I have every confidence that you can live with your discomfort, safe in the knowledge that innocent lives are protected from wrongful execution.
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by Ifreann » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:15 am
by Neanderthaland » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:11 pm
by Kowani » Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:33 pm
by Purpelia » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:04 pm
by Crockerland » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:31 pm
Ifreann wrote:Prison is bad, therefore the state should have far greater power to kill people it doesn't like. Strange, strange reasoning.
by The New California Republic » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:36 pm
by Purpelia » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:54 pm
Crockerland wrote:Ifreann wrote:Prison is bad, therefore the state should have far greater power to kill people it doesn't like. Strange, strange reasoning.
Does make sense for certain crimes. Prison rapists, for example - putting them to death would improve the conditions for other prisoners and make prisons more safe.
by USS Monitor » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:01 pm
by Neanderthaland » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:21 pm
by Galloism » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:29 pm
Neanderthaland wrote:If there's any punishment where you want to make absolutely sure you've got the right guy, it's this one.
So no.
by Neanderthaland » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:10 pm
Galloism wrote:Neanderthaland wrote:If there's any punishment where you want to make absolutely sure you've got the right guy, it's this one.
So no.
Functionally, this is the type of argument that we should pause and consider whether we should do the death penalty at all, barring the case where a person is literally too dangerous to be kept alive in any location.
Hush Mace windu. I’m tired of these motherfuckin Jedi in this motherfuckin office.
I’m not necessarily against the notion that some are deserving of death. But I question our ability to deal it out fairly and without error. We know black people and men (and, unsurprisingly, especially black men) have gotten the death penalty far far more often, which undercuts the notion of fairness.
Meanwhile, we have literally exonerated people days before execution or uncovered exculpatory evidence after death, which undercuts the notion of being without error.
by Cekoviu » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:12 pm
by Galloism » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:14 pm
Neanderthaland wrote:Galloism wrote:Functionally, this is the type of argument that we should pause and consider whether we should do the death penalty at all, barring the case where a person is literally too dangerous to be kept alive in any location.
Hush Mace windu. I’m tired of these motherfuckin Jedi in this motherfuckin office.
I’m not necessarily against the notion that some are deserving of death. But I question our ability to deal it out fairly and without error. We know black people and men (and, unsurprisingly, especially black men) have gotten the death penalty far far more often, which undercuts the notion of fairness.
Meanwhile, we have literally exonerated people days before execution or uncovered exculpatory evidence after death, which undercuts the notion of being without error.
Pretty much this.
I mean, if we lived in the Batman universe, where locking up criminals works for -at most- ten minutes before they're out committing crimes again, then the death penalty might have more justification. But in the real world there's very few cases where it is actually necessary.
And it's not like American prisons are such a wonderful place that they're "getting off easy" if they have to spend the rest of their lives in one.
by Neanderthaland » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:18 pm
Galloism wrote:Neanderthaland wrote:Pretty much this.
I mean, if we lived in the Batman universe, where locking up criminals works for -at most- ten minutes before they're out committing crimes again, then the death penalty might have more justification. But in the real world there's very few cases where it is actually necessary.
And it's not like American prisons are such a wonderful place that they're "getting off easy" if they have to spend the rest of their lives in one.
I would generally allow life without parole prisoners choose death if they preferred.
If I was a lifer in Colorado Supermax, I’d choose death most likely.
by Salus Maior » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:26 pm
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote: Why not scrap the appeals process and tell the trial judge to get it right the first time?
by Vetalia » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:27 pm
Purpelia wrote:But do we want prisons to be safe? If prison is not a place of suffering than why would people want to stay away from it?
by Gormwood » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:34 pm
Vetalia wrote:Purpelia wrote:But do we want prisons to be safe? If prison is not a place of suffering than why would people want to stay away from it?
Pretty sure being locked in a cell with limited amenities and virtually all of your freedoms taken away, to say nothing of the long-term consequences even if you get out, is more than enough of a deterrent. In fact, the countries with the worst prisons in the world also have the highest crime rates...
by The Lone Alliance » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:54 pm
by Gormwood » Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:59 pm
by Shanghai industrial complex » Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:49 pm
Page wrote:The death penalty shouldn't exist and prisoners shouldn't be at risk of bodily harm. It works just fine for Norway.
by The Free Joy State » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:50 pm
Ethel mermania wrote:Thepeopl wrote:Death is a release from imprisonment. It is the ultimate freedom. The prisoner will never have to obey anything anymore.
The worst punishment there is, is taking away someone's
freedom, the ability to make decisions for themselves.
Nah, Mason was able to get laid, cut an album, write a book, get married. Lotta free Choices there.
by Nobel Hobos 2 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:56 pm
The Free Joy State wrote:The death penalty should be scrapped. It is more expensive than life in prison, completely ineffective as a deterrent, and there are a high number of people executed who are subsequently found innocent.
If individual countries insist on keeping it, suspects deserve the right to a fair appeals process, where evidence will be heard in open court. Otherwise, the death penalty could be used as a tool of terror against innocent parties.
by The Free Joy State » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:03 pm
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:The Free Joy State wrote:The death penalty should be scrapped. It is more expensive than life in prison, completely ineffective as a deterrent, and there are a high number of people executed who are subsequently found innocent.
If individual countries insist on keeping it, suspects deserve the right to a fair appeals process, where evidence will be heard in open court. Otherwise, the death penalty could be used as a tool of terror against innocent parties.
To play devil's advocate for a moment, the appeals process is a large part of why DP is so expensive. And the appeals process may make DP less effective as a deterrent (by delaying executions).
That second point is a "maybe". The DP may be ineffective as a deterrent anyway. It's the wrongful executions that stand most strongly against the death penalty, imo. Also the State setting an example which citizens can too easily follow: if someone is an intractable problem for the state or individual ... bump them off.
by Xmara » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:04 pm
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