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Embassy of The East Pacific

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Reploid Productions
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Reploid Productions » Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:18 am

Daytime to Night wrote:Ok Karen

Knock that off. You can attack the argument without the flamebaity Karen meme.
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Sedgistan
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Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:16 am

JURISDICTIONS wrote:Author, WA, failed resolution to commend AMOM during the Rule 4 writers strike, and the single-handed end of the 3WB (3rd Wall bloc).

:blink: I can't let this historical innacuracy stand. The end of the 3WB was this realisation R4 wasn't going away, which led to Topid's Condemn Unknown passing after a couple of months of us locking the SC down.

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Yokiria
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Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Yokiria » Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:54 am

Daytime to Night wrote:KoGB get a bad rep for issues with past members but are very much their own region now

Still proscribed in Osiris. Still mishandled a serious OOC matter post-Don. Call it "hearsay" all you want. We aren't in court.

Daytime to Night wrote:Thaecia annoy a few holier-than-thou UCRs because of their recruitment efforts - but why would a feeder care about that anyway?

You just answered your own question. This isn't about their recruitment. This is about their questionable community.

Daytime to Night wrote:Not sure why everyone in Osiris is cheerleading on the hate against one of their allies
Daytime to Night wrote:Ok Karen

Let me kill two birds with one stone here. If you consistently treat an ally like shit (for example, calling them a "Karen"), then you don't get to act betrayed when that ally finally has enough.
Last edited by Yokiria on Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:12 am

Yokiria wrote:Let me kill two birds with one stone here. If you consistently treat an ally like shit (for example, calling them a "Karen"), then you don't get to act betrayed when that ally finally has enough.


D2N isn't even a member of TEP. Meanwhile, literally the FA Vizier of TEP's treaty ally Osiris:

Arkadia Universalis wrote:While it is always disheartening to see any alliance dissolve, especially such a long-lived one, Osiris understands and respects this decision. We would also like to reaffirm that we stand with the West Pacific and its people as allies. We cannot say what the future holds, but we admire the West for taking action to protect its own people.
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:20 am

How are Thaecia and KoGB bad? KoBG has weeded out its bad eggs, and Thaecia has a stand against fascism and OOC bad.
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Wymondham
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Wymondham » Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:22 am

Honeydewistania wrote:How are Thaecia and KoGB bad? KoBG has weeded out its bad eggs, and Thaecia has a stand against fascism and OOC bad.

I can shoot you the reasons on discord - can't say on-site
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Daytime to Night
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Postby Daytime to Night » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:15 am

Yokiria wrote:If you consistently treat an ally like shit (for example, calling them a "Karen"), then you don't get to act betrayed when that ally finally has enough.


I haven't seen TEP treat Osiris like shit at all let alone consistently, all I've seen is one of TEPs senior members quietly remind them that they're treaty allies too (in the TWP topic) - apparently that needed reminding.

On the other hand, their ally Osiris seems to have got the attack dogs out, and are going far beyond the TEP/TWP matter in their attacks. It's very odd. TEP has a right to form its own relationships and build its power through agreements like this and its rather telling about who wants the region to thrive and who would rather keep it as the troubled Pacific.
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Xoriet
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Xoriet » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:53 am

Yokiria wrote:So genuinely, I don't see how you can say TEP "made painstaking efforts to vet its FA contacts" and then cry foul that people believe that. TEP vetted KoGB and Thaecia and those regions passed through the vetting? Your region didn't see anything wrong? ... Okay then.

TEP talked to members of other regions about it asking questions as to whether or not a region was a good idea. If they moved forward with Thaecia and KoGB, it's because nobody gave them evidence of anything significant at the time. I told them about several regions personally that were scratched off the list. Thaecia I had little information on, if any, and KoGB I was retired at the time so all I could repeat was what I've heard from people who were around. If people who have the information in log form want to share it with TEP, they might as well do so.

NSGP is earning a reputation for attacking regions with most people doing the attacking having not actually seen anything relevant to the problem, and it's not TEP's fault that this is the case and it starts to wear on its credibility. This trend is making it more difficult for regions to actually invest trust in NSGP's words on issues. On a recent case, TEP was alerted that a region which attended a festival with them had a great deal of fascist content and TEP and Thaecia investigated the region in question to discover Discord content that affirmed the region was extremely questionable.

People will listen to a credible source, but this sudden trend of people doing a lot of yelling about a region's badness with nothing to back it up is just hurting the ability of our community to warn people about truly dangerous people/regions. It also doesn't help that the minute they question this, people proceed to yell about them being OOC questionable themselves. Sometimes this is correct, other times it serves to do nothing other than reinforce the image of OOC attacks based on hearsay.

