by Geneviev » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:02 pm
by Shin-Mutsu » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:04 pm
大新陸奥帝国
Great Shin-Mutsu Empire
Corporatism, class segregation, and complete absence of social welfare, ruled by a nearly psychopathic coffee drinking Oomiya twin
by SatoSere » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:07 pm
by South Odreria 2 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:09 pm
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says
by Geneviev » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:15 pm
SatoSere wrote:I personally would put truth above happiness. We don't live in Brave New World after all
by Feline Goetland » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:46 pm
Geneviev wrote:People will always say that they want to believe only in true things, but sometimes the truth will make them unhappy. Consider these examples:
1. Person A has been isolated from society for the last year and is entirely unaware of the current pandemic. They have been perfectly happy being alone and studying without knowing about what is happening in the world around them. Since they are isolating themselves already for different reasons, they are unlikely to be harmed by being ignorant of the pandemic. But if they do find out, it will cause them significant psychological distress (like the rest of us).
2. Person B believes in a religion that, for the sake of discussion, can be assumed to be false. But the religion makes Person B happy, gives their life purpose, and has helped them confront the suffering in their life. It also encourages them to be selfless and serve others. Being told their religion is false and seeing proof that it is false would not only make them unhappy, but would make it difficult for them to cope with everyday life.
There are more examples like this, but they are the first I thought of. So, in these situations, is it really better to know the truth? Or should we also consider what makes people happy?
In my opinion, there are situations in which the truth is too unpleasant to force on people. In the case of Person A, they should be told about the pandemic in case they choose to leave their hypothetical isolation during the pandemic. But Person B is not harmed by their faith at all, and to prove it wrong would be unethical in that case. But what say you, NSG?
by Rainbow Forest » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:48 pm
Geneviev wrote:People will always say that they want to believe only in true things, but sometimes the truth will make them unhappy. Consider these examples:
1. Person A has been isolated from society for the last year and is entirely unaware of the current pandemic. They have been perfectly happy being alone and studying without knowing about what is happening in the world around them. Since they are isolating themselves already for different reasons, they are unlikely to be harmed by being ignorant of the pandemic. But if they do find out, it will cause them significant psychological distress (like the rest of us).
2. Person B believes in a religion that, for the sake of discussion, can be assumed to be false. But the religion makes Person B happy, gives their life purpose, and has helped them confront the suffering in their life. It also encourages them to be selfless and serve others. Being told their religion is false and seeing proof that it is false would not only make them unhappy, but would make it difficult for them to cope with everyday life.
There are more examples like this, but they are the first I thought of. So, in these situations, is it really better to know the truth? Or should we also consider what makes people happy?
In my opinion, there are situations in which the truth is too unpleasant to force on people. In the case of Person A, they should be told about the pandemic in case they choose to leave their hypothetical isolation during the pandemic. But Person B is not harmed by their faith at all, and to prove it wrong would be unethical in that case. But what say you, NSG?
by Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:55 pm
by Neanderthaland » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:04 pm
by Feline Goetland » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:14 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:It is better to be a safely deluded but genuinely whimsical, happy-go-lucky fellow with a true heartfelt smile on their face at all times... then to be a grim-faced, “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!” person unnecessarily aware of the true horror of things
Truth doesn’t matter
Safety and happiness are what counts. Now if you need to know a few truths to be safe, then that’s fine. However, the more you know, the less you can be protected from depressing truths.
by Feline Goetland » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:15 pm
Neanderthaland wrote:To lie to someone to preserve their happiness is to infantilize them. It is to reject their dignity, reason, and responsibility, because you think you know better than they do. You may think you're doing them a favor. You're actually belittling them. It shows contempt for them. I won't say there's never any reason to do this, but just know that it's a very disrespectful thing to do. And if they hate you for it when they find out, they have every right to.
