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by Socrathens » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:19 pm
by Insaanistan » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:21 pm
Atheris wrote:Insaanistan wrote:
Considering most Israelis are of mainly or entirely Eastern and Central European descent and like Gabot look visibly European, and Cleopatra would likely have looked at least moderately brown-skinned, and the history of Egyptian history being whitewashed, I’d say the anger is justifiable.
Well, the Ptolemaic dynasty wasn't natively Middle Eastern, either. They were from Greece. You know, Eastern Europe.
by Insaanistan » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:22 pm
Socrathens wrote:Cleopatra was the daughter of a brother-sister marriage. So her parents were definitely of the same genetic stock.
Her parents were the son and daughter of one of the Ptolemies and his GREEK Mistress, Irene.
So that's inbred Macedonian + Greek beauty (with blonde hair - back when some Greeks still had blonde hair).
How the **** do people consider any of that "a woman of colour"? Tanned, maybe - I don't know whether she liked to sunbathe after or before bathing in she-asses' milk...
Not a fan of whitewashing (annoyed by it, usually). But this is going equally wrong in the other direction. This is painting everything non-western black.
History is NOT a coloring book. Enough already.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:23 pm
Insaanistan wrote:Socrathens wrote:Cleopatra was the daughter of a brother-sister marriage. So her parents were definitely of the same genetic stock.
Her parents were the son and daughter of one of the Ptolemies and his GREEK Mistress, Irene.
So that's inbred Macedonian + Greek beauty (with blonde hair - back when some Greeks still had blonde hair).
How the **** do people consider any of that "a woman of colour"? Tanned, maybe - I don't know whether she liked to sunbathe after or before bathing in she-asses' milk...
Not a fan of whitewashing (annoyed by it, usually). But this is going equally wrong in the other direction. This is painting everything non-western black.
History is NOT a coloring book. Enough already.
Was Cleopatra black? Definitely not, at most she was 1/8 Nubian and that’s a maybe.
Was Cleopatra white? Well, part.
Did Cleopatra really look white? No, not really.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
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by Rusozak » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:23 pm
by Insaanistan » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:24 pm
Kyundao wrote:Sorra and Olrisa wrote:I'm not very learned on that region of the world. But, don't most Israelis that appear distinctly 'Israeli' when compared with their neighbors have a significant amount of European admixture in their ancestry? And can reasonably pass, be accepted as white people? Sephardic and Ashkenazi in particular. I don't know much about Jews that never left the Middle East to begin with. But I would imagine that they look more like Arabs and North Africans.
Just because a Jewish person is from Eastern Europe doesn't mean that Jewish person is racially European. Genetically the Jewish people as a whole are West Asian; their Y-DNA haplogroups are not European in origin and most of their mtDNA haplogroups aren't European either. On top of this, a lot of West Asians can easily pass off as Southern European.
by The Marlborough » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:27 pm
Kyundao wrote:Sorra and Olrisa wrote:I'm not very learned on that region of the world. But, don't most Israelis that appear distinctly 'Israeli' when compared with their neighbors have a significant amount of European admixture in their ancestry? And can reasonably pass, be accepted as white people? Sephardic and Ashkenazi in particular. I don't know much about Jews that never left the Middle East to begin with. But I would imagine that they look more like Arabs and North Africans.
Just because a Jewish person is from Eastern Europe doesn't mean that Jewish person is racially European. Genetically the Jewish people as a whole are West Asian; their Y-DNA haplogroups are not European in origin and most of their mtDNA haplogroups aren't European either. On top of this, a lot of West Asians can easily pass off as Southern European.
by Socrathens » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:29 pm
Insaanistan wrote:Kyundao wrote:
Just because a Jewish person is from Eastern Europe doesn't mean that Jewish person is racially European. Genetically the Jewish people as a whole are West Asian; their Y-DNA haplogroups are not European in origin and most of their mtDNA haplogroups aren't European either. On top of this, a lot of West Asians can easily pass off as Southern European.
Many do. I wouldn’t want a pale skinned Arab playing Cleopatra. An Egyptian, Berber or relatively light-skinned Ethiopian should play her.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:33 pm
Insaanistan wrote:I heard about this, and no, an Israeli should not play an Egyptian queen.
