NATION

PASSWORD

Embassy of Thalassia

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
Not a roleplaying forum.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Grey County
Envoy
 
Posts: 231
Founded: Jun 08, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grey County » Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:56 am

Honeydewistania wrote:i think the best course of action now is to wait and see what the IC comes up with for a new constitution, instead of pointless back-and-forth "bormiar does not know how oligrachy works here" "actually thalassia is north korea" etc

youre probably correct

User avatar
Badivermeraed
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 56
Founded: May 03, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Badivermeraed » Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:49 am

The Prime Minister shall, upon election, appoint a Cabinet to assist with programs and activities of executive government, and may dismiss Cabinet Ministers from office. In addition to whichever additional ministries the Prime Minister may decide to create, the Prime Minister must fill the following mandatory ministries

No, it was legal for Aren to make MoR and MoAA. As for your other points, when Borm calls some of the most dedicated public servants (including the founder) tyrants and dictators, I think people have a right to be angry lol. I've known Sho and Aren for over a year now, they wouldn't do anything that's not aiding thalassia. I mean, Sho helped create the region :P

Anyways, toer, I thought you were done with thalassia?
Bad Solvi Razedusk-Jörmunr, Crown Prince of Thalassia

Bad has been convicted of warcrimes in former Thalassia -Aquila

Thanks Bad, you're a groovy gentleman. - Tirr

User avatar
Toerana
Envoy
 
Posts: 210
Founded: Nov 27, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Toerana » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:02 am

Badivermeraed wrote:The Prime Minister shall, upon election, appoint a Cabinet to assist with programs and activities of executive government, and may dismiss Cabinet Ministers from office. In addition to whichever additional ministries the Prime Minister may decide to create, the Prime Minister must fill the following mandatory ministries

No, it was legal for Aren to make MoR and MoAA. As for your other points, when Borm calls some of the most dedicated public servants (including the founder) tyrants and dictators, I think people have a right to be angry lol. I've known Sho and Aren for over a year now, they wouldn't do anything that's not aiding thalassia. I mean, Sho helped create the region :P

Anyways, toer, I thought you were done with thalassia?

I never said Arenado creating Ministries was illegal, I was pointing to it as an alternate solution as opposed to a complete government coup.

I left the region, but that isn't the same as being "done" with the region.
"In a world of Trumps, Le Pens and Putins, we are very firmly on exactly the other side."
- Vince Cable -
| The Rejected Realms' Gameside Officer | Thaecian Senator |
| Former Editor-in-Chief of the Rejected Times |
NPO Delenda Est

User avatar
Bormiar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Bormiar » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:07 am

Zentata wrote:
Sho, as well as two others have recently unilaterally dissolved the constitution, under the claim of "inactivity" (the RMB is more active than it has been in the majority of Thalassian history


Borm, even though the rmb may seem active, it's all role-playing. Actual government inactivity, which is why the constitution was dissolved, was and is wide-spread and systemic. I should know, considering I was part of the government. Heck, even the amount of nations in Thalassia has been falling dramatically. Also, in the statement by the IC, they admit that regional activity has been driven by 5 or 6 people since the end of 2019. The new constitution is meant to encourage and help a more active and diverse government. I very much hope that it does.

There's certainly a premise for a new constitution. Why should it not be made using the efficient, democratic process already put in place in the government? Why don't they have to vote on having an elected legislature?

Badivermeraed wrote:The Prime Minister shall, upon election, appoint a Cabinet to assist with programs and activities of executive government, and may dismiss Cabinet Ministers from office. In addition to whichever additional ministries the Prime Minister may decide to create, the Prime Minister must fill the following mandatory ministries

No, it was legal for Aren to make MoR and MoAA.

He wasn't saying it was illegal. He was saying Arenado already had re-organization power. I'm not sure whether that holds up. A new constitution may have been necessary, but this "Interim Council" and dissolving the constitution is ridiculous.

Badivermeraed wrote:As for your other points, when Borm calls some of the most dedicated public servants (including the founder) tyrants and dictators, I think people have a right to be angry lol. I've known Sho and Aren for over a year now, they wouldn't do anything that's not aiding thalassia. I mean, Sho helped create the region :P


This is just proving my point. You guys are supporting their change not because you have any thoughts on their course of action, but because "Sho and Aren are the best!" or "Sho and Aren are the best people to be doing this" or Sho and Aren are "some of the most dedicated public servants" (quote from Bad) or just blatantly: "I like Sho and Arenado". If this were more extreme, it would be a personality cult. If Sho and Arenado's intent were manipulation, it would be Orwellian. Right now, it's just dangerous-- good people can make bad decisions without correction.