This comes across as a tendency to group bully people. The word I hear used is "gunboat diplomacy", but all it's really done is make people more stubborn. Word of mouth that this is what happens spreads and just makes NSGP that much less credible when they approach someone. Even if the issue is legitimate, the response to bringing it up is increasingly more frequently ending up skeptical. Some regions absolutely deserve their bad reputation while others simply end up labeled as bad because they dared to question word of mouth.

tl;dr: The community really needs to work on approaching things in a manner that involves less public bullying and more private diplomacy. For all the times it has worked, forcing people to bow to public pressure accomplishes far less than handling issues reasonably in private.
Last edited by Xoriet on Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Marconian State
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Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Marconian State » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:07 am

Wymondham wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:How are Thaecia and KoGB bad? KoBG has weeded out its bad eggs, and Thaecia has a stand against fascism and OOC bad.

I can shoot you the reasons on discord - can't say on-site

All due respect, isn't this part of the issue? You say you can give the reasons to someone through Discord but not publicly or on-site, and it seems to simply fuel a region's negative reputation with no actual backing behind it. If there is anything of substance that either of these regions have not answered for or worked past yet, would it not be better to put it out publicly so that other members of the community would be able to form an educated opinion, and these regions could properly address the grievances?

I understand your position as a journalist, Wym, and I don't mean to assume, but if you're working on some big exposé, wouldn't it be better to not add fuel to the fire in the meantime?

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Boda
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Boda » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:18 am

The Marconian State wrote:
Wymondham wrote:I can shoot you the reasons on discord - can't say on-site

All due respect, isn't this part of the issue? You say you can give the reasons to someone through Discord but not publicly or on-site, and it seems to simply fuel a region's negative reputation with no actual backing behind it. If there is anything of substance that either of these regions have not answered for or worked past yet, would it not be better to put it out publicly so that other members of the community would be able to form an educated opinion, and these regions could properly address the grievances?

I understand your position as a journalist, Wym, and I don't mean to assume, but if you're working on some big exposé, wouldn't it be better to not add fuel to the fire in the meantime?

It's against ToS to do so onsite
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The Marconian State
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Marconian State » Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:35 am

Boda wrote:
The Marconian State wrote:All due respect, isn't this part of the issue? You say you can give the reasons to someone through Discord but not publicly or on-site, and it seems to simply fuel a region's negative reputation with no actual backing behind it. If there is anything of substance that either of these regions have not answered for or worked past yet, would it not be better to put it out publicly so that other members of the community would be able to form an educated opinion, and these regions could properly address the grievances?

I understand your position as a journalist, Wym, and I don't mean to assume, but if you're working on some big exposé, wouldn't it be better to not add fuel to the fire in the meantime?

It's against ToS to do so onsite

I'll take your word for it, but isn't Wym's above statement then on the edge of or skirting around the ToS, then? And in that case, the forum post was entirely unnecessary and a simple private telegram to Honeydewistania was adequate. I don't say this with the intent to backseat mod, but with frustration at the lack of public evidence that still manages to sour the reputation of regions simply based on whispers and opinions.

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Yokiria
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Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Yokiria » Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:58 am

Daytime to Night wrote:On the other hand, their ally Osiris seems to have got the attack dogs out
I appreciate the implication that I count as multiple attack dogs.

Daytime to Night wrote:I haven't seen TEP treat Osiris like shit at all

Because you're in no position to see it.

Xoriet wrote:The community really needs to work on approaching things in a manner that involves less public bullying and more private diplomacy. For all the times it has worked, forcing people to bow to public pressure accomplishes far less than handling issues reasonably in private.

You may be right in general, but you're off the mark in this specific case. Private diplomacy was tried. Our former Pharaoh was laughed out of the room. Our diplomat was mocked and mistreated. I may mouth off a lot, but Osiris is my home and if the OFO wanted me to shut up re: TEP, then I'd shut up. But here I am, still talking.
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JURISDICTIONS
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Founded: Nov 03, 2008
Democratic Socialists

Postby JURISDICTIONS » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:26 pm

Yokiria wrote:
JURISDICTIONS wrote:I retired on July 31. That region is where I always envisioned it going, if I got my way, and I did.


I am sure you're coming from a place of honesty, Juris, but KGB's mishandling of a serious OOC matter post-Don still has me doubtful on their improvement, and your testimony isn't enough to move me on that. I wish it was. The region is still proscribed by Osiris, as well, so I can't go in and see the legitimacy of these changes myself.


