Indiana AG: LGBT Parents should be stripped of Rights

[Turelisa-]

It isn't morally wrong but to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." Homosexual desires are not sinful but homosexual acts are sinful. I am not trying to offend your sensibilities when I say this: it is a very tough teaching but I sincerely believe that it echos the will of God.

Thank you.

So as long as someone doesn’t act on said desires and lives a life completely alone it’s ok to you?

It would be a sacrifice. Jesus, when starving during the forty days and nights in the wilderness, refused to accept Satan's offer to turn some stones into bread for him to relieve his hunger.

[Necroghastia]

No man, no.

I am very hurt that you think this. Everyone, including people who experience same-sex attraction are valuable for being themselves. You make each day matter because you're you.

We like you for being you. That's sincere. Speaking as a Christian, the last thing we want is to lose you. We know it's not easy. But we love you, we really do love you, and most importantly God loves you.

I find it ironic there are homosexuals who, on one hand, preach disingenuously about love and tolerance and their demand for it, and on the other, subject people who refuse to endorse their position with hatred.

Congratulations! You have discovered the paradox of tolerance!

[Necroghastia]

Well, of course a term operating as a catch-all term of hatred towards a particular group will evolve to the point where it covers all hatred towards a particular group.

This is like claiming that "racism is too broad because it covers moral opposition to black people". That's literally what the word is for.



Boo hoo, getting called out on your hatred means you can't be hateful anymore. Cry me a river.

What on earth are you taking about? There's nothing morally wrong about being black. Race is an immutable condition of being.

Just like being gay.

Harry S Truman said true criticism is engendered by respect. If I oppose homosexuality from a moral viewpoint, it's because I have respect for humanity.

Bullshit. What's respectful in the slightest about your "moral opposition?"

[Johto-]

Yes. And?

What made you go "what on earth are you talking about?"



Harry S Truman is not infallible, and I do not care if you think you have respect for humanity.

You apparently conflate racism with both homophobia and moral opposition to homosexuality.

A racist thinks a black person is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his racial features and hates black people as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified in violence against black people, which is perversion.
A homophobic person thinks a homosexual is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his homosexual behaviour, and hates homosexuals as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified as violence against homosexuals, which is perversion.
A Christian thinks homosexual behaviour is an existential threat to the homosexual person and criticises their behaviour, which is perversion, because he is a Christian who hates perversion.

I'm a Christian and part of the LGBT+ and fucking proud. Fight me.

[Turelisa-]

You apparently conflate racism with both homophobia and moral opposition to homosexuality.

A racist thinks a black person is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his racial features and hates black people as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified in violence against black people, which is perversion.
A homophobic person thinks a homosexual is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his homosexual behaviour, and hates homosexuals as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified as violence against homosexuals, which is perversion.
A Christian thinks homosexual behaviour is an existential threat to the homosexual person and criticises their behaviour, which is perversion, because he is a Christian who hates perversion.

I'm a Christian and part of the LGBT+ and fucking proud. Fight me.

Pride is sin.

[Geneviev]

I'm a Christian and part of the LGBT+ and fucking proud. Fight me.

Pride is sin.

Yes. Being LGBT isn't, though. Nor is being Christian.

[Johto-]

I'm a Christian and part of the LGBT+ and fucking proud. Fight me.

Pride is sin.

All sins, past, present, and future, have been forgiven by God when he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross.

Also, the 7 Deadly Sins are made up Catholic bullshit.

[San Lumen]

So as long as someone doesn’t act on said desires and lives a life completely alone it’s ok to you?

It would be a sacrifice. Jesus, when starving during the forty days and nights in the wilderness, refused to accept Satan's offer to turn some stones into bread for him to relieve his hunger.

And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?

[The New California Republic]

From your comments in this thread, only a few limited forms of it.

Homophobia is a term which has become too broadened, to cover not only violence - physical assault and intentional emotional distress - but also moral opposition to homosexuality, so as to silence criticism and shut down debate.

No it hasn't.

I find it ironic there are homosexuals who, on one hand, preach disingenuously about love and tolerance and their demand for it, and on the other, subject people who refuse to endorse their position with hatred.