A strong defender of Sho who dmed me to talk about this -- props to them -- attempted to debate for the path Thalassia is taking. Eventually, they sort of stopped defending them and said that they will see how it goes. While it's certainly possible that they just wanted me to shut up, they asked me whether I had any other critiques I wanted to talk about, suggesting they weren't frustrated with talking to me. I repeated this for another critique of Thalassia. Again, it ended with "I'll see how it goes" after some debate. So I asked them whether they would be fine with the same actions that Sho were doing if it were a RL political leader in their country (no, not Trump). They say no, stating, "I trust Sho and I dont trust [political leader in their country]". They later change their argument to say that they wouldn't be sitting back and seeing how it goes in RL because "RL has a lot more repercussions on [them]", implying quite a bit of hesitancy that they hadn't expressed before. This is clearly not a matter of players liking Sho's actions. It's a matter of players liking Sho. Thalassians don't think that Sho is wrong because they won't think that Sho is wrong.

As for "people having a right to get angry", when you play a political simulator or run a region, you invite criticism. When you espouse an opinion, you invite debate. When someone asks you why you're doing something or supporting someone, they are holding you accountable for your words and actions. Thalassians and their cronies did not have a right to throw a temper tantrum where they flamed me over a couple dozen times over the course of several hours. If some moderators weren't heavy participants in it, they would've had to give out warnings per their Rule 3. And I didn't flame anyone. Frankly, I would quit TRR or TNP if I saw the region and its moderation behave that badly in response to criticism (which TRR and TNP often have no shortage of). So you might try to rationalize your and other's actions, Bad, but it only makes you look so much worse.

You guys might think that you can get off with this because people don't want to criticize you and take your slander, but I know for a fact that there are many major regions which will never associate with you guys after seeing this (the coup and the OOC issues). I have good evidence of that (and it's not just regions I'm in). The Leftist Assembly is already dissolving their embassy, as they should. Keep burning bridges.

User avatar
Polder Eiland
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jun 04, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Polder Eiland » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:26 am

Bormiar wrote:
Zentata wrote:
Borm, even though the rmb may seem active, it's all role-playing. Actual government inactivity, which is why the constitution was dissolved, was and is wide-spread and systemic. I should know, considering I was part of the government. Heck, even the amount of nations in Thalassia has been falling dramatically. Also, in the statement by the IC, they admit that regional activity has been driven by 5 or 6 people since the end of 2019. The new constitution is meant to encourage and help a more active and diverse government. I very much hope that it does.

There's certainly a premise for a new constitution. Why should it not be made using the efficient, democratic process already put in place in the government? Why don't they have to vote on having an elected legislature?

Badivermeraed wrote:The Prime Minister shall, upon election, appoint a Cabinet to assist with programs and activities of executive government, and may dismiss Cabinet Ministers from office. In addition to whichever additional ministries the Prime Minister may decide to create, the Prime Minister must fill the following mandatory ministries

No, it was legal for Aren to make MoR and MoAA.

He wasn't saying it was illegal. He was saying Arenado already had re-organization power. I'm not sure whether that holds up. A new constitution may have been necessary, but this "Interim Council" and dissolving the constitution is ridiculous.

Badivermeraed wrote:As for your other points, when Borm calls some of the most dedicated public servants (including the founder) tyrants and dictators, I think people have a right to be angry lol. I've known Sho and Aren for over a year now, they wouldn't do anything that's not aiding thalassia. I mean, Sho helped create the region :P


This is just proving my point. You guys are supporting their change not because you have any thoughts on their course of action, but because "Sho and Aren are the best!" or "Sho and Aren are the best people to be doing this" or Sho and Aren are "some of the most dedicated public servants" (quote from Bad) or just blatantly: "I like Sho and Arenado". If this were more extreme, it would be a personality cult. If Sho and Arenado's intent were manipulation, it would be Orwellian. Right now, it's just dangerous-- good people can make bad decisions without correction.

A strong defender of Sho who dmed me to talk about this -- props to them -- attempted to debate for the path Thalassia is taking. Eventually, they sort of stopped defending them and said that they will see how it goes. While it's certainly possible that they just wanted me to shut up, they asked me whether I had any other critiques I wanted to talk about, suggesting they weren't frustrated with talking to me. I repeated this for another critique of Thalassia. Again, it ended with "I'll see how it goes" after some debate. So I asked them whether they would be fine with the same actions that Sho were doing if it were a RL political leader in their country (no, not Trump). They say no, stating, "I trust Sho and I dont trust [political leader in their country]". They later change their argument to say that they wouldn't be sitting back and seeing how it goes in RL because "RL has a lot more repercussions on [them]", implying quite a bit of hesitancy that they hadn't expressed before. This is clearly not a matter of players liking Sho's actions. It's a matter of players liking Sho. Thalassians don't think that Sho is wrong because they won't think that Sho is wrong.

