UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[The New California Republic]

They did not do this.

The Soviet Union killed hundreds of thousands of its farmers in dekulakisation.

China under Mao forced farmers to make steel and stole their produce, causing a famine that killed as many as 55 million people.

...seriously, quit the threadjack.

[Nuroblav]

Not only that, but the "left" and "right" are lazy buckets to conveniently throw groups of people into with little thought or attention. There are plenty of people on the "left" critical of what other people on the "left" are doing.

^^this

I have mentioned already that on another thread, they may be times where I may agree more an issue with someone on the right than someone on the left. Or with someone who is authoritarian than someone who is libertarian. Politics is not a simple 'left and right' complex.

To quote Vaush (I really have stooped to this level), 'politics is more of a vast spectrum of ideas' (I hope I got that right, but if not it still applies). Even within ideologies you'll find people disagreeing on things.

[Vassenor]

But that's enough about Capitalism.

I like how you criticise capitalism and yet are able to use this site on a computer that all exist because of capitalism.

If you want to stay true to the revolution you should buy computers from Venezuela

Oh hey it's this comic again.

[Souseiseki]

the soviet union and china, arguments over whether or not they were truly communist or not, literally did pull mullions of peasants out of poverty. like. that was their main thing.

They did not do this.

The Soviet Union killed hundreds of thousands of its farmers in dekulakisation.

China under Mao forced farmers to make steel and stole their produce, causing a famine that killed as many as 55 million people.

those events are irrelevant to whether or not they pulled millions of peasants out of poverty. the fact that the soviet union transformed russia from a backwards serf state to an industrialized super power should speak for itself without going into detail.

[-Ra-]

the soviet computers failed and western computers succeeded was due to a variety of factors of which "capitalism good communism bad" is not a primary one. british computers also failed but you don't put that down to a failure of capitalism for what should be obvious reasons.

British computers failed because they could not compete with other producers on the free market. The point about communism is that it did not come to survive the modern age, nor did communist countries produce any goods that have had noticeable impact on world technology, at least not at the rate that capitalist countries have done the same.

the point was that your american computers aren't even really american anymore.

A companies is British if it is owned and registered in the UK. Just because it has factories elsewhere does not make it less British.

[Nuroblav]

Oh hey it's this comic again.

You dislike capitalism...yet you exist in capitalism?

Haha vuvzuela bottom text 100 million dead.

But let's get back on track

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

When PRC owns the executive power in your "British" company is it still "British"?

[Vassenor]

the soviet computers failed and western computers succeeded was due to a variety of factors of which "capitalism good communism bad" is not a primary one. british computers also failed but you don't put that down to a failure of capitalism for what should be obvious reasons.

British computers failed because they could not compete with other producers on the free market. The point about communism is that it did not come to survive the modern age, nor did communist countries produce any goods that have had noticeable impact on world technology, at least not at the rate that capitalist countries have done the same.

the point was that your american computers aren't even really american anymore.

A companies is British if it is owned and registered in the UK. Just because it has factories elsewhere does not make it less British.

I built this computer myself. Ergo British-made computers are not dead.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

British computers failed because they could not compete with other producers on the free market. The point about communism is that it did not come to survive the modern age, nor did communist countries produce any goods that have had noticeable impact on world technology, at least not at the rate that capitalist countries have done the same.


A companies is British if it is owned and registered in the UK. Just because it has factories elsewhere does not make it less British.

I built this computer myself. Ergo British-made computers are not dead.

No really Vass.
If PRC appointed goons owns the executive power in a so-called "British" company is it still "British"?

[-Ra-]

those events are irrelevant to whether or not they pulled millions of peasants out of poverty. the fact that the soviet union transformed russia from a backwards serf state to an industrialized super power should speak for itself without going into detail.

You're assuming that industrialisation somehow lifted millions of peasants out of poverty. It didn't.

Not to mention the fact that that industrialisation came with the deaths of up to 7.5 million peasants...

How can you lift peasants out of poverty if you kill them all lol?

[Vassenor]

I built this computer myself. Ergo British-made computers are not dead.

No really Vass.
If PRC appointed goons owns the executive power in a so-called "British" company is it still "British"?

What does that have to do with what I said?

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

those events are irrelevant to whether or not they pulled millions of peasants out of poverty. the fact that the soviet union transformed russia from a backwards serf state to an industrialized super power should speak for itself without going into detail.