That's too bad that you can't see the progress that has been made. I am unaware of this other "post-don" issue. But, Don was ousted. He is gone, forever. He will never be let back in, ever. Why? Because he prosecuted secret wars and brought our region to the brink of destruction. We don't want him back.

Most of our members as current, were never even around when he was around. There is a new generation now. Hence, my leave. Its time to let them have the region. I don't need to be there to see it continue anymore.

No region is perfect. Certainly, you must admit, it would be difficult to change minds, without you all even giving us a chance.

Juris Lancaster

PS. Seriously, Don is the type of person that loves the fact that he's the "official villain" now. He will be the boogyman, as long as you let him be the boogyman.
You can call me "Juris" for short. Also, you don't have to type my nation name in all caps either.
Last edited by Max Barry on Mon Jan 01, 0001 12:01 am. Edited 000000000000 times in total.
Takaram wrote:Irony. Rule 4 prevents a repeal based on Rule 4 violations, meaning that Rule 4 does not comply with Rule 4. It should be struck down.
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JURISDICTIONS
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Democratic Socialists

Postby JURISDICTIONS » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:39 pm

Sedgistan wrote:
JURISDICTIONS wrote:Author, WA, failed resolution to commend AMOM during the Rule 4 writers strike, and the single-handed end of the 3WB (3rd Wall bloc).

:blink: I can't let this historical innacuracy stand. The end of the 3WB was this realisation R4 wasn't going away, which led to Topid's Condemn Unknown passing after a couple of months of us locking the SC down.


I was there, do you not remember my resolution? The one to Commend AMOM, that was voted down in the (at the time) largest downvote in SC history (I really had wished I had a badge for that)... AMOM was upset, and even released a statement.

He lost a commendation, as a leader, because of his stubbornness, and that I proved those good resolutions could be written with R4 in place.

I forced the 3WB into a choice: Either approve of their leader and disavow their principles, or, Uphold their principles and disapprove of their leader.
I, therefore, claim responsibility in where the WA is today. I worked really hard on that resolution. I got it to quorum during the writer's block, and in the end enabled better resolutions from the Security Council.
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Last edited by Max Barry on Mon Jan 01, 0001 12:01 am. Edited 000000000000 times in total.
Takaram wrote:Irony. Rule 4 prevents a repeal based on Rule 4 violations, meaning that Rule 4 does not comply with Rule 4. It should be struck down.
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Varanius
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Founded: Sep 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:02 am

The Marconian State wrote:I'll take your word for it, but isn't Wym's above statement then on the edge of or skirting around the ToS, then? And in that case, the forum post was entirely unnecessary and a simple private telegram to Honeydewistania was adequate. I don't say this with the intent to backseat mod, but with frustration at the lack of public evidence that still manages to sour the reputation of regions simply based on whispers and opinions.

Your complaint is that he made a post on the forums stating that he’d tell someone on discord? You’re grasping at straws
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The Marconian State
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Marconian State » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:19 am

Varanius wrote:Your complaint is that he made a post on the forums stating that he’d tell someone on discord? You’re grasping at straws

That's actually not my complaint at all. My complaint is that it contributes to the rumor mill, and the rumor mill in this case is very bad to have, such that I must argue against its perpetuation. It devolves any possible real concerns into the likeness of grammar school drama, whispers within the classroom without addressing the subject at hand. "Ooh, did you hear about Jimmy? I can't tell you in class because we'll get in trouble with the teacher if we do, text me about it if you want to know." And Jimmy can't even fully grasp the multitude of rumors circulating about him because very few want to actually address him directly on any perceived issues, and would rather want to continue spreading the rumors, God knows why. And this same issue will occur with other students, like Melissa and Hernandez, with the same group of students being at fault for circulating these rumors.

Wym is not singularly at fault here. In fact, I'd argue their hands are cleaner than most involved in the perpetuation of the rumor mill. But if people will really take issue with the allies and embassies The East Pacific chooses to make by saying "Really? Them? And Melissa, too? What kind of friends are they making?" without presenting any reasoning to their concerns, how could anyone take those concerns seriously?