As for "people having a right to get angry", when you play a political simulator or run a region, you invite criticism. When you espouse an opinion, you invite debate. When someone asks you why you're doing something or supporting someone, they are holding you accountable for your words and actions. Thalassians and their cronies did not have a right to throw a temper tantrum where they flamed me over a couple dozen times over the course of several hours. If some moderators weren't heavy participants in it, they would've had to give out warnings per their Rule 3. And I didn't flame anyone. Frankly, I would quit TRR or TNP if I saw the region and its moderation behave that badly in response to criticism (which TRR and TNP often have no shortage of). So you might try to rationalize your and other's actions, Bad, but it only makes you look so much worse.

You guys might think that you can get off with this because people don't want to criticize you and take your slander, but I know for a fact that there are many major regions which will never associate with you guys after seeing this (the coup and the OOC issues). I have good evidence of that (and it's not just regions I'm in). The Leftist Assembly is already dissolving their embassy, as they should. Keep burning bridges.

I know of several regions that would be more than happy to improve relations with Thalassia :)
And it’s a good thing this isn’t TNP or TRR.
Hi, my name is Jinkies!
You may know me as: Vapid, Antigone, or Gibraltarica
Director of Media for Anteria
Former Delegate of Pacifica
Author of SC#228

User avatar
Sail Nation
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 130
Founded: Dec 25, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sail Nation » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:34 am

May I, a former Thalassian citizen and also a news reporter wishing to make an article on this just ask a few questions?

Firstly, the statement was very vague about why the government was inactive. Thalassia is large enough to find new nations to join minor government positions, from which they can work their way into government. So why does the government need re-organization in the first place?

Next, under what authority is the government allowed to be dissolved, along with the entire constitution, with no prior warning or democratic vote? I know the Sho is the founder and can do it in an in-game sense, but not legally, even considering the constitutional monarchy that the region has. Did the Interim Council give itself authority, and is that even possible?

Finally, would anyone like to comment on what Sho said about 100 days ago
This in no way, shape, or form robs citizens of their ability to elect their own representatives- the government will exist as it does. I would never support a system that takes away that right.

Isn't that what's just happened?
Former WA delegate, MP and Prime Minister in Lorania
MP in Thaecia (as Prussian Sail Nation)
Travelling nationstates (as Sail Nation Travellers), reviewing regions as I go

I'm a Christian and a Liberal. I won't enforce my beliefs on you, so please don't enforce yours on me.

Pro: Leaving things in my sig that I don't like anymore
Anti: Use of pros and antis in sigs

User avatar
Nationific
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Feb 19, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nationific » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:01 am

Okay, so, here I am. I'm under duress from a very mean Brit not to say anything which might be taken as support to two obviously sane individuals among a world of zombies who follow the lead zombies, or may I say, semi-humans, unquestionably. My point being, both of these said individuals have valid points, but:
Thalassia was never a democracy in its truest sense, it isn't possible in NS.
The constitution written by the Interim Council will be as valid as the people- who are very sane and able, thank you very much- see fit. If we don't like it, we don't vote for it.
We have democratically elected the Prime Minister who appointed said semi-humans comprising the IC. We trust that former PM's decisions, else we wouldn't have elected them.
Government inactivity is real, take it from a former Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and Civil Servant in two other ministries.
The constitution was dissolved because it was inefficient at addressing this inactivity.
As to why we were not consulted before this move, I personally think that it was done for the best.
If I feel at any point that I don't have a say in matters anymore, I, along with many others would immediately leave this region, which the IC doesn't want. They were the people who built this region from scratch. They would never want people leaving. Sorry to burst y'all's bubble, but they didn't turn evil all of a sudden, this move was deliberated over for a long time.
Lastly, the Founder. NS allows for a Founder. As per game rules, the Founder is Supreme. We could blindly follow that rule. But Sho herself is subject to scrutiny in this region, and to those unacquainted with stuff here, every move she does is questioned, often by people you'd least expect to.

P.s.- These are my opinions, and my opinions alone. I've not been paid by some random dudes and duddetes to write all this. I genuinely care about this region, I've been there from the beginning, and if I thought all this was wrong, I'd be the first one to leave. I'm here as of now. Therefore it implies, I trust the IC as of now out of my own free will and not out of some personality-worship syndrome.

User avatar
Polder Eiland
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jun 04, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Polder Eiland » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:01 am

Sail Nation wrote:May I, a former Thalassian citizen and also a news reporter wishing to make an article on this just ask a few questions?

Firstly, the statement was very vague about why the government was inactive. Thalassia is large enough to find new nations to join minor government positions, from which they can work their way into government. So why does the government need re-organization in the first place?

Next, under what authority is the government allowed to be dissolved, along with the entire constitution, with no prior warning or democratic vote? I know the Sho is the founder and can do it in an in-game sense, but not legally, even considering the constitutional monarchy that the region has. Did the Interim Council give itself authority, and is that even possible?

Finally, would anyone like to comment on what Sho said about 100 days ago
This in no way, shape, or form robs citizens of their ability to elect their own representatives- the government will exist as it does. I would never support a system that takes away that right.