You're assuming that industrialisation somehow lifted millions of peasants out of poverty. It didn't.

Not to mention the fact that that industrialisation came with the deaths of up to 7.5 million peasants...

How can you lift peasants out of poverty if you kill them all lol?

Tedpilled?

[Souseiseki]

abolishing tuition fees and getting rid of austerity would not be very thatcherite

Abolishing tuition fees would be peak Thatcherism. And I'm not talking about the Conservatives not doing austerity, I'm talking about them placing the burden on grandma instead of the young.

how would it be peak thathcerism? i guess i can see the argument but i am not convinced.

British computers failed because they could not compete with other producers on the free market. The point about communism is that it did not come to survive the modern age, nor did communist countries produce any goods that have had noticeable impact on world technology, at least not at the rate that capitalist countries have done the same.

again, the soviet union was the world's second super power. it's mathematicians and scientists were legendary. the united states had repeated panics about how the soviet education system may be out competing them. you are deliberately downplaying their efforts because they did not make as many fancy consumer goods.

A companies is British if it is owned and registered in the UK. Just because it has factories elsewhere does not make it less British.

well shit, i guess i'll just get some random chinese guy to buy and american computer company and boom commie computers. problem solved.

You're assuming that industrialisation somehow lifted millions of peasants out of poverty. It didn't.

it did. contrary to popular western belief, the soviet union was not a place where the oppressed masses lived in rags and panhandled for scraps of bread to feed their starving children. for most of the soviet unions latter half the average soviet citizen had an average life.

Not to mention the fact that that industrialisation came with the deaths of up to 7.5 million peasants...

How can you lift peasants out of poverty if you kill them all lol?

industralization was deeply unpleasant for the UK as well.

stalin did not personally kill every single soviet citizen

[Salandriagado]

I mean, you don't have to pay for it. I use the website and haven't payed for a TV licence in years.

Actually it seems you a breaking the law
You are required to have the license to:
“watch or stream programmes live on an online TV service (such as ITV Hub, All 4, YouTube, Amazon Prime Video, Now TV, Sky Go, etc.)
“This applies to any device you use, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder.”
https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one

In all fairness the law is so damn vague and it seems poorly enforced, it might be a stupid law, but it seems you might be a criminal now...

The law specifically only applies to things that are being broadcast simultaneously on TV (or iPlayer).

[-Ra-]

again, the soviet union was the world's second super power. it's mathematicians and scientists were legendary. the united states had repeated panics about how the soviet education system may be out competing them. you are deliberately downplaying their efforts because they did not make as many fancy consumer goods.

Iran has produced some great scientists and mathematicians. Therefore, we should be more like Iran.

it did. contrary to popular western belief, the soviet union was not a place where the oppressed masses lived in rags and panhandled for scraps of bread to feed their starving children. for most of the soviet unions latter half the average soviet citizen had an average life.

"Contrary to popular western belief, North Korea is not a place where the oppressed masses lived in rags and panhandled for scraps of bread to feed their starving children. for most of the North Korea's recent history half the average Korean had an average life."

industralization was deeply unpleasant for the UK as well.

And yet in the UK it never resulted in the murder of 7.5 million people orchestrated by the state.

stalin did not personally kill every single soviet citizen

LMAO this is like saying Hitler did not personally kill every single Jew in the Holocaust.

[Salandriagado]

the soviet computers failed and western computers succeeded was due to a variety of factors of which "capitalism good communism bad" is not a primary one. british computers also failed but you don't put that down to a failure of capitalism for what should be obvious reasons.

British computers failed because they could not compete with other producers on the free market.

Really? Because it seems to me like we produced the single largest CPU manufacturer in the world.

[-Ra-]

British computers failed because they could not compete with other producers on the free market.

Really? Because it seems to me like we produced the single largest CPU manufacturer in the world.

Intel is American iirc.

[Salandriagado]

Really? Because it seems to me like we produced the single largest CPU manufacturer in the world.

Intel is American iirc.

And is the second largest CPU manufacturer.

[-Ra-]

Intel is American iirc.

And is the second largest CPU manufacturer.

What's the largest then?

[Salandriagado]

And is the second largest CPU manufacturer.

What's the largest then?

ARM.

[-Ra-]

What's the largest then?

ARM.

Oh I hadn't heard of them.

I guess capitalism has benefited British society after all.