As for what the ancient Egyptians looked like, well, that would be a lot like asking what an Arab looks like.
However, to say “Ancient Egyptian were white” would be false.
While yes, there were periods when ethnic Greeks ruled Egypt, occasional intermixing with black and brown Egyptians and life under the hot Egyptian sun had made them much darker than their Aegean counterparts. Egyptians were varying mixes of Abyssinian, Nubian/Kushite, Greek and Italian, and Coptic ancestry. Now, it’s that plus Arab ancestry, occasionally some Turkish ancestry, and in some relatively rare cases, Hausa ancestry.
Basically, if you want to portray an Egyptian correctly, use an actual Egyptian, or your average Arab, or even an Ethiopian or Sudanese.
But not an Israeli. Definitely not an Israeli.
by The Marlborough » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:33 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:34 pm
Insaanistan wrote:Atheris wrote:A person of Middle Eastern descent is playing a woman (kind of) from the Middle East! The outrage! The horror!
Considering most Israelis are of mainly or entirely Eastern and Central European descent and like Gabot look visibly European, and Cleopatra would likely have looked at least moderately brown-skinned, and the history of Egyptian history being whitewashed, I’d say the anger is justifiable.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:34 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:36 pm
Socrathens wrote:Cleopatra was the daughter of a brother-sister marriage. So her parents were definitely of the same genetic stock.
Her parents were the son and daughter of one of the Ptolemies and his GREEK Mistress, Irene.
So that's inbred Macedonian + Greek beauty (with blonde hair - back when some Greeks still had blonde hair).
How the **** do people consider any of that "a woman of colour"? Tanned, maybe - I don't know whether she liked to sunbathe after or before bathing in she-asses' milk...
Not a fan of whitewashing (annoyed by it, usually). But this is going equally wrong in the other direction. This is painting everything non-western black.
History is NOT a coloring book. Enough already.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:37 pm
Insaanistan wrote:Kyundao wrote:
Just because a Jewish person is from Eastern Europe doesn't mean that Jewish person is racially European. Genetically the Jewish people as a whole are West Asian; their Y-DNA haplogroups are not European in origin and most of their mtDNA haplogroups aren't European either. On top of this, a lot of West Asians can easily pass off as Southern European.
Many do. I wouldn’t want a pale skinned Arab playing Cleopatra. An Egyptian, Berber or relatively light-skinned Ethiopian should play her.
by Autumn Wind » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:42 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:43 pm
Autumn Wind wrote:Weren’t the Ptolemies notorious for inbreeding?
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:43 pm
Autumn Wind wrote:Weren’t the Ptolemies notorious for inbreeding?
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Borderlands of Rojava » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:45 pm
by Atheris » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:46 pm
Autumn Wind wrote:Weren’t the Ptolemies notorious for inbreeding?
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:46 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Egyptian Pharoahs must have been pretty messed up if their parents were siblings. How did the royal legacy even last with all that inbreeding?
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Atheris » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:47 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Egyptian Pharoahs must have been pretty messed up if their parents were siblings. How did the royal legacy even last with all that inbreeding?
by Costa Fierro » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:48 pm
Insaanistan wrote:I heard about this, and no, an Israeli should not play an Egyptian queen.
As for what the ancient Egyptians looked like, well, that would be a lot like asking what an Arab looks like.
However, to say “Ancient Egyptian were white” would be false.
While yes, there were periods when ethnic Greeks ruled Egypt, occasional intermixing with black and brown Egyptians and life under the hot Egyptian sun had made them much darker than their Aegean counterparts. Egyptians were varying mixes of Abyssinian, Nubian/Kushite, Greek and Italian, and Coptic ancestry. Now, it’s that plus Arab ancestry, occasionally some Turkish ancestry, and in some relatively rare cases, Hausa ancestry.
Basically, if you want to portray an Egyptian correctly, use an actual Egyptian, or your average Arab, or even an Ethiopian or Sudanese.
But not an Israeli. Definitely not an Israeli.
by Rusozak » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:49 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Egyptian Pharoahs must have been pretty messed up if their parents were siblings. How did the royal legacy even last with all that inbreeding?
It didn’t last. With subsequent marriages between siblings, it weakened entirely. Why do you think the Ptolemies were able to take hold of it?
by Atheris » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:49 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:50 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
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