Isn't that what's just happened?

It's possible, because it just happened. If people who actually care about Thalassia don't mind, why should you? Or are you better knowing? :)
Hi, my name is Jinkies!
You may know me as: Vapid, Antigone, or Gibraltarica
Director of Media for Anteria
Former Delegate of Pacifica
Author of SC#228

User avatar
Imperium of Josh
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 191
Founded: Nov 25, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Imperium of Josh » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:10 am

Bormiar wrote:
Zentata wrote:
Borm, even though the rmb may seem active, it's all role-playing. Actual government inactivity, which is why the constitution was dissolved, was and is wide-spread and systemic. I should know, considering I was part of the government. Heck, even the amount of nations in Thalassia has been falling dramatically. Also, in the statement by the IC, they admit that regional activity has been driven by 5 or 6 people since the end of 2019. The new constitution is meant to encourage and help a more active and diverse government. I very much hope that it does.

There's certainly a premise for a new constitution. Why should it not be made using the efficient, democratic process already put in place in the government? Why don't they have to vote on having an elected legislature?

Badivermeraed wrote:The Prime Minister shall, upon election, appoint a Cabinet to assist with programs and activities of executive government, and may dismiss Cabinet Ministers from office. In addition to whichever additional ministries the Prime Minister may decide to create, the Prime Minister must fill the following mandatory ministries

No, it was legal for Aren to make MoR and MoAA.

He wasn't saying it was illegal. He was saying Arenado already had re-organization power. I'm not sure whether that holds up. A new constitution may have been necessary, but this "Interim Council" and dissolving the constitution is ridiculous.

Badivermeraed wrote:As for your other points, when Borm calls some of the most dedicated public servants (including the founder) tyrants and dictators, I think people have a right to be angry lol. I've known Sho and Aren for over a year now, they wouldn't do anything that's not aiding thalassia. I mean, Sho helped create the region :P


This is just proving my point. You guys are supporting their change not because you have any thoughts on their course of action, but because "Sho and Aren are the best!" or "Sho and Aren are the best people to be doing this" or Sho and Aren are "some of the most dedicated public servants" (quote from Bad) or just blatantly: "I like Sho and Arenado". If this were more extreme, it would be a personality cult. If Sho and Arenado's intent were manipulation, it would be Orwellian. Right now, it's just dangerous-- good people can make bad decisions without correction.

A strong defender of Sho who dmed me to talk about this -- props to them -- attempted to debate for the path Thalassia is taking. Eventually, they sort of stopped defending them and said that they will see how it goes. While it's certainly possible that they just wanted me to shut up, they asked me whether I had any other critiques I wanted to talk about, suggesting they weren't frustrated with talking to me. I repeated this for another critique of Thalassia. Again, it ended with "I'll see how it goes" after some debate. So I asked them whether they would be fine with the same actions that Sho were doing if it were a RL political leader in their country (no, not Trump). They say no, stating, "I trust Sho and I dont trust [political leader in their country]". They later change their argument to say that they wouldn't be sitting back and seeing how it goes in RL because "RL has a lot more repercussions on [them]", implying quite a bit of hesitancy that they hadn't expressed before. This is clearly not a matter of players liking Sho's actions. It's a matter of players liking Sho. Thalassians don't think that Sho is wrong because they won't think that Sho is wrong.

As for "people having a right to get angry", when you play a political simulator or run a region, you invite criticism. When you espouse an opinion, you invite debate. When someone asks you why you're doing something or supporting someone, they are holding you accountable for your words and actions. Thalassians and their cronies did not have a right to throw a temper tantrum where they flamed me over a couple dozen times over the course of several hours. If some moderators weren't heavy participants in it, they would've had to give out warnings per their Rule 3. And I didn't flame anyone. Frankly, I would quit TRR or TNP if I saw the region and its moderation behave that badly in response to criticism (which TRR and TNP often have no shortage of). So you might try to rationalize your and other's actions, Bad, but it only makes you look so much worse.

You guys might think that you can get off with this because people don't want to criticize you and take your slander, but I know for a fact that there are many major regions which will never associate with you guys after seeing this (the coup and the OOC issues). I have good evidence of that (and it's not just regions I'm in). The Leftist Assembly is already dissolving their embassy, as they should. Keep burning bridges.

Lol imagine thinking democracy is efficient. Imagine thinking that the solution to a crippleled system is to double down on it. And imagine thinking that a region is anything other than its founder's personal possession.

I don't even know much or care much about the internal politics of Thalassia, but what I see is a popular reform process disliked by Borm, specifically. My cause for interest in this case isn't ideological - Thalassia's general form of government has always been a long shot from the kind of thing I like. It isn't transitioning to my kind of style; you'd think if it was I'd be advising, eh? My cause for interest here lies far more in the fact that Borm seems intent upon sabotaging a region he has admitted to not giving a damn about. That region has people I like in it, and I will not stand by and watch as the thoughts and efforts put in by other people are once again torn down by someone with no stake, nothing to add, and no concept of good faith.

