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by VlaRiSsiA » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:51 pm
tl;dr - after nuclear war, corrupt oligarchical hellhole emerges. ogre leads revolution, kills oligarchs after civil war, improves quality of life with progressive social policies and industrialization. couple foreign invasions, assassination attempts, personal losses, and rebellions later, ogre goes psychotic and kills anyone he’s sus of. then a fascist midget invades and kills third of the population, ogre manages to defeat him but goes completely bonkers.
now we got a hyper-totalitarian hyper-militaristic industrial hive-mind quasi-slave state that the ogre 70 years ago would be horrified at
by Cloud-Cuckoo-Land » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:52 pm
-Ra- wrote:Go to a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen. Many of these organizations are run by private individuals or firms, which is better than the government anyway.
by Kowani » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:52 pm
VlaRiSsiA wrote:Socialist here.
That said, I have a message to my fellow socialists ranting at their screen looking at this thread: Sorry if you are offended comrade, but this thread has every right to exist no matter if you agree or disagree with it. It’s a thing called freedom of expression and no entity should be able to restrict that. You can debate the topic of the thread, but please try not to be toxic. People should be able to say whatever they want so long it isn’t threatening the liberty or safety of others.
Now I’m just going to roll back and let everyone here discuss their political beliefs. Or maybe get sucked into a capitalism vs socialism debate against my will.
by Matatic and The Principality of Surkis » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:53 pm
by Eurasies » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:53 pm
VlaRiSsiA wrote:Socialist here.
That said, I have a message to my fellow socialists ranting at their screen looking at this thread: Sorry if you are offended comrade, but this thread has every right to exist no matter if you agree or disagree with it. It’s a thing called freedom of expression and no entity should be able to restrict that. You can debate the topic of the thread, but please try not to be toxic. People should be able to say whatever they want so long it isn’t threatening the liberty or safety of others.
Now I’m just going to roll back and let everyone here discuss their political beliefs. Or maybe get sucked into a capitalism vs socialism debate against my will.
by VlaRiSsiA » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:54 pm
I’m directing my message to the inevitable swarm of toxic nations. It’s not happening yet, but always threads get jackedKowani wrote:VlaRiSsiA wrote:Socialist here.
That said, I have a message to my fellow socialists ranting at their screen looking at this thread: Sorry if you are offended comrade, but this thread has every right to exist no matter if you agree or disagree with it. It’s a thing called freedom of expression and no entity should be able to restrict that. You can debate the topic of the thread, but please try not to be toxic. People should be able to say whatever they want so long it isn’t threatening the liberty or safety of others.
Now I’m just going to roll back and let everyone here discuss their political beliefs. Or maybe get sucked into a capitalism vs socialism debate against my will.
Interesting how you have "a message for your fellow socialists" yet it's directed at a position nobody took.
Hm yes this is not suspicious at all
tl;dr - after nuclear war, corrupt oligarchical hellhole emerges. ogre leads revolution, kills oligarchs after civil war, improves quality of life with progressive social policies and industrialization. couple foreign invasions, assassination attempts, personal losses, and rebellions later, ogre goes psychotic and kills anyone he’s sus of. then a fascist midget invades and kills third of the population, ogre manages to defeat him but goes completely bonkers.
now we got a hyper-totalitarian hyper-militaristic industrial hive-mind quasi-slave state that the ogre 70 years ago would be horrified at
by -Ra- » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:54 pm
Cloud-Cuckoo-Land wrote:-Ra- wrote:Go to a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen. Many of these organizations are run by private individuals or firms, which is better than the government anyway.
North America could be like that, but other places have welfare programs for homeless and impoverished people. They are not perfect, obviously. But so are not private-run charities.
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by Sanghyeok » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:55 pm
Kowani wrote:VlaRiSsiA wrote:Socialist here.
That said, I have a message to my fellow socialists ranting at their screen looking at this thread: Sorry if you are offended comrade, but this thread has every right to exist no matter if you agree or disagree with it. It’s a thing called freedom of expression and no entity should be able to restrict that. You can debate the topic of the thread, but please try not to be toxic. People should be able to say whatever they want so long it isn’t threatening the liberty or safety of others.
Now I’m just going to roll back and let everyone here discuss their political beliefs. Or maybe get sucked into a capitalism vs socialism debate against my will.
Interesting how you have "a message for your fellow socialists" yet it's directed at a position nobody took.
Hm yes this is not suspicious at all
どんな時も、赤旗の眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister
by All Wild Things » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:56 pm
-Ra- wrote:All Wild Things wrote:So how come it's ok for us all to share a road but not a gas pipeline?
And how come it's okay to provide universal healthcare, but not to provide healthy food that would reduce the need for that healthcare?
We kinda do already. Go to a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen. Many of these organizations are run by private individuals or firms, which is better than the government anyway.
