by Saint Yosx » Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:52 am
by Ifreann » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:16 am
by Esheaun Stroakuss » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:18 am
by Saint Yosx » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:42 am
Ifreann wrote:I don't think it's justified to take someone who we have already neutralised as a threat to others, someone we have locked in a cell in a guarded prison, and execute that person. I don't think it matters what crimes they have done, if we can use less than lethal force to keep them from harming others then we should not use lethal force.
But even if you disagree with me, if you believe that some crimes are so abominable that the perpetrator cannot retain the right to life, then I would say that you should still oppose the death penalty. Whatever you think about the morality of executing certain people, as a practical matter it is just not possible to have a criminal justice system that never returns false convictions. If you have capital punishment, then you will, inevitably, execute innocent people. No human system can ever be perfect. We can have all the forensic science advances you could dream of and we'll still have cops, judges, and juries who are biased or corrupt or incompetent.
by Nejii » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:50 am
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:51 am
by Saint Yosx » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:54 am
Nejii wrote:Completely justified but it should only be used for extreme case criminals.
by Nejii » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:57 am
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Nobody deserves the death penalty.
by Nejii » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:58 am
by Saint Yosx » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:58 am
by Nejii » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:03 pm
Saint Yosx wrote:Nejii wrote:
Not even Ted Bundy, Dennis Rader, Andrei Chikatilo, Ed Gein? And what Hermann Goring or other Nazi figureheads?
Well Ted Bundy actually got into his crimes after being exposed to adult content and had thoughts of torturing women. I feel that its a mental problem issue and resorting to killing these people instead of treating them is quite terrible.
by Nuroblav » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:04 pm
by Saint Yosx » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:17 pm
Nejii wrote:Saint Yosx wrote:
Well Ted Bundy actually got into his crimes after being exposed to adult content and had thoughts of torturing women. I feel that its a mental problem issue and resorting to killing these people instead of treating them is quite terrible.
Hmm...
True, many serial killers are mentally ill. But many are just sick, vindictive, ill-meaning people.
Tell me, were the Nazi's "treatable"? Should the entirety of the Nazi brass have been considered "sick and in need of help"? I ask this honestly not peevishly, as I'm quite curious.
by Necroghastia » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:39 pm
Ifreann wrote:I don't think it's justified to take someone who we have already neutralised as a threat to others, someone we have locked in a cell in a guarded prison, and execute that person. I don't think it matters what crimes they have done, if we can use less than lethal force to keep them from harming others then we should not use lethal force.
But even if you disagree with me, if you believe that some crimes are so abominable that the perpetrator cannot retain the right to life, then I would say that you should still oppose the death penalty. Whatever you think about the morality of executing certain people, as a practical matter it is just not possible to have a criminal justice system that never returns false convictions. If you have capital punishment, then you will, inevitably, execute innocent people. No human system can ever be perfect. We can have all the forensic science advances you could dream of and we'll still have cops, judges, and juries who are biased or corrupt or incompetent.
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:47 pm
none of them deserve. The bad behavior I will do when I empathize with the families of the victims does not necessarily mean that my behavior is correct. human life is valuable no matter what.
by Old Tyrannia » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:49 pm
by Zul-ar » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:50 pm
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by Nejii » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:57 pm
Saint Yosx wrote:Nejii wrote:
Hmm...
True, many serial killers are mentally ill. But many are just sick, vindictive, ill-meaning people.
Tell me, were the Nazi's "treatable"? Should the entirety of the Nazi brass have been considered "sick and in need of help"? I ask this honestly not peevishly, as I'm quite curious.
Let me put it to you in this way... I get why you feel that way about Nazi's but I want you to think about it like this.( Btw I am not excusing anything the Nazi's believe in just explaining why they believed it and how it happened so don't think I support Nazism because I don't)
Germany was struggling from the after effects of world war I. They had to pay millions and billions of dollars in debt which just a couple years ago was paid off in full. The value of the Mark, the currency of Germany was little to nothing. People were struggling and were looking for a leader. Suddenly a man said that he knew why the people were struggling ( he claimed and he was dead wrong) and aid he could restore the nation to its former glory. He spoke good and hope about the German people saying how good they were. Now looking from a Jew's or American's standpoint you may say "But I would never believe that..." But so many times we hear charismatic Populist leaders that give hope and solutions to complex problems. I think many Nazis not all but most were misguided, lied to, and tricked into believing in a false and weak idea of Nationalistic pride. I
by Punished UMN » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:57 pm
by Punished UMN » Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:59 pm
Ifreann wrote:I don't think it's justified to take someone who we have already neutralised as a threat to others, someone we have locked in a cell in a guarded prison, and execute that person. I don't think it matters what crimes they have done, if we can use less than lethal force to keep them from harming others then we should not use lethal force.