So yes, people there want you to go away. Not because of any herd mentality, but because you, through your own actions, have opted to take a path which can only be interpreted as malicious and wilful attacks on a region for personal gain. To score some political points. How is this evident? This thread barely saw activity prior. Thalassia's population doesn't often come here to express itself. That's the perfect opportunity for Borm, self-percieved master of all opinions, to seem to an external audience as if he has any idea what he's talking about. And so you have. Don't be surprised when the world bites back at your disingenuity.
Last edited by Imperium of Josh on Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bormiar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Bormiar » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:50 am

Imperium of Josh wrote:
Bormiar wrote:There's certainly a premise for a new constitution. Why should it not be made using the efficient, democratic process already put in place in the government? Why don't they have to vote on having an elected legislature?


He wasn't saying it was illegal. He was saying Arenado already had re-organization power. I'm not sure whether that holds up. A new constitution may have been necessary, but this "Interim Council" and dissolving the constitution is ridiculous.



This is just proving my point. You guys are supporting their change not because you have any thoughts on their course of action, but because "Sho and Aren are the best!" or "Sho and Aren are the best people to be doing this" or Sho and Aren are "some of the most dedicated public servants" (quote from Bad) or just blatantly: "I like Sho and Arenado". If this were more extreme, it would be a personality cult. If Sho and Arenado's intent were manipulation, it would be Orwellian. Right now, it's just dangerous-- good people can make bad decisions without correction.

A strong defender of Sho who dmed me to talk about this -- props to them -- attempted to debate for the path Thalassia is taking. Eventually, they sort of stopped defending them and said that they will see how it goes. While it's certainly possible that they just wanted me to shut up, they asked me whether I had any other critiques I wanted to talk about, suggesting they weren't frustrated with talking to me. I repeated this for another critique of Thalassia. Again, it ended with "I'll see how it goes" after some debate. So I asked them whether they would be fine with the same actions that Sho were doing if it were a RL political leader in their country (no, not Trump). They say no, stating, "I trust Sho and I dont trust [political leader in their country]". They later change their argument to say that they wouldn't be sitting back and seeing how it goes in RL because "RL has a lot more repercussions on [them]", implying quite a bit of hesitancy that they hadn't expressed before. This is clearly not a matter of players liking Sho's actions. It's a matter of players liking Sho. Thalassians don't think that Sho is wrong because they won't think that Sho is wrong.

As for "people having a right to get angry", when you play a political simulator or run a region, you invite criticism. When you espouse an opinion, you invite debate. When someone asks you why you're doing something or supporting someone, they are holding you accountable for your words and actions. Thalassians and their cronies did not have a right to throw a temper tantrum where they flamed me over a couple dozen times over the course of several hours. If some moderators weren't heavy participants in it, they would've had to give out warnings per their Rule 3. And I didn't flame anyone. Frankly, I would quit TRR or TNP if I saw the region and its moderation behave that badly in response to criticism (which TRR and TNP often have no shortage of). So you might try to rationalize your and other's actions, Bad, but it only makes you look so much worse.

You guys might think that you can get off with this because people don't want to criticize you and take your slander, but I know for a fact that there are many major regions which will never associate with you guys after seeing this (the coup and the OOC issues). I have good evidence of that (and it's not just regions I'm in). The Leftist Assembly is already dissolving their embassy, as they should. Keep burning bridges.

Lol imagine thinking democracy is efficient. Imagine thinking that the solution to a crippleled system is to double down on it. And imagine thinking that a region is anything other than its founder's personal possession.

I don't even know much or care much about the internal politics of Thalassia, but what I see is a popular reform process disliked by Borm, specifically. My cause for interest in this case isn't ideological - Thalassia's general form of government has always been a long shot from the kind of thing I like. It isn't transitioning to my kind of style; you'd think if it was I'd be advising, eh? My cause for interest here lies far more in the fact that Borm seems intent upon sabotaging a region he has admitted to not giving a damn about. That region has people I like in it, and I will not stand by and watch as the thoughts and efforts put in by other people are once again torn down by someone with no stake, nothing to add, and no concept of good faith.

So yes, people there want you to go away. Not because of any herd mentality, but because you, through your own actions, have opted to take a path which can only be interpreted as malicious and wilful attacks on a region for personal gain. To score some political points. How is this evident? This thread barely saw activity prior. Thalassia's population doesn't often come here to express itself. That's the perfect opportunity for Borm, self-percieved master of all opinions, to seem to an external audience as if he has any idea what he's talking about. And so you have. Don't be surprised when the world bites back at your disingenuity.


Josh: you just justified dissolving the constitution by saying that fixing it -- and I agree that they did need to fix something -- would've been too inefficient with a vote. You're a known hater of democracy-- you're just obsessed with hating it. Despite what you claim, your position is purely ideological.