And none of this has to do with the workers owning the means of production.
by Kowani » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:57 pm
by -Ra- » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:57 pm
New haven america wrote:Capitalism: "Universal healthcare and social safety nets are evil because they steal money from the pockets of hard workers and socialism would never work because humans are inherently too selfish!"
Ok, so how do we deal with people who can't afford healthcare or food?
Capitalism: "IDFK. Charity or something?"
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by Cloud-Cuckoo-Land » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:58 pm
by -Ra- » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:59 pm
Cloud-Cuckoo-Land wrote:-Ra- wrote:I'm from the UK...
US, Canada and UK are still only 3 countries matched up against approximately 190 other countries. Unless you can specifically vouch that all of the remaining countries have private-run charities which work as you are asserting, you aren't really making a point.
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by The Marlborough » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:00 pm
Cloud-Cuckoo-Land wrote:-Ra- wrote:I'm from the UK...
US, Canada and UK are still only 3 countries matched up against approximately 190 other countries. Unless you can specifically vouch that all of the remaining countries have private-run charities which work as you are asserting, you aren't really making a point.
by Kowani » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:00 pm
-Ra- wrote:Cloud-Cuckoo-Land wrote:US, Canada and UK are still only 3 countries matched up against approximately 190 other countries. Unless you can specifically vouch that all of the remaining countries have private-run charities which work as you are asserting, you aren't really making a point.
Neither are you. It happens that the US, Canada and the UK are the most prosperous countries in the world. They're also capitalist in nature.
by New haven america » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:00 pm
-Ra- wrote:New haven america wrote:Capitalism: "Universal healthcare and social safety nets are evil because they steal money from the pockets of hard workers and socialism would never work because humans are inherently too selfish!"
Ok, so how do we deal with people who can't afford healthcare or food?
Capitalism: "IDFK. Charity or something?"
1. Nobody's saying that you have to get rid of universal healthcare and food. 2. Markets are the best allocator of goods. 3. That's a fact of economics and the reason why socialist countries fail. However, a certain amount of government intervention in the economy is good. So sometimes the government should step in, but for most cases it's unnecessary.
Quite ironic that healthcare and food tend to be the shittiest in socialist countries.
by Phaenix » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:01 pm
by The Marlborough » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:02 pm
-Ra- wrote:Cloud-Cuckoo-Land wrote:US, Canada and UK are still only 3 countries matched up against approximately 190 other countries. Unless you can specifically vouch that all of the remaining countries have private-run charities which work as you are asserting, you aren't really making a point.
Neither are you. It happens that the US, Canada and the UK are the most prosperous countries in the world. They're also capitalist in nature.
by -Ra- » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:03 pm
New haven america wrote:-Ra- wrote:1. Nobody's saying that you have to get rid of universal healthcare and food. 2. Markets are the best allocator of goods. 3. That's a fact of economics and the reason why socialist countries fail. However, a certain amount of government intervention in the economy is good. So sometimes the government should step in, but for most cases it's unnecessary.
Quite ironic that healthcare and food tend to be the shittiest in socialist countries.
1. Those are socialist policies and this is an anti-socialism thread, so...
2. They are not.
3. A capitalist system of resource management says its way is the best and everything else is wrong. Who could've guessed?
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by Cloud-Cuckoo-Land » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:03 pm
-Ra- wrote:Cloud-Cuckoo-Land wrote:US, Canada and UK are still only 3 countries matched up against approximately 190 other countries. Unless you can specifically vouch that all of the remaining countries have private-run charities which work as you are asserting, you aren't really making a point.
Neither are you. It happens that the US, Canada and the UK are the most prosperous countries in the world. They're also capitalist in nature.
by Phaenix » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:04 pm
-Ra- wrote:New haven america wrote:1. Those are socialist policies and this is an anti-socialism thread, so...
2. They are not.
3. A capitalist system of resource management says its way is the best and everything else is wrong. Who could've guessed?
1. They are not socialist policies.
2. They are.
3. Economics is not capitalism. This is like saying that science prefers vaccines, therefore science is biased towards vaccines and against anti-vaxxers. Socialism is the anti-vaxx movement of economics.
by Eurasies » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:04 pm
by Phaenix » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:04 pm
by -Ra- » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:06 pm
Cloud-Cuckoo-Land wrote:-Ra- wrote:Neither are you. It happens that the US, Canada and the UK are the most prosperous countries in the world. They're also capitalist in nature.
Prosperity is not a highest priority, though. It is essential to have a working economy, sure, but sufficient is enough, or even better than superior, if other things are also taken into account. You can say prosperity is of highest importance to you and you have every right to do so. But most people don't really care about numbers but just the ability to live their life in peace. As long as an average person can manage, their economy can be inferior to some other country's economy.
You can live off 200K dollars annually. Just because someone else earns 300K does not automatically mean they are better in every single regard than you are.
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