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French teacher decapitated for showing pictures of Muhammad

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Aureumterra III
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French teacher decapitated for showing pictures of Muhammad

Postby Aureumterra III » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:45 pm

https://apnews.com/article/paris-france ... b2aec4fb37
PARIS (AP) — For the second time in three weeks, terror struck France, this time with the gruesome beheading of a history teacher in a street in a Paris suburb. The suspected attacker was shot and killed by police.

French President Emmanuel Macron denounced what he called an “Islamist terrorist attack” and urged the nation to stand united against extremism. The teacher had discussed caricatures of Islam’s Prophet Muhammad with his class, authorities said.

The French anti-terrorism prosecutor opened an investigation for murder with a suspected terrorist motive. Four people, one a minor, were detained hours later, the office of anti-terror prosecutor Jean-Francois Ricard said without elaborating. Police typically fan out to find family and friends of potential suspects in terror cases.

Macron visited the school where the teacher worked in the town of Conflans-Saint-Honorine and met with staff after the slaying. An Associated Press reporter saw three ambulances at the scene, and heavily armed police surrounding the area and police vans lining leafy nearby streets.

“One of our compatriots was murdered today because he taught ... the freedom of expression, the freedom to believe or not believe,” Macron said.

He said the attack shouldn’t divide France because that’s what the extremists want. “We must stand all together as citizens,” he said.

The incident came as Macron’s government works on a bill to address Islamist radicals who authorities claim are creating a parallel society outside the values of the French Republic. France has the largest Muslim population in Western Europe with up to 5 million members, and Islam is the country’s No. 2 religion.

A police official said the suspect, armed with a knife and an airsoft gun — which fires plastic pellets — was shot dead about 600 meters (yards) from where the male teacher was killed after he failed to respond to orders to put down his arms, and acted in a threatening manner.

The teacher had received threats after opening a discussion “for a debate” about the caricatures about 10 days ago, the police official told The Associated Press. The parent of a student had filed a complaint against the teacher, another police official said, adding that the suspected killer did not have a child at the school.

An ID card was found at the scene but police were verifying the identity, the police official said. French media reported that the suspect was an 18-year-old Chechen, born in Moscow. That information could not be immediately confirmed.

France has seen occasional violence involving its Chechen community in recent months, in the Dijon region, the Mediterranean city of Nice, and the western town of Saint-Dizier, believed linked to local criminal activity.

It was not known what link, if any, the attacker might have with the teacher or whether he had accomplices. Police were fanning out on searches of homes and potential family and friends of the man in question, the police official said.

The two officials could not be named because they were not authorized to discuss ongoing investigations.

“We didn’t see this coming,” Conflans resident Remi Tell, who as a child had attended the Bois D’Aulne middle school, said on CNews TV station. He described the town as peaceful.

It was the second terrorism-related incident since the opening of an ongoing trial for the January 2015 newsroom massacre at the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo, which had published caricatures of the prophet of Islam.

As the trial started, the paper republished caricatures of the prophet to underscore the right of freedom of expression. Quickly, a young man from Pakistan was arrested after stabbing two people with a meat cleaver outside the newspaper’s former offices. They did not suffer threatening injuries.The 18-year-old told police he was upset about the publication of the caricatures.

In a video posted recently on social media, a man describing himself as a father at the school said the teacher who was slain had recently shown an offensive image of a man and told students it was “the prophet of the Muslims.” Before showing the images, the teacher asked Muslim children to leave the room because he planned to show something shocking, the man said.

“What was the message he wanted to send these children? ... Why does a history teacher behave this way in front of 13-year-olds?” the man asked. He called on other angry parents to contact him, and relay the message.


Not much to add, was the teacher wrong in showing the pictures of Muhammad?

I have no words… it’s sad that the country of Napoleon and De Gaulle has come to this. France is the country that pioneered the concept of liberalism, religious freedom, and secularism, but radical Muslims seek to undermine the Republic’s values. I don’t think the teacher did anything wrong considering he explicitly told Muslim students to leave the room if it was going to make them feel uncomfortable. What’s even worse is that the usual suspects are defending this.

The attacks began when the left wing satirical atheist magazine Charlie Hebdo published caricatures of Muhammad, this is the third attack in three weeks, but this one is arguably the most brutal one.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:51 pm

They're more mad about a picture of Mohammed being shown than they are that a man was murdered in cold blood. Some of the parents at that school are clearly fucked in the head if they take more offense to drawings than to an actual killing by some psycho with a machete.

