Large explosion in Beirut - hundreds reported injured

[Northwest Slobovia]

Both countries appear to have perfectly good coastal highways. There is a rail gap between Nahariya and somewhere close to the Israel-Lebanon border -- I can't tell where Lebanon's railways end in their south -- but I suspect that if it was necessary and desirableable, a single-track line could be put into operation relatively fast, especially since there was once a line there.

Yes ideally Lebanon swallows their pride now and asks for help and Israel immediately begins connecting road and rail.

It takes time.

I'm not seeing that the Lebanese have many easy choices at this point, and the Israelis seem to always need improvements in their foreign relations. I imagine a marriage of convenience could be worked out, especially with European help/pressure. (I'm assuming the US will do nothing useful in this situation.)

[The New California Republic]

A good article that summarises the disaster.

This part is interesting, and sits well with the ~1.5 kiloton estimate I gave earlier:

Comparisons with other explosive materials are often imprecise and misleading, but a former British Army bomb disposal expert says the Beirut blast was the equivalent of 1-2 kilotons of TNT. Some estimates have even been slightly higher than that.

I'm sure there will eventually be an "official" estimate that is given in the coming weeks and months, once all of the investigations have been completed and the data put into a computer model that is more precise.

[Greed and Death]

Yes ideally Lebanon swallows their pride now and asks for help and Israel immediately begins connecting road and rail.

It takes time.

I'm not seeing that the Lebanese have many easy choices at this point, and the Israelis seem to always need improvements in their foreign relations. I imagine a marriage of convenience could be worked out, especially with European help/pressure. (I'm assuming the US will do nothing useful in this situation.)

The concern I have is starvation is a month away Lebanon might not swallow their pride until the last minute.

[The New California Republic]

From the article I just posted:

Whatever started the fire, it led to a small crew of firefighters being sent to deal with it. Nine men and one woman were outside Warehouse 12 when the blast occurred. All are now missing.

My heart goes out to them, it really does. They probably thought it was a routine callout, and didn't realize how dangerous the materials in the warehouse actually were. Looking at the crater and the blast effects, I doubt any trace of them will ever be found. If there is one small sliver of consolation, if it can be called that, it's that due to the speed and power of what happened they wouldn't have felt anything, and they most likely weren't even aware of what was happening.

[Greed and Death]

From the article I just posted:

Whatever started the fire, it led to a small crew of firefighters being sent to deal with it. Nine men and one woman were outside Warehouse 12 when the blast occurred. All are now missing.

My heart goes out to them, it really does. They probably thought it was a routine callout, and didn't realize how dangerous the materials in the warehouse actually were. Looking at the crater and the blast effects, I doubt any trace of them will ever be found. If there is one small sliver of consolation, if it can be called that, it's that due to the speed and power of what happened they wouldn't have felt anything, and they most likely weren't even aware of what was happening.

They will likely find limbs, fingers, and teeth. Dna testing will be needed to identify them.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-big-was-the-explosion-that-devastated-beirut-moab-2020-8

Estimates are the blast was between a few hundred tons and a kiloton of TNT equivalent.

Like someone used a Davy Crockett. About that big.

The Davy Crockett only had a yield of 10-20 tons so not quite.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/middleea ... index.html

Sounds like the Ammonium Nitrate was shipped to Lebanon for mining operations, but the supply that was gonna be used over the course of maybe months to blow through the earth instead all went off at once, blowing Beirut off the face of the earth.

[Rusozak]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/middleeast/beirut-lebanon-ammonium-nitrate-explosion/index.html

Sounds like the Ammonium Nitrate was shipped to Lebanon for mining operations, but the supply that was gonna be used over the course of maybe months to blow through the earth instead all went off at once, blowing Beirut off the face of the earth.

Maybe the next time a shipment of nearly 3000 tons of an extremely volatile substance doesn't reach its destination, more alarms will be raised.

[Novus America]

From the article I just posted:

Whatever started the fire, it led to a small crew of firefighters being sent to deal with it. Nine men and one woman were outside Warehouse 12 when the blast occurred. All are now missing.

My heart goes out to them, it really does. They probably thought it was a routine callout, and didn't realize how dangerous the materials in the warehouse actually were. Looking at the crater and the blast effects, I doubt any trace of them will ever be found. If there is one small sliver of consolation, if it can be called that, it's that due to the speed and power of what happened they wouldn't have felt anything, and they most likely weren't even aware of what was happening.