But you're very brave to stand up to the big bad bormiar "sabotaging" Thalassia. I'm sure it took a lot of heart and sentimentality not to "stand by and watch me destroy Thalassia". You act like you're a martyr teetering over the sword they die on. But how many pats on the back are you getting for your phony moralism? Despite your words, the only thing remotely martyrized about your post is that you get to be part of a circlejerk.

As for bullshit #3, me being malicious because I posted here instead the RMB: Why would I think I could circlejerk about this in an Osiris/TWP/meritocracy-dominated subforum? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? I'm preaching [insert mainstream religion] in the Church of Scientology, whereas you're one of several scientologists. If I wanted to talk to an external audience, I wouldn't have have posted the thread in Thalassia's RMB.

So, to sum up Josh's post: he's pretending like Thalassia is the aggrieved party because I chose a forum that, while being biased in favor of Thalassia, wasn't as biased as he would've liked. In Josh's deluded world, anyone or any forum less totalitarian than him (such as NSGP) is a TNP-dominated, pro-democracy circlejerk.

Wherever Josh lives is probably a democracy. I don't blame him for being radically anti-democracy, considering how badly his democracy must've failed to produce someone with such backwards, historically-naive, worse-than-TEDx theories.
Last edited by Bormiar on Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Polder Eiland
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jun 04, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Polder Eiland » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:00 am

Bormiar wrote:-snip-

Bormiar, you seem to be assigning more significance to Josh's comments than there are. I can't tell if you're accusing him of doing PSYOPs or being brainwashed himself with the scientology analogy, but either way, that's incredibly laughable. Josh is his own brand of everything, and you unintentionally flaunt your ignorance of this subject by accusing him of going with the crowd.

Edit: Also, "yet you participate in a society! Curious" moment?
Last edited by Polder Eiland on Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hi, my name is Jinkies!
You may know me as: Vapid, Antigone, or Gibraltarica
Director of Media for Anteria
Former Delegate of Pacifica
Author of SC#228

User avatar
Imperium of Josh
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 191
Founded: Nov 25, 2015
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Imperium of Josh » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:06 am

I can but laugh.

User avatar
Boston Castle
Envoy
 
Posts: 332
Founded: Aug 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Boston Castle » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:25 am

Sail Nation wrote:May I, a former Thalassian citizen and also a news reporter wishing to make an article on this just ask a few questions?

Firstly, the statement was very vague about why the government was inactive. Thalassia is large enough to find new nations to join minor government positions, from which they can work their way into government. So why does the government need re-organization in the first place?

Next, under what authority is the government allowed to be dissolved, along with the entire constitution, with no prior warning or democratic vote? I know the Sho is the founder and can do it in an in-game sense, but not legally, even considering the constitutional monarchy that the region has. Did the Interim Council give itself authority, and is that even possible?

Finally, would anyone like to comment on what Sho said about 100 days ago
This in no way, shape, or form robs citizens of their ability to elect their own representatives- the government will exist as it does. I would never support a system that takes away that right.

Isn't that what's just happened?

A lot of what I've seen, as a nation in Thalassia as well (via Candide) is that a lot of the problem was that there didn't seem to be an accessible way to integrate new nations into governmental positions or otherwise, so hopefully the reforms address that.

As for your other point, re: Sho's comment, is that I don't think she meant dissolving the government in any sort of malicious way, per se, I think she genuinely saw that reform was needed and that if it didn't, Thalassia could fail. In some sense, we all would, I think, do anything to save our region-especially one which we had founded.
About Me | The Castellian WA Delegation

Minister of World Assembly Affairs, The North Pacific
Views expressed not necessarily those of TNP and her government unless stated otherwise.

User avatar
Bormiar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Bormiar » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:36 am

Polder Eiland wrote:
Bormiar wrote:-snip-

Bormiar, you seem to be assigning more significance to Josh's comments than there are. I can't tell if you're accusing him of doing PSYOPs or being brainwashed himself with the scientology analogy, but either way, that's incredibly laughable. Josh is his own brand of everything, and you unintentionally flaunt your ignorance of this subject by accusing him of going with the crowd.

Edit: Also, "yet you participate in a society! Curious" moment?

Scientology was only used because it doesn't have anywhere near as much sophistication as other popular religions. And yet some people fall for it-- for whatever reason.

Josh is definitely not clever enough to be doing PSYOPs. He's just biased and moralistic. He also probably thinks he's superior to us democratic sheep who fell for American propaganda.

Boston Castle wrote:As for your other point, re: Sho's comment, is that I don't think she meant dissolving the government in any sort of malicious way, per se, I think she genuinely saw that reform was needed and that if it didn't, Thalassia could fail. In some sense, we all would, I think, do anything to save our region-especially one which we had founded.


He didn't ask whether Thalassia needed reform. He asked what the reasoning for going about it the way Sho did rather than just starting a constitutional convention and amending the constitution was.