Charlie Hebdo, you better get the Mohammed cartoons going again. I know some may say its time to call for calm, but it needs to be made clear that France doesn't need to change just cause some religious weirdos think their religion is the truth and everyone else in a country they moved to has to follow it.
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Resilient Acceleration
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:55 pm

Yeah this is the single worst aspect present in the general Muslim community: cultist overzealousy against any kind of """"blasphemy"""". Throughout 2016-2017, I was bored listening to the constant, murderous, holocaustic tirades espoused by almost all mosque imams, school teachers, and community leaders against the Chinese-Christian Jakarta governor candidate, Ahok, after he was accused of blasphemy. The case, which has literally no benefit whatsoever but appeasing the childish and pathetic ego of the consevative Muslims in the population (which is like 30-40%), arguably destroyed Indonesia's history of pluralism and send us to the path of dangerous polarization.

Obviously, this is far worse. The teacher is killed because he did his job: teaching. Violent radicalism has no place in secular France, and shouldn't have any place anywhere in the planet.
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Postby Anglo-Francia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:08 pm

I'm a Muslim, and I think the way this teacher was treated was way, way too extreme. Of course, being a Muslim, I'm against depictions of Prophet Muhammad being produced, but I'm not going to judge you if you do it (as long as it's respectful and not demeaning) since it's your choice. I'm not going to decapitate you over it.
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Postby Picairn » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:10 pm

Looks like we need to ramp up the War on Domestic Terror.
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Postby Free Ravensburg » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:11 pm

So it begins again

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Postby Rebel Fardelshufflestein » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:12 pm

I feel like Muslims are starting to make France part of their own. Not in Government, but in Culture. Of course, they have the right, which I respect, but, like everyone, I don't like the Fact VERY FEW, not all, are not reminding themselves this isn't North Africa or Syria, it's France.
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Rebel Fardelshufflestein
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Postby Rebel Fardelshufflestein » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:13 pm

I just forgot to switch accounts.
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Postby Cordel One » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:13 pm

People who use religion as an excuse to commit atrocities generally try to be as dramatic about it as possible. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, 9/11, and for what?
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Tranzoria
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Postby Tranzoria » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:18 pm

Cordel One wrote:People who use religion as an excuse to commit atrocities generally try to be as dramatic about it as possible. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, 9/11, and for what?

Pour la vengeance, and للإنتقام.
In other words, some feel because of things someone did in the past they have the right to do it to them, in the case of France and North Africa+Middle east.
Of course, that isn't what it is about, it's about Religious and Cultural Interference, not Revenge.
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Postby RiderSyl » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:18 pm

Oh, the big bad 18-year-old could take on a teacher, but once the police were on him, the coward pulled a suicide-by-cop with an airsoft gun. Terrorists are only strong preying on the weak.
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Postby Sarderia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:19 pm

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Postby Dolgo » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:20 pm

It's disrespectful to many Muslims to depict Muhammad in pictures. I don't really see why one would want to anyway, aside from intentionally provoking Muslims. I think it is irresponsible to do so, as it would very likely harm fragile relations with the Muslim community.

That being said, being offended doesn't excuse one from committing murder, and offending religious feelings is not enough to warrant decapitation. I recommend France reinstate the death penalty, at the very least for murder. The terrorist (the one who committed the decapitation) should be sentenced to the guillotine, provided they are found guilty in a court of law. France must make it clear that assaults against its secular state will not be tolerated.

As a preventive measure, France should take religious harmony very seriously and enact laws that make it illegal to promote religious disharmony (on either side), similar to what Singapore successfully does. It should also take the threat of Islamic terrorism far more seriously, any ethnic/religious geographic concentration should be broken up and distributed evenly across the population. This will help "dilute" radicalization. At the same time, enact laws that prohibit religions from spreading subversive and anti-government rhetoric, along with any religious group promoting disharmony. Non-citizens promoting disharmony should be deported and anti-social religious organizations should be banned.

Vive la France!
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Postby Rusozak » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:21 pm

What I want to know is how an attacker was able to decapitate someone in a suburban street. It sounds time consuming if he wasn't a master ninja or had a freaking battle axe or something.
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Tranzoria
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Postby Tranzoria » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:22 pm

Dolgo wrote:It's disrespectful to many Muslims to depict Muhammad in pictures. I don't really see why one would want to anyway, aside from intentionally provoking Muslims. I think it is irresponsible to do so, as it would very likely harm fragile relations with the Muslim community.

That being said, being offended doesn't excuse one from committing murder, and offending religious feelings is not enough to warrant decapitation. I recommend France reinstate the death penalty, at the very least for murder. The terrorist (the one who committed the decapitation) should be sentenced to the guillotine, provided they are found guilty in a court of law. France must make it clear that assaults against its secular state will not be tolerated.

As a preventive measure, France should take religious harmony very seriously and enact laws that make it illegal to promote religious disharmony (on either side), similar to what Singapore successfully does. It should also take the threat of Islamic terrorism far more seriously, any ethnic/religious geographic concentration should be broken up and distributed evenly across the population. This will help "dilute" radicalization. At the same time, enact laws that prohibit religions from spreading subversive and anti-government rhetoric, along with any religious group promoting disharmony. Non-citizens promoting disharmony should be deported and anti-social religious organizations should be banned.