To lie to yourself to preserve your happiness, is to infantilize yourself. It is to reject all claim to dignity, reason, and responsibility, and hold yourself in contempt. There is a reason why cults attempt to break you down before they indoctrinate you. To lie to yourself is to be broken.
by Beatitas » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:18 pm
by Bombadil » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:21 pm
Feline Goetland wrote:Neanderthaland wrote:To lie to someone to preserve their happiness is to infantilize them. It is to reject their dignity, reason, and responsibility, because you think you know better than they do. You may think you're doing them a favor. You're actually belittling them. It shows contempt for them. I won't say there's never any reason to do this, but just know that it's a very disrespectful thing to do. And if they hate you for it when they find out, they have every right to.
To lie to yourself to preserve your happiness, is to infantilize yourself. It is to reject all claim to dignity, reason, and responsibility, and hold yourself in contempt. There is a reason why cults attempt to break you down before they indoctrinate you. To lie to yourself is to be broken.
What do you think should be done about actual children?
by Socialist States of Ludistan » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:23 pm
by Feline Goetland » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:24 pm
Bombadil wrote:Feline Goetland wrote:
What do you think should be done about actual children?
Look, if we didn't invent Santa we wouldn't have a good two months of relatively obedient children.. but yeah, lying is essentially a form of control, and white lies are more often to protect our feelings than those we're lying to.
Sam Harris has a short book called Lying, which posits that as a society, if we stopped the simple act of telling white lies, we'd all be better off.
by South Odreria 2 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:31 pm
Bombadil wrote:Feline Goetland wrote:
What do you think should be done about actual children?
Look, if we didn't invent Santa we wouldn't have a good two months of relatively obedient children.. but yeah, lying is essentially a form of control, and white lies are more often to protect our feelings than those we're lying to.
Sam Harris has a short book called Lying, which posits that as a society, if we stopped the simple act of telling white lies, we'd all be better off.
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says
by Feline Goetland » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:34 pm
South Odreria 2 wrote:Bombadil wrote:
Look, if we didn't invent Santa we wouldn't have a good two months of relatively obedient children.. but yeah, lying is essentially a form of control, and white lies are more often to protect our feelings than those we're lying to.
Sam Harris has a short book called Lying, which posits that as a society, if we stopped the simple act of telling white lies, we'd all be better off.
Please don't take Santa away from us I read a graphic novel about him and ninjas like ten years ago and I remember it being really cool.
by Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:35 pm
by Feline Goetland » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:36 pm
by SatoSere » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:38 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:It is better to be a safely deluded but genuinely whimsical, happy-go-lucky fellow with a true heartfelt smile on their face at all times... then to be a grim-faced, “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!” person unnecessarily aware of the true horror of things
Truth doesn’t matter
Safety and happiness are what counts. Now if you need to know a few truths to be safe, then that’s fine. However, the more you know, the less you can be protected from depressing truths.
by South Odreria 2 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:38 pm
Feline Goetland wrote:South Odreria 2 wrote:Please don't take Santa away from us I read a graphic novel about him and ninjas like ten years ago and I remember it being really cool.
You don’t need to believe that Harry Potter exists to enjoy Harry Potter. Same for a book about Santa. We are talking about actual false beliefs, not fiction.
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says
by Knica Eas » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:40 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:It is better to be a safely deluded but genuinely whimsical, happy-go-lucky fellow with a true heartfelt smile on their face at all times... then to be a grim-faced, “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!” person unnecessarily aware of the true horror of things
Truth doesn’t matter
Safety and happiness are what counts. Now if you need to know a few truths to be safe, then that’s fine. However, the more you know, the less you can be protected from depressing truths.
by Infected Mushroom » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:40 pm
SatoSere wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:It is better to be a safely deluded but genuinely whimsical, happy-go-lucky fellow with a true heartfelt smile on their face at all times... then to be a grim-faced, “YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!” person unnecessarily aware of the true horror of things
Truth doesn’t matter
Safety and happiness are what counts. Now if you need to know a few truths to be safe, then that’s fine. However, the more you know, the less you can be protected from depressing truths.
Ah yes, you think Brave New World is an instruction manual.
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