by The Marlborough » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:59 am
by -Ocelot- » Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:23 am
by Destyntine » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:10 am
by Chan Island » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:39 am
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by Chan Island » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:47 am
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by The Marlborough » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:42 am
-Ocelot- wrote:I want my Fantasy settings to be completely detached from real life medieval societies and be 100% fantastical. I dislike Low Fantasy because it feels underwhelming as a Fantasy genre and non-believable as an alt-history genre.
Some of my favorite Fantasy settings are that of Forgotten Realms, Magic the Gathering and World of Warcraft.
This is something I do agree with. I generally dislike it when God(s) are directly influenced and popping up all over the place. The occasional story is fine but I don't want Wrath of the Titans all the time. I like some mystery with the divine.Destyntine wrote:I love fantasy, elves, orcs, wizards, y'know.. I just don't like any immortal godly beings who are practically invincible. I can understand a dragon with tougher skin or a sea leviathan that towers over a skyscraper but having a demon lord who is from another dimension who cannot be killed with traditional weaponry while standing slightly taller than a human is a little too much for me.
by The Marlborough » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:00 am
That is quite interesting. The fantasy world I'm constructing is somewhat similar albeit canonically faes, nymphs etc do exist but are rare and a supernatural experience. Some traditional fantasy monsters are also present such as ogres but they are full blown beasts as opposed to human like giants. I guess you can say it straddles the middle.Chan Island wrote:I love writing low fantasy. One of my current work in progresses is a fantasy where the only magic is rumoured (or is used as a label for more advanced technology that the speaker doesn't understand). No goblins or orks or elves or so on - but again, one group of people in the story firmly believes in the existence of fairies, demons and spirits, even though we never actually see these things interact. That story is in many ways an exploration on belief (as well as a ton of other things, which all good stories are), and having it be in the fantasy genre gives a good stage to go look.
I would say this is true of poorly constructed magical systems, especially overpowered ones, but not all. For example, Brandon Sanderson has a properly constructed magical system that isn't overpowered so it makes sense why people would still build fortifications. Others such as the Dragon Age setting show that mages often are hounded by horrible demons and other forces, which can limit their ability to be useful. In the Witcher hypothetically there could be a mage capable of destroying an entire castle, but it would be incredibly hard and dangerous and complicated and require power that not even the most powerful mage known to exist possessed. It depends but yeah, some high fantasy magic systems are pretty inconsistent.One thing that gets me when reading fantasy is how rarely writers actually delve into the implications of their magic systems. I think this is the big critical flaw at the moment in high fantasy, because spending that time working on the nitty gritty is hard. For example, why do people in fantasy still build castles out of rock when there are wizards running around who can lift up mountains? Why do cities not have drills on how to handle dragon attacks?
Now that is a very interesting idea.I've got a project where everyone is a wizard- and their society as a result has to change with it. For example, they have next to no actual manufacturing because they can summon whatever they like.
I think this a mix of the reader being able to connect more easily as well as being more aware that humanity *isn't* this amazing perfect species, but I do think there should be more nuance in general with the classical fantasy races. Which, to be fair, is starting to emerge more. Though I some blame Tolkien for this, that's unfair as a lot of elves in the LOTR lore were far from perfect and subject to jealousy, rage, greed etc. It's just Elrond, Legolas, and Galadriel are the most prominent elves that people remember and generally display quite admirable traits with Elrond and Galadriel being among the wisest beings in the world to boot.Also, another problem that gets me in high fantasy is this assumption that humans are like the "default". You know, you get the short, strong and industrious dwarves, the wise and lithe elves, the brutish and violent orcs ... while humans are just kinda in the middle- yet also somehow always the most widespread despite having no actual advantages over everyone else. It would be interesting if there was a story that was just like 'yeah this is high fantasy and oh by the way humans are by far the strongest or smartest or wisest of everyone.'
by The Marlborough » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:02 am
Chan Island wrote:One other final, separate point- fantasy generally has a problem where it's all copied from Tolkien.
I mean, don't get me wrong, JRR Tolkien's books are a masterpiece of literature, compellingly written and give a window to a fascinating world... but there are lots of other stories that can be told. And our assumptions about what an 'orc' or 'elf' or 'dwarf' are, are far too heavily reliant on how Tolkien envisioned them.
The biggest bug bear for me is elves. The idea of the 'elf' is a thing that crops up in a ton of different mythologies, each with different interpretations of them. Tolkien was a world class academic on the mythologies of Germanic cultures, and many of his works are obviously influenced by them- but they aren't the only interpretation. Norse mythology for example has the idea of elves being malevolent, Romania had them as mischievous. Why don't more writers draw on this inspiration? Why do elves (or some stand-in for them just with a different name, looking at you Sarah J Maas) always in fantasy have to be clearly inspired by what one writer once decided they should be for his story?
by The Marlborough » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:13 pm
by Luminesa » Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:29 pm
by The Marlborough » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:37 pm
Luminesa wrote:I really like historical fantasy, and I think it’s because of the books I read as a kid. Most fantasy novels I read were Middle Fantasy, with Magic based in real-life events like the Crusades, certain battles, or even fantasy novels based on Macbeth. This inspired my love of Magical Realism, as well, and I hope to read more Magical Realism to get a feel of what I want to emulate and hold for my own writing. I guess then Middle Fantasy would be my favorite, because it balances the wonders of a fantasy universe with the mundane, normal experiences of people.
by Luminesa » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:07 pm
The Marlborough wrote:Luminesa wrote:I really like historical fantasy, and I think it’s because of the books I read as a kid. Most fantasy novels I read were Middle Fantasy, with Magic based in real-life events like the Crusades, certain battles, or even fantasy novels based on Macbeth. This inspired my love of Magical Realism, as well, and I hope to read more Magical Realism to get a feel of what I want to emulate and hold for my own writing. I guess then Middle Fantasy would be my favorite, because it balances the wonders of a fantasy universe with the mundane, normal experiences of people.
Magical realism is an interesting genre and one that I think fantasy writers should draw more from. Focusing on the mundane is something I can get behind as well. Despite a lot of my conflicts in my own stories being political, I do feel like other aspects of life are ignored. History is more than just wars and diplomacy after all. If anyone knows who Daniel Greene is, the story he is working on is inspired by the Age of Discovery and the, well, discovery of new lands, peoples, and creatures. If he ever finishes it, it would be interesting to read.
In my own writing I try to incorporate POV characters that are not soldiers or nobles but other things. Natural philosophers, doctors, artists, priests, bankers etc.
by Luminesa » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:04 pm
Mustardaise wrote:I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Disco Elysium yet.
by The Marlborough » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:23 pm
Mustardaise wrote:I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Disco Elysium yet.
by Luminesa » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:54 pm
The Marlborough wrote:Mustardaise wrote:I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Disco Elysium yet.
I hadn't heard of it but I just looked it up and it sounds quite interesting. Six thousand years of history is a lot to flesh out but damn kudos to them. Also being set in a more modern setting is also really cool. I am an unashamed fan of Shadowrun.
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