Vive la France!

Thing is, France's many Religions have things some do not want. So combining Law with Religion, especially in France, is a very bad move. Sure, the Arabians can do it, but because they ONLY have one religion.
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Tranzoria
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Postby Tranzoria » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:25 pm

Rusozak wrote:What I want to know is how an attacker was able to decapitate someone in a suburban street. It sounds time consuming if he wasn't a master ninja or had a freaking battle axe or something.

You encountered a Wild Religious Extremist!
You chose "Run Away!"
You cannot Run Away!
Wild Religious Extremist used "Decapitation"!
It was way TOO effective!
All jokes aside, I guess the it was a Jumpscare or Drive By.
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:25 pm

Dolgo wrote:It's disrespectful to many Muslims to depict Muhammad in pictures. I don't really see why one would want to anyway, aside from intentionally provoking Muslims. I think it is irresponsible to do so, as it would very likely harm fragile relations with the Muslim community.

...

As a preventive measure, France should take religious harmony very seriously and enact laws that make it illegal to promote religious disharmony (on either side), similar to what Singapore successfully does.
Vive la France!


That, however, would mean the alteration of the very foundation of the modern French nation. There's a reason why blasphemy against Christianity, etc. isn't punished in France. Religion, all religion, conform to the nation and not the other way around. I mean, if they want to do it, sure, but I don't think they will.
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Postby The Giant Space Wyrm » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:26 pm

The man asked students that identified with the Muslim faith to step outside knowing it would offend them to show such imagery, I don't feel any disharmony taking place.
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Postby Tranzoria » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:28 pm

The Giant Space Wyrm wrote:The man asked students that identified with the Muslim faith to step outside knowing it would offend them to show such imagery, I don't feel any disharmony taking place.

Well, that still didn't work, did it? One kid told the Parents what happened, the Parents told other Parents, one of those Parents filed a Complaint that spread the news that made it's way to a Religious Extremist who decided to take matters in his own, cowardly hands.
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Tranzoria
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Postby Tranzoria » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:29 pm

Tranzoria wrote:
The Giant Space Wyrm wrote:The man asked students that identified with the Muslim faith to step outside knowing it would offend them to show such imagery, I don't feel any disharmony taking place.

Well, that still didn't work, did it? One kid told the Parents what happened, the Parents told other Parents, one of those Parents filed a Complaint that spread the news that made it's way to a Religious Extremist who decided to take matters in his own, cowardly hands.

Aslo, not trying to cause argument.
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:29 pm

Aureumterra III wrote:I don’t think the teacher did anything wrong considering he explicitly told Muslim students to leave the room if it was going to make them feel uncomfortable.


That might have caused even more offense, though clearly the intent was to be less offensive.

Now I'm going to flame you in such a foul and personal way that it will make you literally cry. How could I even know those personal things about you? You won't just want me warned, you'll want my post removed. But if it's going to make you feel uncomfortable then don't open the spoiler:

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Tranzoria
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Postby Tranzoria » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:32 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Aureumterra III wrote:I don’t think the teacher did anything wrong considering he explicitly told Muslim students to leave the room if it was going to make them feel uncomfortable.


That might have caused even more offense, though clearly the intent was to be less offensive.

Now I'm going to flame you in such a foul and personal way that it will make you literally cry. How could I even know those personal things about you? You won't just want me warned, you'll want my post removed. But if it's going to make you feel uncomfortable then don't open the spoiler:


*Cries.*
Also, remember, some people may go straight to reporting you without reading it. Just don't want the Mods involved here.
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Postby Picairn » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:34 pm

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:Now I'm going to flame you in such a foul and personal way that it will make you literally cry. How could I even know those personal things about you? You won't just want me warned, you'll want my post removed. But if it's going to make you feel uncomfortable then don't open the spoiler:


F. You. For lying to me. I feel cheated out of a colorful insult. /heavy sarcasm mods pls don't descend on me thanks
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Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:38 pm

The Giant Space Wyrm wrote:The man asked students that identified with the Muslim faith to step outside knowing it would offend them to show such imagery, I don't feel any disharmony taking place.


Physically separating some kids from their class, does not feel like 'disharmony' to you?

Bear in mind that sending kids out while the class goes on is usually a punishment for disrupting the class. It's not always effective as a punishment: I knew one kid who didn't just prefer a desk in the corridor outside the Principal's office, he was quite happy studying that way though he could never concentrate in class. But even if banishment is NOT effective as a punishment, it's still effective to reduce chaos in the classroom. These kids were treated like a disruptive element and that may have caused offense even to those who don't care either way about pictures of Muhammed.
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:40 pm

Jesus. I hope the person or people who did it are caught and put away for the rest of their pathetic lives.

You don't get to kill someone for offending your religion. I don't care if they wiped their ass on a holy text, just get them fired for that sort of thing, you don't get to hurt people over it.
Last edited by Albrenia on Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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