opinions you disagree with are wildly different.

pretty soon being conservative will be considered "a serious crime"

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The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 50875
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:05 am

Sahravana wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
Yes it does, because firing somebody for committing a serious crime and firing them for having political opinions you disagree with are wildly different.

pretty soon being conservative will be considered "a serious crime"

You are so desperate to be a victim its laughable.
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Conservative Republic Of Huang
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Posts: 1938
Founded: Jul 09, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conservative Republic Of Huang » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:05 am

Sahravana wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
You joking right? You think it was wrong to fire this person for insurrection and sedition?

that's what they said about samuel jackson and the sons of liberty

What this sounds like is support for political violence.
Pro: Direct democracy, e-democracy, parliamentary sovereignty, state secularism, non-violent direct action (striking), police reform, syndicalism, democratic workplace management
Anti: Most types of representative democracy, ultra-nationalism, imperialism, autocratic workplace management, the state

"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say syndicalism now, syndicalism tomorrow, syndicalism forever."
George Wallace, 1963
(modification of an actual quote of his)

not conservative or a republic

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Gravlen
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14734
Founded: Jul 01, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:05 am

Nakena wrote:barbarians from the viking age joined the crowds it seems.

With furs and horns!

The Marlborough wrote:I saw somewhere that apparently 45% of Republicans support the storming of the Capitol.


Imagine 45% support for the men with the horned fur hat.

It's the Qhaman.
Last edited by Gravlen on Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
Minister
 
Posts: 2518
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:06 am

What’s the difference between the political situation in the US and Nicaragua?
The Nicaraguan President’s terrorist thugs haven’t invaded the National Assembly, yet.


Jokes aside, this is extremely saddening and disgusting, but it’s not surprising in hindsight. Planned by the GOP or not, a clear chain of actions set this up. Trump declared himself president and called democracy illegal. He promoted QAnon, which called for violent insurrection should Trump lose. The rioters were simply following through.

What was surprising is how much of a fucking clown show the law enforcement response was. If hundreds of armed terrorists tried to invade the second most important building in the country, if not the most, I would have thought the police would fight back. If there ever war a time for police to shoot at crowds, it would specifically be when they’re trying to attack an entire branch of the US government to disrupt the democratic process and coup the elected candidate. Despite this, the Trump supporters were treated as roughly as peaceful protesters when they were committing an act of terrorism and insurrection. I don’t believe the death penalty should be used and I think police brutality is a serious issue that should be addressed, but I’m extremely concerned the government was so gentle with terrorists who attempted to overthrow our democracy. All of these people should be arrested, they are not patriots, they are violent traitors. These are people who support a immoral crook and liar and are willing to destroy the foundations this country was built upon to have him win at all costs. If these dumbasses waved flags of Islamic fundamentalism rather than white supremacy, they would be dead right now. As the communist bastard Mao said, the US is a paper tiger. We can’t defend our own elected leaders from anti-democratic domestic terrorists, much less maintain our global influence should the existence of such a movement continue.

The issue is one of two Americas. There’s an America for everyone and there’s Trump’s America. A large part of the country puts their strongman over everyone’s well being and the ideals that made America great. I can only hope less extreme conservatives are able to put the country before Trump’s Party.

I don’t know if the GOP can be redeemed, but I hope the few Republicans in DC who genuinely love America take a stand. There is a good chance the GOP will splinter when they have to chose an identity, I’ve seen it happen with Republicans online already. GOP legislators know it will difficult to keep this crap up. Trump is an obstacle to campaign with. But they also have used Trump fanaticism to win elections. The less ideological Congress members will have to chose whether they run as Republicans or Trump supporters. The GOP will fight over whether it is the Republican Party or Trump’s Party. His personality cult has created quite an issue now. Any reasonable statement from GOP legislators will earn them the ire of Trump supporters, but always agreeing with Trump will prevent any bipartisan cooperation or support from moderates. In the best case scenario, Trump supporters get pissed off by the former GOP establishment and go third party and the remainder of GOP leadership will have change their policies to appeal to ideological voters.

