I've never claimed he wasn't. I don't like Bush.
But he wasn't literally Hitler the way the left tried to paint him back then, and neither is Trump now.
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by Diopolis » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:14 pm
by The Black Forrest » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:16 pm
Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Trump's a bigger threat to democracy and rule of law than Bush was.
Though frankly, I had a problem with it back then too but just sugar-coated it (relatively) more.
Oh please. Donald J. Trump may be good at playing reality TV tactics to get elected, but there's no way in hell that you could convince me that he is competent or ill-intentioned enough to tear down American democracy.
I mean, he's not literally Hitler for crying out loud. He's just a businessman. And this is coming from a guy that doesn't even like Trump for being so centrist.
by Diopolis » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:19 pm
The Black Forrest wrote:Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Oh please. Donald J. Trump may be good at playing reality TV tactics to get elected, but there's no way in hell that you could convince me that he is competent or ill-intentioned enough to tear down American democracy.
I mean, he's not literally Hitler for crying out loud. He's just a businessman. And this is coming from a guy that doesn't even like Trump for being so centrist.
Is he now?
Making people distrust the Press? Check
Making people distrust the legal system? Check.
Making people trust corrupt law enforcement? Check.
Making people distrust experts? Check.
Working to improve our enemies? Check.
Working against our allies? Check.
He is a crap businessman, a horrible negotiator and works against our interests.
Trump is the kind of guy who if aliens conquered the US; he would offer to run the place for them.
by La Xinga » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:26 pm
by Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:33 pm
The Black Forrest wrote:Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Oh please. Donald J. Trump may be good at playing reality TV tactics to get elected, but there's no way in hell that you could convince me that he is competent or ill-intentioned enough to tear down American democracy.
I mean, he's not literally Hitler for crying out loud. He's just a businessman. And this is coming from a guy that doesn't even like Trump for being so centrist.
Is he now?
Making people distrust the Press? Check
Making people distrust the legal system? Check.
Making people trust corrupt law enforcement? Check.
Making people distrust experts? Check.
Working to improve our enemies? Check.
Working against our allies? Check.
He is a crap businessman, a horrible negotiator and works against our interests.
Trump is the kind of guy who if aliens conquered the US; he would offer to run the place for them.
by -Astoria- » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:35 pm
Go back a bit; start again.La xinga wrote:Religious people are more Republican while Atheists are more Democrat, while not entirely exact, they vote for yeah.
Plus, this OP seems anti-Trump and anti-religion biased. Who said Trump is bad? And even more, what does religion have to do with this?
On the Bible contradiction part, yeah, people have found answers for that. And you really, really, did not need to throw anti-religious bias into this, but your wish. Anyway, really, really, really, what about Muslims?
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by La Xinga » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:40 pm
-Astoria- wrote:Go back a bit; start again.La xinga wrote:Religious people are more Republican while Atheists are more Democrat, while not entirely exact, they vote for yeah.
Plus, this OP seems anti-Trump and anti-religion biased. Who said Trump is bad? And even more, what does religion have to do with this?
On the Bible contradiction part, yeah, people have found answers for that. And you really, really, did not need to throw anti-religious bias into this, but your wish. Anyway, really, really, really, what about Muslims?
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:42 pm
by Diopolis » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:45 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Why does Jerry Falwell Jr. like Trump? What happened to those family values and morality?
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:50 pm
Diopolis wrote:Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Why does Jerry Falwell Jr. like Trump? What happened to those family values and morality?
Religious Christians- and other religious people- have always cared more about a leaders policies than their personal behavior. This isn't new. Sometimes it's theologically justified(Roman Catholicism, for example) sometimes it's not(most Arminian protestants), and sometimes the denomination in question acts all confused when you ask them to justify it theologically, but it is a universal rule.
by Diopolis » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:51 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Diopolis wrote:Religious Christians- and other religious people- have always cared more about a leaders policies than their personal behavior. This isn't new. Sometimes it's theologically justified(Roman Catholicism, for example) sometimes it's not(most Arminian protestants), and sometimes the denomination in question acts all confused when you ask them to justify it theologically, but it is a universal rule.
It isnt even that he chose him as a lesser of evils though. Falwell legit seems to believe Trump was born again, which most people understand is simply not true.
by Shofercia » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:54 pm
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:In 2016, I recall hearing people blame MRAs for Trump, as if he didn't himself invoke misandrous-sounding rhetoric like "a lot of these refugees are men" or as if the supposed alternative; feminism; even had any real definition at all.
In 2020, I get mistaken for a Trump supporter whenever I express rhetoric similar to his on China.