Edit: though you're right. There's very little significance in any of his comments.
Last edited by Bormiar on Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Boston Castle
Envoy
 
Posts: 332
Founded: Aug 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Boston Castle » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:38 am

Bormiar wrote:
Boston Castle wrote:As for your other point, re: Sho's comment, is that I don't think she meant dissolving the government in any sort of malicious way, per se, I think she genuinely saw that reform was needed and that if it didn't, Thalassia could fail. In some sense, we all would, I think, do anything to save our region-especially one which we had founded.


He didn't ask whether Thalassia needed reform. He asked what the reasoning for going about it the way Sho did rather than just starting a constitutional convention and amending the constitution was.

Ah, well, again, I think the reasoning was that she didn't think there was a way to do it inside of existing government structures and with the Delegate on a rather-extend LOA, the Vice Delegate inactive, and no legislative assembly (there actually had been a regional discussion about the creation of such a thing back earlier in the summer), this method must have seemed to be the best possible way to ensure what needed to be done was done.
Last edited by Boston Castle on Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
About Me | The Castellian WA Delegation

Minister of World Assembly Affairs, The North Pacific
Views expressed not necessarily those of TNP and her government unless stated otherwise.

User avatar
Grey County
Envoy
 
Posts: 231
Founded: Jun 08, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grey County » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:47 am

Boston Castle wrote:
Bormiar wrote:


He didn't ask whether Thalassia needed reform. He asked what the reasoning for going about it the way Sho did rather than just starting a constitutional convention and amending the constitution was.

Ah, well, again, I think the reasoning was that she didn't think there was a way to do it inside of existing government structures and with the Delegate on a rather-extend LOA, the Vice Delegate inactive, and no legislative assembly (there actually had been a regional discussion about the creation of such a thing back earlier in the summer), this method must have seemed to be the best possible way to ensure what needed to be done was done.

I would like to clarify that the Vice Delegate wasnt inactive he was also on LOA

User avatar
Toerana
Envoy
 
Posts: 210
Founded: Nov 27, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Toerana » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:56 am

Grey County wrote:I would like to clarify that the Vice Delegate wasnt inactive he was also on LOA

If they're on a Leave of Absence, then they aren't doing their job, which is the equivalent of being inactive.
"In a world of Trumps, Le Pens and Putins, we are very firmly on exactly the other side."
- Vince Cable -
| The Rejected Realms' Gameside Officer | Thaecian Senator |
| Former Editor-in-Chief of the Rejected Times |
NPO Delenda Est

User avatar
Grey County
Envoy
 
Posts: 231
Founded: Jun 08, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grey County » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:00 pm

Toerana wrote:
Grey County wrote:I would like to clarify that the Vice Delegate wasnt inactive he was also on LOA

If they're on a Leave of Absence, then they aren't doing their job, which is the equivalent of being inactive.

Guys I think Toerena doesnt realize We have real lives

User avatar
Bormiar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Bormiar » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:07 pm

Boston Castle wrote:
Bormiar wrote:


He didn't ask whether Thalassia needed reform. He asked what the reasoning for going about it the way Sho did rather than just starting a constitutional convention and amending the constitution was.

Ah, well, again, I think the reasoning was that she didn't think there was a way to do it inside of existing government structures and with the Delegate on a rather-extend LOA, the Vice Delegate inactive, and no legislative assembly (there actually had been a regional discussion about the creation of such a thing back earlier in the summer), this method must have seemed to be the best possible way to ensure what needed to be done was done.

She might've thought that, but I don't see why. Clearly Arenado and Wym were still around to help with legislation. A ConCon would've attracted about as much attention for the semi-actives as this.

Dissolving the constitution might've made sense if a) they hadn't done the Interim Council-- everyone should be able to write it, especially if there aren't a lot of active players; b) there was some sort of bureaucracy which would've prolonged a vote over a long time; and/OR [insert some other reason someone might have].

"Democracy is just inefficient"-- that wouldn't be an applicable claim here, because the Interim Council also wants to hold a vote (albeit unfair for the reasons in my first post). So it's not a vote itself which they thought would've held them down.

At best, dissolving the constitution was a very messy choice. It's not a good idea for a democracy (using Thalassia's description of themselves) to create a culture where laws don't matter when you have a big problem. If Thalassia lasts a long time, that will definitely be abused, knowingly or not. That's why I compared Sho to Palpatine. I'm not saying Sho is evil, but Sho's method would be brilliant if her goal were to gain more power. In this case, if this is malicious, it would probably be to dissipate dissent for a closed legislature. So you don't want to normalize breaking the law.

Thanks for your comments!