Republicans know pursuing a Trump re-election would be idiotic, but what else do they have now? Unless fanatic Trump supporters magically go back to normal humans and everyone just forgets what happened in the last 4 years, the GOP may be too fractured to run a viable campaign against Biden or retake the Senate. However, I’m expecting a lot of far right political violence to be a long lasting part of Trump’s legacy. Anyone who said not to worry about Trump in 2016 can take their bullshit and shove it back down their mouth, this is the most threatened position the Union has been in since the Civil War, and the worst attack of our federal government since 1814. This new political situation won’t be going away any time soon and Americans will have to deal with the consequences for years.

In the meantime, we have at least 4 years to rebuild the country after the most disastrous presidency in history. Democrats aren’t imperfect or infallible, but they have a promising platform and certainly could not do worse. Mitch McConnell will be gone too, which gives me hope for significant progress being made. The Biden Administration will inherit a chaotic dumpster fire of a country, but America has always been able to recover. Even though this is an unique disaster of a presidency, we Americans will figure it out and fix the country, probably. Hopefully.
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57590
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:06 am

Sahravana wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
You joking right? You think it was wrong to fire this person for insurrection and sedition?

that's what they said about samuel jackson and the sons of liberty


And what freedom was this guy fighting for?
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Des-Bal
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30489
Founded: Jan 24, 2010
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:06 am

Sahravana wrote:pretty soon being conservative will be considered "a serious crime"


So in your mind if someone wearing a MAGA hat killed and ate a baby on camera, firing would be an attack on free speech?
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Untecna
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1091
Founded: Jun 02, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Untecna » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:06 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Sahravana wrote:the radical left claims to support free speech, but this is what they do behind the scenes.


Was he fired for saying "I support Trump" or for illegally entering the Capitol trying to disrupt the electoral process ?

The second one. Quite honestly everyone who stormed the Capitol should be fired and imprisoned. Not only for the storming of the Capitol, but also disrupting the peace and other things that may have happened. Overall, this was just a coup attempt and should be treated as such.
Sahravana wrote:
San Lumen wrote:what are you talking about?

I am talking about the radical liberal socialists love for fascism.

The radical left would not like fascism in the slightest. Grab yourself a political compass and some learning materials.
Sahravana wrote:
San Lumen wrote:never heard of him or her.

I have never heard such transphobic rhetoric in my life. you ought to be ashamed.

Take a moment to calm down, and then learn how to take a joke.
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Sahravana
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Jan 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Sahravana » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:07 am

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Sahravana wrote:pretty soon being conservative will be considered "a serious crime"

You are so desperate to be a victim its laughable.

the blacks acted like victims just because a few of them got shot... how is this less significant

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Gravlen
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14734
Founded: Jul 01, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:07 am

Fmr AG Bill Barr says Donald Trump's conduct as a violent mob of his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol was a "betrayal of his office and supporters." In a statement to The AP, Barr said that "orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable."
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Page
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14025
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:07 am

Not at all surprised but nonetheless creeped out by how enthusiastically liberals have embraced the idea of charging people with sedition, a constitutionally questionable crime with a history of being used against labor and anti-war activists. 100 years ago people were charged with sedition for daring to suggest that 18 year old American boys shouldn't die in a war between European monarchs. And they're all so sure a right-wing government will never take power and use it against them.
Last edited by Page on Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57590
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:08 am

Sahravana wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:You are so desperate to be a victim its laughable.

the blacks acted like victims just because a few of them got shot... how is this less significant


So if 53 people being arrested for trying to overturn a free and fair election is tyranny, what does that make 280 people being arrested in one night for protesting against police brutality?
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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37924
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:08 am

Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe,world leader approvals, and police violence/misconduct!
Headline of the day: Chile votes on Assembly to rewrite Constitution from Pinochet's dictatorship
“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

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Insaanistan
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10529
Founded: Nov 18, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Insaanistan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:08 am

Sahravana wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
You joking right? You think it was wrong to fire this person for insurrection and sedition?