The hatred more often than not goes the other way tbh...

[Sundiata]

It isn't morally wrong but to quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church, homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." Homosexual desires are not sinful but homosexual acts are sinful. I am not trying to offend your sensibilities when I say this: it is a very tough teaching but I sincerely believe that it echos the will of God.

Thank you.

So as long as someone doesn’t act on said desires and lives a life completely alone it’s ok to you?

Not completely alone, no. Stop that.

[Turelisa-]

It would be a sacrifice. Jesus, when starving during the forty days and nights in the wilderness, refused to accept Satan's offer to turn some stones into bread for him to relieve his hunger.

And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?

There are people who have forsaken homosexuality and declare they're happier and more contented than before .

https://youtu.be/ckrxPyFrPdo

[The New California Republic]

And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?

There are people who have forsaken homosexuality and declare they're happier and more contented than before .

https://youtu.be/ckrxPyFrPdo

Clicked the link, laughed at it, immediately closed it. Want to try again buddy?

[Geneviev]

And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?

There are people who have forsaken homosexuality and declare they're happier and more contented than before .

https://youtu.be/ckrxPyFrPdo

Okay, but why doesn't God make it possible for everyone to change? It's not guaranteed to work.

[The New California Republic]

There are people who have forsaken homosexuality and declare they're happier and more contented than before .

https://youtu.be/ckrxPyFrPdo

Okay, but why doesn't God make it possible for everyone to change? It's not guaranteed to work.

And to be fair the vid guy is prob totes lying. I bet if you watched him like a hawk you'd find that he was meeting his bear after that interview.

[Vassenor]

And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?

There are people who have forsaken homosexuality and declare they're happier and more contented than before .

https://youtu.be/ckrxPyFrPdo

>Focus On The Family

[Esalia]

I see functionally little difference between the homophobe and the Christian. If either of them get their way, gay people will be oppressed. That the Christian wraps up their hatred in patronising """care""" for the gay person changes nothing.

No man, no.

I am very hurt that you think this. Everyone, including people who experience same-sex attraction are valuable for being themselves. You make each day matter because you're you.

We like you for being you. That's sincere. Speaking as a Christian, the last thing we want is to lose you. We know it's not easy. But we love you, we really do love you, and most importantly God loves you.

(I should clarify up here: by Christian in my other post, I'm specifically talking about Christians with a "moral opposition" to homosexuality, and are willing to write that into law if they could. There's almost certainly Christian denominations that fall outside of that (i.e ones that aren't homophobic and don't wish to implement anything homophobic).)

You might genuinely not hate gay people (you at least say you don't). But, at the end of the day, an action done is an action done: a smashed window is still a smashed window, regardless of if it was broken on accident or on purpose. Anti-gay policies and beliefs are anti-gay policies and beliefs, regardless of if the holder is an out-and-out homophobe who genuinely hates gay people, or someone whose actions come from a place of claimed love.

I'm not necessarily calling you homophobic/anti-gay, nor your proposals/beliefs homophobic/anti-gay (though I'm also not saying they're not homophobic/anti-gay). Simply that it doesn't change the end result to me whether something anti-gay is motivated by a claimed love of gay people or an open hatred of gay people (or any other possible motivation): it's still homophobic.

[Sundiata]

Pride is sin.

All sins, past, present, and future, have been forgiven by God when he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross.

Also, the 7 Deadly Sins are made up Catholic bullshit.

Come on man, that's a really mean spirited thing to say. You're free to disagree with the teachings of my church but you don't have to be so rude, please.

[Esalia]

Okay, but why doesn't God make it possible for everyone to change? It's not guaranteed to work.

And to be fair the vid guy is prob totes lying. I bet if you watched him like a hawk you'd find that he was meeting his bear after that interview.

There's also the fact that, if we're allowing mostly-unverifiable anecdotes as a point (we can't exactly tell whether someone has genuinely "renounced homosexuality" and are genuinely happier for it, just by a potentially-biased video), there's a million and one anecdotes of gay people (or people of any sexuality other than straight) who are much happier now that they're no longer pretending that they're straight.