[Souseiseki]

Iran has produced some great scientists and mathematicians. Therefore, we should be more like Iran.

never said that. the problem is that you're pretending the soviet union was some mordor like hellhole. if you were saying the same for iran i would have the same response.

though now you mention it while the soviet union was not perfect the idea of a guaranteed job after free university along with proactive efforts to end hunger* and homelessness look pretty good compared to the current status of the UK.

*don't make me pull out the CIA doc showing that the average soviet citizen had a decent diet and a similar caloric intake to the average american.

"Contrary to popular western belief, North Korea is not a place where the oppressed masses lived in rags and panhandled for scraps of bread to feed their starving children. for most of the North Korea's recent history half the average Korean had an average life."

north korea actually was the better korea in its early days, but the collapse of the socialist bloc and famines have rendered it a bad place at current. though this is not really relevant since the soviet union is not comparable to north korea. you have created an extreme version of the soviet union in the 1930s then extrapolated it to the whole of soviet history which is ridiculous.

And yet in the UK it never resulted in the murder of 7.5 million people orchestrated by the state.

thank god the UK is a wonderful place where the government never oppressed or killed anyone lol. the soviet union was forced to industrialize within a short time period to ensure its own survival against the external threats posed by the US/UK and germany/italy and this naturally make the process more unpleasant.

LMAO this is like saying Hitler did not personally kill every single Jew in the Holocaust.

i mean if you wanna go there then yes. imagine someone trying to argue that germany wasn't one of the most powerful countries in the world and the average german was not well off because the holocaust happened. i hope we don't need to go into why "germany was poor because the holocaust happened" would be a terrible terrible argument.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Abolishing tuition fees would be peak Thatcherism. And I'm not talking about the Conservatives not doing austerity, I'm talking about them placing the burden on grandma instead of the young.

how would it be peak thathcerism? i guess i can see the argument but i am not convinced.

Student debt is one of the main barriers to anyone under the age of 35 participating in the property-owning democracy. Giving free stuff to a group that votes for you is peak Thatcherism, see the massive pay rise she gave to the police. Also who do you think would be paying for all these middle and upper class children to go to university (where many of them are not actually doing much learning but rather just going for the SOCIAL EXPERIENCE of freshers' week, drugs, partying, sex, etc.).

[The New California Republic]

ARM.

Oh I hadn't heard of them.

...you've seriously never heard of ARM? Lol.

[-Ra-]

never said that. the problem is that you're pretending the soviet union was some mordor like hellhole. if you were saying the same for iran i would have the same response.

But it was a mordor-like hellhole. It was a totalitarian, one-party state with little political freedom or civil rights. Wherever these things did come, it was after extensive policies of glasnost and perestroika, and yet not even that could save the Soviet Union from falling.

though now you mention it while the soviet union was not perfect the idea of a guaranteed job after free university along with proactive efforts to end hunger* and homelessness look pretty good compared to the current status of the UK.

Tfw you end hunger and homelessnes by letting all of the hungry people starve to death.

My government controls what I can say and disappears people who disagree with the party but it's fine because it provides me with a terribly mediocre "free" education.

north korea actually was the better korea in its early days, but the collapse of the socialist bloc and famines have rendered it a bad place at current. though this is not really relevant since the soviet union is not comparable to north korea. you have created an extreme version of the soviet union in the 1930s then extrapolated it to the whole of soviet history which is ridiculous.

The better Korea, ladies and gentlemen

thank god the UK is a wonderful place where the government never oppressed or killed anyone lol. the soviet union was forced to industrialize within a short time period to ensure its own survival against the external threats posed by the US/UK and germany/italy and this naturally make the process more unpleasant.

B B B BUT THE OTHER SIDE WAS BAD TOO!

I like how this is the excuse for the slaughter of millions of people. People in the UK are at the top of the world because our ancestors worked hard during the industrial revolution. 7.5 million people died in the Soviet Union, and then it ended up collapsing anyway.

i mean if you wanna go there then yes. imagine someone trying to argue that germany wasn't one of the most powerful countries in the world and the average german was not well off because the holocaust happened. i hope we don't need to go into why "germany was poor because the holocaust happened" would be a terrible terrible argument.

Nobody here is trying to argue that the Soviet Union wasn't powerful. It was. The Soviet Union was a powerful Mordor-like shithole. The Soviet Union's power is more attributable to its size than to communism really.