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Varanius
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Founded: Sep 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:00 am

The Marconian State wrote:
Varanius wrote:Your complaint is that he made a post on the forums stating that he’d tell someone on discord? You’re grasping at straws

That's actually not my complaint at all. My complaint is that it contributes to the rumor mill, and the rumor mill in this case is very bad to have, such that I must argue against its perpetuation. It devolves any possible real concerns into the likeness of grammar school drama, whispers within the classroom without addressing the subject at hand. "Ooh, did you hear about Jimmy? I can't tell you in class because we'll get in trouble with the teacher if we do, text me about it if you want to know." And Jimmy can't even fully grasp the multitude of rumors circulating about him because very few want to actually address him directly on any perceived issues, and would rather want to continue spreading the rumors, God knows why. And this same issue will occur with other students, like Melissa and Hernandez, with the same group of students being at fault for circulating these rumors.

The “rumor mill” isn’t the be all end all of public opinion you seem to think it is. However, it is an important thing to consider and inquire about for any region considering relations with regions which have been discussed in the “rumor mill”. More like a warning that you might want to learn more about a region, specifically, why GP seems to think it’s “rumor” worthy. And in many cases (like that of Enadia, NWE, and Layem) it is well deserved.

The Marconian State wrote: Wym is not singularly at fault here. In fact, I'd argue their hands are cleaner than most involved in the perpetuation of the rumor mill. But if people will really take issue with the allies and embassies The East Pacific chooses to make by saying "Really? Them? And Melissa, too? What kind of friends are they making?" without presenting any reasoning to their concerns, how could anyone take those concerns seriously?
If TEP, a GCR, is incapable of investigating these troubling “rumors” as you’d call them, then that’s the fault of TEP, not the responsibility of other individuals to inform TEP about the regions they choose to form a block with, especially when TEP seems to not care about this enough to bother to investigate these claims before forming a block
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Libertanny
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Postby Libertanny » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:30 am

Image



THE POEM OF THE GREATS
The East Pacific - Thaecia Treaty




The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of The Confederated East Pacific is pleased to announce that, after carefully weighted and thorough deliberations, a Treaty of Friendship, Mutual Defense and Cultural Co-Development has been ratified with Thaecia. The Treaty, known as "The Poem of The Greats" ensures Mutual Security, Cultural Exchange and Recognition between the two regions. The East Pacific leadership salutes our allies in Thaecia and makes clear to continuously develop and maintain positive relations with them. The treaty has been ratified by Magisterium 16 days ago.





POEM OF THE GREATS

Preamble:

At the island, known as Christie,
The awaited dawn appeared.
As the golden rays covered the land,
Two brothers, known as the Greats, met.

The older, who lived past a catastrophe,
The younger, who was still so young.
Far from sight, of the filthy world,
They came together,
Stretching their arms.
The songs of their sons,
They want to share.

From what they want to abandon,
The endless pain, loneliness and darkness,
And to protect the gold of their people,
They agree to create a bond.
Thus, a spell, together, they cast:
Calling Seraphim, the Angel of Diplomacy.

They look at one another,
They see a brother.
Bond, created together,
Shall be never forgotten!

And to memorize this event,
Seraphim looks from above,
Inking joyfully his papyrus,
Seraphim writes the poem,

Poem of the Greats.



Article 1: Recognition
1. Both signatories shall hereby recognise the Confederated East Pacific, as established by the Concordat, and the Government of Thaecia, as established by the Constitution of Thaecia, as the legitimate government of the East Pacific and Thaecia, respectively.
2. Both signatories shall mutually recognise the Constitutions and Successor Governments of one another as legitimate and valid.

Article 2: Establishment of Relations
1. Both signatories shall maintain in-game embassies with one another.
2. Both signatories shall maintain a diplomatic exchange to the best of their ability, in which each signatory sends a diplomat to the other’s region.

Article 3: Mutual Cultural Exchange
1. Each signatory shall encourage their citizenry to engage in the cultural events of the other signatory.
2. Cultural events including but not being limited to festivals, competitions, and game nights.
3. Each signatory shall respect the other’s cultural values and items.

Article 4: Intelligence Sharing
1. In the event that a signatory comes across intelligence that pertains to a threat to the other signatory’s regional security or to any act being undertaken by a party engaging in military hostilities with a signatory, said intelligence shall be shared between signatories.
2. Intelligence shall be shared to the Viziers of the East Pacific or the President of Thaecia for the respective signatory.
3. Both signatories shall agree to keep shared intelligence confidential unless doing so violates the domestic laws of each signatory, the terms of service for any regional service used by each signatory, or the terms of service of NationStates.

Article 5: Military Obligations
1. Each signatory shall agree not to engage in military hostilities, subterfuge, or espionage against each others’ regions and legitimate governments.
2. Each signatory shall agree to provide military aid in the event of an attack against the other’s home region.
3. Each signatory shall provide military aid for a legal transition of power between delegates, if requested.