But even if you disagree with me, if you believe that some crimes are so abominable that the perpetrator cannot retain the right to life, then I would say that you should still oppose the death penalty. Whatever you think about the morality of executing certain people, as a practical matter it is just not possible to have a criminal justice system that never returns false convictions. If you have capital punishment, then you will, inevitably, execute innocent people. No human system can ever be perfect. We can have all the forensic science advances you could dream of and we'll still have cops, judges, and juries who are biased or corrupt or incompetent.
by Saint Yosx » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:00 pm
Nejii wrote:Saint Yosx wrote:
Let me put it to you in this way... I get why you feel that way about Nazi's but I want you to think about it like this.( Btw I am not excusing anything the Nazi's believe in just explaining why they believed it and how it happened so don't think I support Nazism because I don't)
Germany was struggling from the after effects of world war I. They had to pay millions and billions of dollars in debt which just a couple years ago was paid off in full. The value of the Mark, the currency of Germany was little to nothing. People were struggling and were looking for a leader. Suddenly a man said that he knew why the people were struggling ( he claimed and he was dead wrong) and aid he could restore the nation to its former glory. He spoke good and hope about the German people saying how good they were. Now looking from a Jew's or American's standpoint you may say "But I would never believe that..." But so many times we hear charismatic Populist leaders that give hope and solutions to complex problems. I think many Nazis not all but most were misguided, lied to, and tricked into believing in a false and weak idea of Nationalistic pride. I
Those are fair points.
Still, there is a thing called a conscience. One has to wonder how many top tier Nazi's deep down were conflicted by their actions but brushed these conflictions aside for a twisted agenda and personal gain. Mental illness is a huge impactor in the field of killers and genocide, but even so, I doubt even half of certifiable murderers are suffering from a true mental illness. Many people use the term "ill" as a simple cover for "there are bad and evil people in the world". Schizophrenia is a mental illness, being cruel is a lack of humanity and compassion.
I'm not one of those types that believes that every single criminal should come up for the death penalty, but in my opinion, there are some people who just don't deserve to be in this world and continue to threaten and harm others. Mind you I am selective with this. Try not to envision me as some axe-wielding Judge Roy Bean. I do sympathize with those that are clinically insane and they should be locked away and properly treated. But someone who rapes and murders/tortures young children shouldn't be victimized.
by Nejii » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:03 pm
Saint Yosx wrote:Nejii wrote:
Those are fair points.
Still, there is a thing called a conscience. One has to wonder how many top tier Nazi's deep down were conflicted by their actions but brushed these conflictions aside for a twisted agenda and personal gain. Mental illness is a huge impactor in the field of killers and genocide, but even so, I doubt even half of certifiable murderers are suffering from a true mental illness. Many people use the term "ill" as a simple cover for "there are bad and evil people in the world". Schizophrenia is a mental illness, being cruel is a lack of humanity and compassion.
I'm not one of those types that believes that every single criminal should come up for the death penalty, but in my opinion, there are some people who just don't deserve to be in this world and continue to threaten and harm others. Mind you I am selective with this. Try not to envision me as some axe-wielding Judge Roy Bean. I do sympathize with those that are clinically insane and they should be locked away and properly treated. But someone who rapes and murders/tortures young children shouldn't be victimized.
True, everyone has a reason for what they believe. I respect your beliefs even though I disagree. Its nice to actually hear somebody actually respect my views!
by Esalia » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:05 pm
by Saint Yosx » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:07 pm
Nejii wrote:Saint Yosx wrote:
True, everyone has a reason for what they believe. I respect your beliefs even though I disagree. Its nice to actually hear somebody actually respect my views!
Your base sense of compassion is plausible. In truth a few people I regularly engage with on here could learn a few things from you about civil debating.
by Nejii » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:10 pm
Esalia wrote:I am completely against it for a fair few reasons, most that have already been said in this thread (e.g the potential to execute innocent people).
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