However, there is one thing that actually does correlate; far more incontrovertibly, at least; with support for Donald Trump. And that thing is something people feel a lot more uncomfortable blaming for his election.
The popularity of religion.
(Image)
(Image)
People often like to argue Trump isn't a true Christian. I wouldn't be shocked if he's faking it and all, but there's no metric by which to gauge this. You could argue his lifestyle contradicts the Bible; but that would leave behind the question, what parts? So long as the Bible is so notoriously contradictory, is it any shock that people who ignore the Bible's contradictions would ignore Trump's too?
What I would presume is that when religion sets a precedent for a lack of critical thinking; which it most definitely does by using an unproven afterlife to bribe people into accepting its unproven claims; it sets a precedent for charlatans in the real world to do the same with crazy promises about the real world. I'm not shocked devout Christians tend to be Trump supporters; I'm shocked there are Christians who are otherwise progressive.
What say you, NSG?
by Shofercia » Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:58 pm
Vassenor wrote:Who the fuck blamed religion for Trump?
Vistulange wrote:LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:That's a copout. The stronger a correlation, the less likely a coincidence, and the more likely either one factor caused the other or; in this case, more likely, some external factor caused both.
A thousand quantitative scientists cried out in anguish at this statement.
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:I dont see how someone can support trump and be all about religious values. I'm sorry but the man is an adulterer and has said he doesn't need God's forgiveness, so he's well outside the boundaries of Christian morality.
The Black Forrest wrote:Sicilian Imperial-Capitalist Empire wrote:Oh please. Donald J. Trump may be good at playing reality TV tactics to get elected, but there's no way in hell that you could convince me that he is competent or ill-intentioned enough to tear down American democracy.
I mean, he's not literally Hitler for crying out loud. He's just a businessman. And this is coming from a guy that doesn't even like Trump for being so centrist.
Is he now?
Making people distrust the Press? Check
Making people distrust the legal system? Check.
Making people trust corrupt law enforcement? Check.
Making people distrust experts? Check.
Working to improve our enemies? Check.
Working against our allies? Check.
He is a crap businessman, a horrible negotiator and works against our interests.
Trump is the kind of guy who if aliens conquered the US; he would offer to run the place for them.
Diopolis wrote:Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Why does Jerry Falwell Jr. like Trump? What happened to those family values and morality?
Religious Christians- and other religious people- have always cared more about a leaders policies than their personal behavior. This isn't new. Sometimes it's theologically justified(Roman Catholicism, for example) sometimes it's not(most Arminian protestants), and sometimes the denomination in question acts all confused when you ask them to justify it theologically, but it is a universal rule.
by Katganistan » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:02 pm
by -Astoria- » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:02 pm
When you say "what about", it damages your point (ie a whataboutism).
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by Outer Acharet » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:04 pm
News? What news? News is for people who don't have a bloated military-industrial complex strangling their apparatus of state. Wait, that sounds like a bad thing, doesn't it?
by Wahlid » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:05 pm
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:I dont see how someone can support trump and be all about religious values. I'm sorry but the man is an adulterer and has said he doesn't need God's forgiveness, so he's well outside the boundaries of Christian morality.
by La Xinga » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:06 pm
by Wahlid » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:09 pm
Outer Acharet wrote:
Oh, yeah. That's a thing. It's no wonder that poor white rural voters went for Trump. Look at Democratic politicians, and you see their arguments tie poverty into race a lot of the time, and so poor minorities have attention drawn to their problems, while poor whites get called white trash, have people joke about "tornado in a trailer park", are assumed to be inbred, don't get any positive reinforcements on their lives, are ridiculously stereotyped, and are culturally isolated from the rest of America.
Combine a poor liberal arts and sciences education, a history of abandonment by politicians on both sides, and a leader who both promises he'll look after you and riles you up against a convenient scapegoat, and it's no surprise there was a red wave in 2016.
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:11 pm
Outer Acharet wrote:
Oh, yeah. That's a thing. It's no wonder that poor white rural voters went for Trump. Look at Democratic politicians, and you see their arguments tie poverty into race a lot of the time, and so poor minorities have attention drawn to their problems, while poor whites get called white trash, have people joke about "tornado in a trailer park", are assumed to be inbred, don't get any positive reinforcements on their lives, are ridiculously stereotyped, and are culturally isolated from the rest of America.
Combine a poor liberal arts and sciences education, a history of abandonment by politicians on both sides, and a leader who both promises he'll look after you and riles you up against a convenient scapegoat, and it's no surprise there was a red wave in 2016.
by Atheris » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:47 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:49 pm
Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.
by Atheris » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:50 pm
by La Xinga » Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:51 pm
Atheris wrote:Blaming religion for Trump is like blaming science for tear gas.
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