They will likely find limbs, fingers, and teeth. Dna testing will be needed to identify them.

Not so sure, the building is now a lake. Nothing is left of the building, the whole site is a flooded crater.

[Novus America]

Also from the videos clearly we need to start teaching duck and cover. People after the first explosion run to look out the window, only fir the second bigger one to shred them with flying glass. Seriously if you hear an explosion immediately drop flat to the floor, if you are at a desk hide under it.

[Thermodolia]

They will likely find limbs, fingers, and teeth. Dna testing will be needed to identify them.

Not so sure, the building is now a lake. Nothing is left of the building, the whole sight is a flooded crater.

They might find some body parts.

[Novus America]

Not so sure, the building is now a lake. Nothing is left of the building, the whole sight is a flooded crater.

They might find some body parts.

Possibly. Although some might be lost under the water.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Not so sure, the building is now a lake. Nothing is left of the building, the whole sight is a flooded crater.

They might find some body parts.

Probably were incinerated. If they're lucky, they'll find ash tbh.

[Salandriagado]

The port of Beirut not counting the naval base (which is also unusable at the moment). Handles roughly 7,000 ships per year. The next largest port handles roughly 450 ships per year.

Is that a limitation of that port's capacity, or simply where ships go? I mean, not every port here on the US East Coast runs at full capacity all the time, and there's active competition between ports to attract ships (and the work and fees that go with them).

That being said, yes, the Israeli ports seem obviously useful. Haifa has a port to accommodate the largest container ships, so that seems the most useful, since Akko's/Acre's port looks pretty small, despite it being closer to the border

The total frontage of that second largest port seems to be ~2km. Beirut's is ~6km (found by drawing lines on google maps across the bits with ships in the satelite images, so likely wildly inaccurate). That (was) likely backed up with massively larger infrastructure behind the front.

[Greed and Death]

Is that a limitation of that port's capacity, or simply where ships go? I mean, not every port here on the US East Coast runs at full capacity all the time, and there's active competition between ports to attract ships (and the work and fees that go with them).

That being said, yes, the Israeli ports seem obviously useful. Haifa has a port to accommodate the largest container ships, so that seems the most useful, since Akko's/Acre's port looks pretty small, despite it being closer to the border

The total frontage of that second largest port seems to be ~2km. Beirut's is ~6km (found by drawing lines on google maps across the bits with ships in the satelite images, so likely wildly inaccurate). That (was) likely backed up with massively larger infrastructure behind the front.

My understanding is the second port is break bulk shipping only. Break bulk for those not familiar means the goods are shipped individually rather than in a cargo container. This means it takes much longer to load and unload a ship.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/middleeast/beirut-lebanon-ammonium-nitrate-explosion/index.html

Sounds like the Ammonium Nitrate was shipped to Lebanon for mining operations, but the supply that was gonna be used over the course of maybe months to blow through the earth instead all went off at once, blowing Beirut off the face of the earth.

Not mining in Lebanon though. Mozambique. The captain made an emergency stop in Beirut: sounds as though the Russian crew were on the brink of mutiny due to not being paid or fed properly. When it became apparent they weren't going to be paid they deserted. Then the Lebanese government got involved and in a big brain move, drained the fuel from the ship and sold it to pay for port costs. So the ship sat there for a while until the government, presumably worried the ship would sink all by itself, offloaded the AN.

Point though, is that the start of the problem wasn't the Lebanese government at all. It was some dodgy shipping company not paying its workers. I suppose the government could have refused letting the ship in to dock, but that would hardly have been a responsible thing.

[Purpelia]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/middleeast/beirut-lebanon-ammonium-nitrate-explosion/index.html

Sounds like the Ammonium Nitrate was shipped to Lebanon for mining operations, but the supply that was gonna be used over the course of maybe months to blow through the earth instead all went off at once, blowing Beirut off the face of the earth.

Not mining in Lebanon though. Mozambique. The captain made an emergency stop in Beirut: sounds as though the Russian crew were on the brink of mutiny due to not being paid or fed properly. When it became apparent they weren't going to be paid they deserted. Then the Lebanese government got involved and in a big brain move, drained the fuel from the ship and sold it to pay for port costs. So the ship sat there for a while until the government, presumably worried the ship would sink all by itself, offloaded the AN.

