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by Audioslavia » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:19 am
by Graintfjall » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:32 am
by The Sherpa Empire » Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:59 am
by Audioslavia » Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:03 am
Strike wrote:After removing Bid B from contention (That is, taking any vote that had voted for Bid B, making it null and void, then replacing that vote with the second choice on those ballots), Bid A gained only 12 votes. That means that only 12 of the 16 voters who supported Bid B were supportive of Bid A. While this vote was not tied, if it were, then it may have gone entirely to second preferences. What you dont see in the total is the number of votes for Bid A that had Bid B as a second preference. That number very well could have been 13 or higher.
who, me? Why good gosh I would never do that I am a pure soul.The Sherpa Empire wrote:Like you didn't already swear and drink whisky?
by Kelssek » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:36 am
by Farfadillis » Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:37 pm
Kelssek wrote:I guess it shouldn't be entirely surprising that Arrow's impossibility theorem has come up twice. There are many interpretations you can take from it, including pretty odious and wrong conclusions that authoritarianism is preferable to democracy. But more relevant for the discussion - Arrow's theorem, and indeed the public opinion survey industry, highlights that lots of individual choices don't necessarily coalesce into a coherent "group" choice. What's more important in the voting system than attempting to discern some rational collective decision that exists only in a philosophical sense, is that it's easy to understand and is perceived as fair (and both those things are related to each other).
by Ethane » Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:16 pm
Farfadillis wrote:Kelssek wrote:I guess it shouldn't be entirely surprising that Arrow's impossibility theorem has come up twice. There are many interpretations you can take from it, including pretty odious and wrong conclusions that authoritarianism is preferable to democracy. But more relevant for the discussion - Arrow's theorem, and indeed the public opinion survey industry, highlights that lots of individual choices don't necessarily coalesce into a coherent "group" choice. What's more important in the voting system than attempting to discern some rational collective decision that exists only in a philosophical sense, is that it's easy to understand and is perceived as fair (and both those things are related to each other).
Just as a comment: the voting system I brought up, I brought up specifically because it avoids Arrow's impossibility theorem by virtue of not being ranked choice. On the more subjective side of it, I feel like it would more accurately reflect voters' opinions? At least with a more robust rating system, say, -5 to +5. With how ranked choice voting works, preferring one bid over another by a hair's breadth is the same as having a very strong preference.
by Sarzonia » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:02 pm
by Ceni » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:44 pm
Ethane wrote:The idea that a couple of people with strong opinions (-5s) on a bid would outweigh those who preferred one bid (+3) but also didn't hate the other bid (+2), possibly in the majority, highlights a flaw in this system. If a majority of people prefer a certain bid, then that bid should undoubtedly win. Thus I don't think this system would work outside a -1, 1 binary (approve or disapprove?).
South Covello wrote:Let's further suppose that of the 10 who voted for the Bizarro one, nine of them had Re-open bids next because they didn't want a n00b hosted World Cup, but preferred the bizarre format to no World Cup host at all. This means that of the 27 voters, 18 preferred no host at all to the n00b bid and 16 preferred it to the bizarre format bid, yet we're eliminating Re-open bids under Banija's proposal which means one of those bids is going to win despite a majority of voters being opposed to it to the point where they'd rather there be no host at all.
by Farfadillis » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:23 pm
by Kelssek » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:54 pm
What's more important in the voting system than attempting to discern some rational collective decision that exists only in a philosophical sense, is that it's easy to understand and is perceived as fair (and both those things are related to each other).
by Farfadillis » Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:02 am
Kelssek wrote:I totally understand the belief in the existence of a group opinion that can be discerned through some properly devised electoral system. I can tell you all about my change of views about the importance and feasibility of electoral reform some other time. But I say again...What's more important in the voting system than attempting to discern some rational collective decision that exists only in a philosophical sense, is that it's easy to understand and is perceived as fair (and both those things are related to each other).
And we were trying to deal with the issue of what to do in case of a tie. I do not believe there is a problem with the existing system of voting on host bids and I would not support a change to this kind of x-point scale. This isn't something that was on the table so let's not start looking for nails to hammer.
by The Sarian » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:45 am
by Sarzonia » Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:09 pm
by Drawkland » Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:12 pm
Bluecliff wrote:Around how long in RL time is it usually between the end of the Baptism of Fire and the start of the World Cup?
United Dalaran wrote:Goddammit, comrade. I just knew that someday some wild, capitalist, imperialist interstellar empire will swallow our country.CN on the RMB wrote:drawkland's leader has survived so many assassination attempts that I am fairly certain he is fidel castro in disguise
by Starblaydia » Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:23 am
by Strike » Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:17 am
Starblaydia wrote:Short and sweet suggestion:
- Count up the WCC votes. If a bid wins, pick that one, as per usual.
- If it's deadlocked, figure out how the EWCC voted. If a bid wins, pick that one.
- If it's still deadlocked, the Prez votes. That bid wins.
Slightly longer version: currently the EWCC only does BoF votes because they are 'trusted' to pick the right option for newbies and their all-important first tournament. Trust them with breaking WC host voting ties before the deadlock is even mentioned as part of the normal process. If they still can't decide for us, then we trust El Prezidente to be a sensible person who can decide in the unlikely event of us collectively being unable to.
by Sarzonia » Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:08 am
by The Plough Islands » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:47 pm
by Sarzonia » Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:51 pm
The Plough Islands wrote:The only problem I can see with that issue is that El Presidente may in fact also be a bidder for the World Cup; presumably the authority to Make A Decision then falls on someone else?
by Starblaydia » Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:08 pm
Sarzonia wrote:The Plough Islands wrote:The only problem I can see with that issue is that El Presidente may in fact also be a bidder for the World Cup; presumably the authority to Make A Decision then falls on someone else?
The constitution would most likely mandate that the Vice President then have a tiebreaking vote, then it would devolve onto the next highest vote-getters in the election.
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