[San Lumen]

And you reasonably expect any Lgbt person to do that? Plus why should they have to?

There are people who have forsaken homosexuality and declare they're happier and more contented than before .

https://youtu.be/ckrxPyFrPdo

Sorry but your going to have to do better than that. Plus you didn’t address my question.

[Atheris]

All sins, past, present, and future, have been forgiven by God when he sent his son Jesus to die on the cross.

Also, the 7 Deadly Sins are made up Catholic bullshit.

Come on man, that's a really mean spirited thing to say. You're free to disagree with the teachings of my church but you don't have to be so rude, please.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm personally fine with a lot of things the Church does but the teachings of the Cardinal Sins alongside indulgences are blatant attempts at population control and extortion in a pseudo-cult manner that I hold no sympathy for.

[Kungsu]

Yes. And?

What made you go "what on earth are you talking about?"



Harry S Truman is not infallible, and I do not care if you think you have respect for humanity.

You apparently conflate racism with both homophobia and moral opposition to homosexuality.

A racist thinks a black person is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his racial features and hates black people as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified in violence against black people, which is perversion.
A homophobic person thinks a homosexual is inferior based on his emotive reaction to his homosexual behaviour, and hates homosexuals as an existential threat. His hatred is objectified as violence against homosexuals, which is perversion.
A Christian thinks homosexual behaviour is an existential threat to the homosexual person and criticises their behaviour, which is perversion, because he is a Christian who hates perversion.

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." -Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)

"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." -John 8:7 (KJV)

"There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?" -James 4:12 (KJV)

At no point, WHATSOEVER, does Christ condone casting judgment on others for their sins. Rather, He goes out of His way to express that we are NOT to do so. All this Holier-Than-Thou bullshit is completely and totally against Christ's doctrine, plain and simple. If people are committing sins, let God be the judge of that. It is not your place to force all to be Christian with fire and sword. Period. Christ's doctrine is one of love and tolerance, and forcing others to confirm has never been Christ's way. Whether your neighbor commits a sin or not is none of your concern.

There is nothing Christian about suppressing others for their beliefs. There never will be.

[Geneviev]

Okay, but why doesn't God make it possible for everyone to change? It's not guaranteed to work.

And to be fair the vid guy is prob totes lying. I bet if you watched him like a hawk you'd find that he was meeting his bear after that interview.

I don't know enough to assume that about him. But there are enough people who do have to lie.

[Sundiata]

Come on man, that's a really mean spirited thing to say. You're free to disagree with the teachings of my church but you don't have to be so rude, please.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm personally fine with a lot of things the Church does but the teachings of the Cardinal Sins alongside indulgences are blatant attempts at population control and extortion in a pseudo-cult manner that I hold no sympathy for.

Ok, I would like to talk to you more about the history and teachings of the church that don't relate to the OP but this thread is not the place. Please see me in the Christian Discussion Thread if you have any further questions.

God love you.

[Kernen]

No it hasn't. Im still at a loss to understand why two men or woman being in love and getting married and possibly adopting children is such a big deal to people. How does it affect you in any way?

It's not really a "big deal" per say. It's just that morally speaking, a child should be raised by a mother and father. Homosexuals aren't bad people or even poor parents with respect to physical or material concerns but material concerns aren't the end-all-be-all to people with concerns like mine. There's a larger agenda we're working on here.

An antipathy against homosexuals if ever there was any. I don't appreciate homophobia being used as a catchall phrase, but since society elected to use it thusly, I gotta say how homophobic that is.

[Kungsu]

No it hasn't. Im still at a loss to understand why two men or woman being in love and getting married and possibly adopting children is such a big deal to people. How does it affect you in any way?

It's not really a "big deal" per say. It's just that morally speaking, a child should be raised by a mother and father. Homosexuals aren't bad people or even poor parents with respect to physical or material concerns but material concerns aren't the end-all-be-all to people with concerns like mine. There's a larger agenda we're working on here.

Surely children growing up in orphanages, on the streets, or in bad/abusive households would be worse then, no? Why is there a great cry to fight homosexual parentage but barely a whisper on other issues that are more destructive for a child's upbringing? At least a household with homosexual parents offers some level of stability.