Article 6: Amendments
1. If a signatory violates the provisions of this treaty, negotiations shall initiate, lasting for a period of one month, in which the signatories discuss either amending or annulling this treaty.
2. If the negotiation period expires, the treaty shall not be changed.
3. Either signatory may request an amendment to be made to this treaty. Following such a request, both signatories shall discuss the amendment. Upon ratification by both signatories, an amendment shall be ratified and effect this treaty.
4. A signatory may decide to annul this treaty at any time, excluding the circumstances listed in Section 1 of this Article. A signatory shall notify the other signatory of this decision. Upon such notice, the treaty shall be officially annulled one week from notification.
5. Both signatories shall not consider annulment of this treaty as an act of hostility or declaration of war upon the other signatory.



Last edited by Libertanny on Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Yokiria
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Posts: 750
Founded: Jan 24, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Yokiria » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:42 am

Okay, TEP, I am very very disappointed. Time for me to do more about this than complain.
Last edited by Yokiria on Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Former Guardian of Osiris

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and if you die...
This nation's views do not necessarily reflect the views of the player.

I want to die with you.~

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La xinga
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Postby La xinga » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:52 am

Yokiria wrote:Okay, TEP, I am very very disappointed. Time for me to do more about this than complain.

And what would that be?
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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Honeydewistania » Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:54 am

Yokiria wrote:Okay, TEP, I am very very disappointed. Time for me to do more about this than complain.

The poem wasn’t that bad...
Honeydewistania (Nation mostly does not represent real life views.)

Retired Regional Military Director of Lazarus
Posts OOC unless marked otherwise.
Ambassador to the WA: Benji Schubert Hepperle
Assistant to the Ambassador: Rekeil Wrigglesworth II
Official Coffee-fetcher and Masseuse: Jonathan Santos de Oliveira

The MT Army Warrior
Biggest acheivement: Spelling
GA#494 Regulating Desalination
GA#498 Ban on Forced Blood Sports
GA#502 Repeal "Freedom to Seek Medical Care II"
GA#507 Repeal "Promotion of Recycling"
GA#511 Ensuring Effectual Recycling

SC#315 Commend Vippertooth33
SC#320 Condemn Noahs Second Country
SC#324 Commend The Red Fleet

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Great Algerstonia
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Posts: 394
Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Great Algerstonia » Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:45 pm

Yokiria wrote:Okay, TEP, I am very very disappointed. Time for me to do more about this than complain.

What’s your issue with this treaty?
Read this signature at your own risk.

Sedgistan wrote:Attempted threadjack on sandwiches and satanism removed.


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Sancta Romana Ecclesia
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Posts: 294
Founded: Aug 04, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sancta Romana Ecclesia » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:23 pm

Great Algerstonia wrote:
Yokiria wrote:Okay, TEP, I am very very disappointed. Time for me to do more about this than complain.

What’s your issue with this treaty?

See Yokiria's posts about Thaecia just a bit above in this thread and you'll understand what their issue is.
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Varanius
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Sep 18, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Varanius » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:32 am

Sancta Romana Ecclesia wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:What’s your issue with this treaty?

See Yokiria's posts about Thaecia just a bit above in this thread and you'll understand what their issue is.

Why read when you can just jump into a conversation with no context
A TWPer with a question

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Topid
Minister
 
Posts: 2827
Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:47 am

JURISDICTIONS wrote:
Sedgistan wrote: :blink: I can't let this historical innacuracy stand. The end of the 3WB was this realisation R4 wasn't going away, which led to Topid's Condemn Unknown passing after a couple of months of us locking the SC down.


I was there, do you not remember my resolution? The one to Commend AMOM, that was voted down in the (at the time) largest downvote in SC history (I really had wished I had a badge for that)... AMOM was upset, and even released a statement.

He lost a commendation, as a leader, because of his stubbornness, and that I proved those good resolutions could be written with R4 in place.

I forced the 3WB into a choice: Either approve of their leader and disavow their principles, or, Uphold their principles and disapprove of their leader.
I, therefore, claim responsibility in where the WA is today. I worked really hard on that resolution. I got it to quorum during the writer's block, and in the end enabled better resolutions from the Security Council.

I think the discrepancy Sedge is seeing here is that your Commend AMOM failed in May, while the 3WB continued to have the SC shut down for a full 8 weeks longer. In fact, given that the Rue IV protest had barely even started at this point, I don’t see as someone who was fairly involved in all the goings ons at the time how anyone could reasonably claim Commend AMOM being defeated days into a protest that went on for weeks had anything at all to do with its end.
Founder, Pacifica

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