that's what they said about samuel jackson and the sons of liberty

Wanting your country to be independent due to a gross lack of political representation is not the same as storming a government building because you don’t like who won. One is something we can all identify with. The second one is just being a whiny conspiracy theorist.
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Sahravana
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Jan 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Sahravana » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 am

Vassenor wrote:
Sahravana wrote:the blacks acted like victims just because a few of them got shot... how is this less significant


So if 53 people being arrested for trying to overturn a free and fair election is tyranny, what does that make 280 people being arrested in one night for protesting against police brutality?

that was antifa

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Conservative Republic Of Huang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1938
Founded: Jul 09, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conservative Republic Of Huang » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 am

Page wrote:Not at all surprised but nonetheless creeped out by how enthusiastically liberals have embraced the idea of charging people with sedition, a constitutionally questionable crime with a history of being used against labor and anti-war activists. 100 years ago people were charged with sedition for daring to suggest that 18 year old American boys shouldn't die in a war between European monarchs. And they're all so sure a right-wing government will never take power and use it against them.

They should definitely be charged with crimes like trespassing and property destruction and all that. On the other hand, sedition is sort of overly political. It is the most direct manifestation of the self-perpetuating state.
Pro: Direct democracy, e-democracy, parliamentary sovereignty, state secularism, non-violent direct action (striking), police reform, syndicalism, democratic workplace management
Anti: Most types of representative democracy, ultra-nationalism, imperialism, autocratic workplace management, the state

"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say syndicalism now, syndicalism tomorrow, syndicalism forever."
George Wallace, 1963
(modification of an actual quote of his)

not conservative or a republic

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The Emerald Legion
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10501
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 am

Vassenor wrote:
Sahravana wrote:the blacks acted like victims just because a few of them got shot... how is this less significant


So if 53 people being arrested for trying to overturn a free and fair election is tyranny, what does that make 280 people being arrested in one night for protesting against police brutality?


They weren't protesting police brutality. That's an excuse.
"23.The unwise man is awake all night, and ponders everything over; when morning comes he is weary in mind, and all is a burden as ever." - Havamal

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57590
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 am

Sahravana wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So if 53 people being arrested for trying to overturn a free and fair election is tyranny, what does that make 280 people being arrested in one night for protesting against police brutality?

that was antifa


What was?
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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 59136
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 am

Sahravana wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
Yes it does, because firing somebody for committing a serious crime and firing them for having political opinions you disagree with are wildly different.

pretty soon being conservative will be considered "a serious crime"

That’s is such a ludicrous statement I don’t even know how to respond. Everyone involved in yesterday’s coup should lose their jobs and be arrested.
Last edited by San Lumen on Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Spirit of Hope
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9965
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 am

Sahravana wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
You joking right? You think it was wrong to fire this person for insurrection and sedition?

that's what they said about samuel jackson and the sons of liberty


Do you mean Samuel Adams?

The first amendment protects you from the government interfering in your speech, it does not protect your from others reacting to your speech. Now I'll agree that it is improper for businesses to fire their employees for peacefully protesting, but saying they shouldn't fire people who break the law is taking it a bit far.
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Corindia
Minister
 
Posts: 2608
Founded: May 29, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Corindia » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 am

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:I’m expecting a lot of far right political violence to be a long lasting part of Trump’s legacy.

pretty much, living in a red state I'm going to need a plan in case trump supporters start to look up voter registrations and target the addresses of people who aren't republican. It's not like the cops will help.

Of the People, For the People

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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 37924
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:10 am

Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe,world leader approvals, and police violence/misconduct!
Headline of the day: Chile votes on Assembly to rewrite Constitution from Pinochet's dictatorship
“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57590
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:10 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Sahravana wrote:that's what they said about samuel jackson and the sons of liberty


Do you mean Samuel Adams?

The first amendment protects you from the government interfering in your speech, it does not protect your from others reacting to your speech. Now I'll agree that it is improper for businesses to fire their employees for peacefully protesting, but saying they shouldn't fire people who break the law is taking it a bit far.


And the company statement was that had he just been photographed outside at the demonstration he'd still have his job.
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