User avatar
Boston Castle
Envoy
 
Posts: 332
Founded: Aug 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Boston Castle » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:14 pm

Bormiar wrote:
Boston Castle wrote:Ah, well, again, I think the reasoning was that she didn't think there was a way to do it inside of existing government structures and with the Delegate on a rather-extend LOA, the Vice Delegate inactive, and no legislative assembly (there actually had been a regional discussion about the creation of such a thing back earlier in the summer), this method must have seemed to be the best possible way to ensure what needed to be done was done.

She might've thought that, but I don't see why. Clearly Arenado and Wym were still around to help with legislation. A ConCon would've attracted about as much attention for the semi-actives as this.

Dissolving the constitution might've made sense if a) they hadn't done the Interim Council-- everyone should be able to write it, especially if there aren't a lot of active players; b) there was some sort of bureaucracy which would've prolonged a vote over a long time; and/OR [insert some other reason someone might have].

"Democracy is just inefficient"-- that wouldn't be an applicable claim here, because the Interim Council also wants to hold a vote (albeit unfair for the reasons in my first post). So it's not a vote itself which they thought would've held them down.

At best, dissolving the constitution was a very messy choice. It's not a good idea for a democracy (using Thalassia's description of themselves) to create a culture where laws don't matter when you have a big problem. If Thalassia lasts a long time, that will definitely be abused, knowingly or not. That's why I compared Sho to Palpatine. I'm not saying Sho is evil, but Sho's method would be brilliant if her goal were to gain more power. In this case, if this is malicious, it would probably be to dissipate dissent for a closed legislature. So you don't want to normalize breaking the law.

Thanks for your comments!

To be fair here, they've said relatively nothing about how the ConCo is going to work or even what the new Constitution will look like. From what I understand, they're moving quite deliberately here, but...I've probably missed quite a bit, it's one of the Discord servers I have muted except for @everyone and direct pings.
About Me | The Castellian WA Delegation

Minister of World Assembly Affairs, The North Pacific
Views expressed not necessarily those of TNP and her government unless stated otherwise.

User avatar
Toerana
Envoy
 
Posts: 210
Founded: Nov 27, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Toerana » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:51 pm

Grey County wrote:
Toerana wrote:If they're on a Leave of Absence, then they aren't doing their job, which is the equivalent of being inactive.

Guys I think Toerena doesnt realize We have real lives

Toerana*


And that's not what I said :p
"In a world of Trumps, Le Pens and Putins, we are very firmly on exactly the other side."
- Vince Cable -
| The Rejected Realms' Gameside Officer | Thaecian Senator |
| Former Editor-in-Chief of the Rejected Times |
NPO Delenda Est

User avatar
Polder Eiland
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jun 04, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Polder Eiland » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:18 pm

Bormiar wrote:-snip-

That's a lot of psychoanalysis on josh. You sure you're qualified to be delivering those kind of judgements?
Hi, my name is Jinkies!
You may know me as: Vapid, Antigone, or Gibraltarica
Director of Media for Anteria
Former Delegate of Pacifica
Author of SC#228

User avatar
Lamoni
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 8491
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Lamoni » Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:00 pm

This post by Bormiar, and these posts by Polder Eiland are all worthy of a KNOCK IT OFF!

The thread in general also gets a Moderator Loom. This thread should seriously get back on track.
National Anthem
Resides in Greater Dienstad. (Former) Mayor of Equilism.
I'm a Senior N&I RP Mentor. Questions? TG me!
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."


Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.


Triplebaconation: Lamoni commands a quiet respect that carries its own authority. He is the Mandela of NS.

Part of the Meow family in Gameplay, and a GORRAM GAME MOD! My TGs are NOT for Mod Stuff.

User avatar
Honeydewistania
Minister
 
Posts: 3022
Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Honeydewistania » Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:34 pm

What’s the point of arguing when we’re gonna be back here in a few months with a new constitution/region
she/her

Radiohead wrote:ICE AGE COMING ICE AGE COMING


The Clash wrote:The ice age is coming

User avatar
Kavagrad
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1297
Founded: Nov 22, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kavagrad » Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:48 pm

Bormiar wrote:The Leftist Assembly is already dissolving their embassy, as they should. Keep burning bridges.

To be clear on this, the withdrawal of the Thalassian embassy was under discussion before this situation developed, as their use of the Monarchist tag made the embassy illegal under Assemblian law. It would've happened whether or not their government collapsed, and Cedoria would tell you as much if he were involved in this thread.

The assertion that Thalassia's current situation resulted in a burning of bridges with TLA does not represent anything close to reality. We still have good relations with Thalassia, as shown by our current co-participation in a sports RP on Discord. Our community continues to have a good relationship with theirs.
Last edited by Kavagrad on Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Kava where are you? We need a purge specialist" - Dyl
"Amazing how an entire ocean keeps kava away from me physically but he still finds ways to commit brutal war crimes" - Chrysanthemumlia
"It’s no fun being anti-Kava when he hates himself too" - Greylyn
Decorative Rubble Enthusiast

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Gameplay

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Zansoia

Advertisement

Remove ads