Point though, is that the start of the problem wasn't the Lebanese government at all. It was some dodgy shipping company not paying its workers. I suppose the government could have refused letting the ship in to dock, but that would hardly have been a responsible thing.

Because the government is not at fault for storing a literal warehouse sized bomb in the middle of a major city. Nope. No fault there.

[Galloism]

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-big-was-the-explosion-that-devastated-beirut-moab-2020-8

Estimates are the blast was between a few hundred tons and a kiloton of TNT equivalent.

Like someone used a Davy Crockett. About that big.

The Davy Crockett only had a yield of 10-20 tons so not quite.

You’re right - I had crossed the Davy Crockett with SADM, which was up to a kiloton.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Not mining in Lebanon though. Mozambique. The captain made an emergency stop in Beirut: sounds as though the Russian crew were on the brink of mutiny due to not being paid or fed properly. When it became apparent they weren't going to be paid they deserted. Then the Lebanese government got involved and in a big brain move, drained the fuel from the ship and sold it to pay for port costs. So the ship sat there for a while until the government, presumably worried the ship would sink all by itself, offloaded the AN.

Point though, is that the start of the problem wasn't the Lebanese government at all. It was some dodgy shipping company not paying its workers. I suppose the government could have refused letting the ship in to dock, but that would hardly have been a responsible thing.

Because the government is not at fault for storing a literal warehouse sized bomb in the middle of a major city. Nope. No fault there.

Oh yes, you're right Purpelia. Thankyou for that informative and insightful critique.

[Fartsniffage]

Different video. From a moving car this time.

https://i.imgur.com/1TRiSng.mp4

[The New California Republic]

Different video. From a moving car this time.

https://i.imgur.com/1TRiSng.mp4

He was really close. There was next to no time between the detonation and the windows imploding.

[Ethel mermania]

Because the government is not at fault for storing a literal warehouse sized bomb in the middle of a major city. Nope. No fault there.

Oh yes, you're right Purpelia. Thankyou for that informative and insightful critique.

He is right, governments have laws and rules as to how stuff is stored particularly highly inflammatory material. Why this was not enforced is on the government. How they knew about it and let it sit is a crime. It should be a capital one.

[Vistulange]

Yes I saw that on the BBC a couple of days ago. Never had that happen on a Zoom call before.

That would be funny if we were having one of our happy hours and someone got thrown up against a wall right in the middle by a huge explosion...not killed or injured, just thrown up against the wall.

Your sense of humour is pretty crappy, Rojava.

There's nothing funny about an explosion happening near anybody.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Oh yes, you're right Purpelia. Thankyou for that informative and insightful critique.

He is right, governments have laws and rules as to how stuff is stored particularly highly inflammatory material. Why this was not enforced is on the government. How they knew about it and let it sit is a crime. It should be a capital one.

In my own defense, I was only describing the early stages of the debacle. I did not exonerate the government, they handled it terribly after it was on the dock. However the shit would never have been on an unseaworthy vessel with a near mutinous crew, and it never would have come into Beirut harbor at all, if not for the criminal mismanagement of the owner of the ship.

It was stored unsafely on the dock. But it was only necessary to take it off the ship because it was stored unsafely there too. I'm not going to try to apportion the blame in numbers, between the ship owner and the Lebanon government, but I insist that the ship owner does bear some of the blame.

[Heloin]

He is right, governments have laws and rules as to how stuff is stored particularly highly inflammatory material. Why this was not enforced is on the government. How they knew about it and let it sit is a crime. It should be a capital one.

In my own defense, I was only describing the early stages of the debacle. I did not exonerate the government, they handled it terribly after it was on the dock. However the shit would never have been on an unseaworthy vessel with a near mutinous crew, and it never would have come into Beirut harbor at all, if not for the criminal mismanagement of the owner of the ship.

It was stored unsafely on the dock. But it was only necessary to take it off the ship because it was stored unsafely there too. I'm not going to try to apportion the blame in numbers, between the ship owner and the Lebanon government, but I insist that the ship owner does bear some of the blame.

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

The ship owners are no more to blame really then whomever first synthesised synthetic ammonium nitrate. Sure there is the story of an awful shipping company and it's boat with dangerous cargo that needed was seized, but once that cargo was seized it stopped having anything to do with the owners of that ship. Finding the initial cause for everything may be important but assigning blame to the ship owners for what happened is as useless as blaming welders for not having the hindsight that they were actually working next to a bomb.