The History of the Imperial War (OOC, TWI only)

[Aizcona]

Brulafi supposedly had a decent navy at the time, so perhaps remnants could be put under a Free Power and used sort of like the Polish Navy in World War II under the Brits. I guess it would just depend on what nation, because I can imagine most Brulafis would never serve under an Aizconan command.

I was just about to say that it couldn’t be under Aizcona haha

[Almorea]

Most of the Almorean navy's northern assets would be free to participate, but all the ships docked in southern ports would have been sunk or captured already by the Totzkans.

I'd say Almorea in 1945, after some rearmament, could send 2 battleships, 4 cruisers, and 7 or 8 destroyers, plus a few oilers... but most of the navy's destroyer fleet would have to serve on coastal defense duty, guarding the unoccupied and neutralized northern provinces (after the southern half of Almorea was occupied and annexed by Totzka/Rio do Ouro).

One of the Almorean battleships could explode during the fighting. Also, beware of mines in the Karnali Sea, because that would have been a hot zone for combat between myself and Dragao do Mar during the entire period after 1941. I expect it would be heavily mined, and littered with wreckage, likely some oil spills from destroyed tanker ships.

[Athara Magarat]

Scantarbian Navy can delegate several heavy submarines and one or two sub-carriers there.

Probably some surface ships as well, but I haven't thought much about my surface fleet during that period.

Awesome.

Brulafi supposedly had a decent navy at the time, so perhaps remnants could be put under a Free Power and used sort of like the Polish Navy in World War II under the Brits. I guess it would just depend on what nation, because I can imagine most Brulafis would never serve under an Aizconan command.

Brulafi supposedly had a decent navy at the time, so perhaps remnants could be put under a Free Power and used sort of like the Polish Navy in World War II under the Brits. I guess it would just depend on what nation, because I can imagine most Brulafis would never serve under an Aizconan command.

I was just about to say that it couldn’t be under Aizcona haha

Perhaps under overall Miklanian/Nornnican command? Mik, Noro, what say you guys?

Most of the Almorean navy's northern assets would be free to participate, but all the ships docked in southern ports would have been sunk or captured already by the Totzkans.

I'd say Almorea in 1945, after some rearmament, could send 2 battleships, 4 cruisers, and 7 or 8 destroyers, plus a few oilers... but most of the navy's destroyer fleet would have to serve on coastal defense duty, guarding the unoccupied and neutralized northern provinces (after the southern half of Almorea was occupied and annexed by Totzka/Rio do Ouro).

One of the Almorean battleships could explode during the fighting. Also, beware of mines in the Karnali Sea, because that would have been a hot zone for combat between myself and Dragao do Mar during the entire period after 1941. I expect it would be heavily mined, and littered with wreckage, likely some oil spills from destroyed tanker ships.

Aye. Thanks for all this info.

Also, can we have a list of Free Powers nations and who would be involved here with how many ships once again? We have exactly four Neo-Imperialists (New Totzka, Dragao do Mar, Keomora and myself) on this side of the Isles with Dormill and Stiura in Gael.

[Dragao do Mar]

1945 - Second Battle of Karnali Sea (Free Powers victory)

[...]
The Neo-Imperialist side is obviously going to be me, Keomora and Dragao do Mar's fleets (and perhaps New Totzka's Rio de Ouro as well...but IMO they were more busy with the Almorean Campaign than any other Neo-Imperialist power). We are going to have 5 carriers, 5 battleships, 10 heavy cruisers, 30 destroyers, 20 submarines and 5 oilers on our side plus roughly 400 carrier-based aircraft and round 200-300 land-based aircraft (I will be discussing the exact composition of Magarati, Keomoran, Marian and possibly Ouronan ships in this).
[...]

My navy would be technologically better than my army, so I'd take a part in most naval conflicts. To the Second Battle of Karnali Sea I'll send 2 carriers, 2 battleships, 4 heavy cruisers, 11 destroyers, 7 submarines and 2 oilers, and also 100 carrier based aircraft and 30 land-based aircraft.

And at 1945 me and Rio do Ouro might have some tank battles against Almorea.

[Alteran Republics]

I like this idea. Get some fighting going on down south. Segentova andAltera would probably develop a good relationship out of this; and though I can't speak for Altera, i think Segentova would have trust-issues with AM following the war.

I wouldn't mind getting involved.

I also suggest a tank battle between Alteran/Noronnican (and possibly Segentovan) against Magaratis in the Canal Front similar to this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Raseiniai

Personally I'd say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arras_(1940)

[Athara Magarat]

Personally I'd say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arras_(1940)

Interesting. Will do that.

Or we can have both

[Segentova]

Personally I'd say https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arras_(1940)

Interesting. Will do that.

Or we can have both :)

The more the merrier if you ask me!

[Ktismandrasi]

Government entering the Imperial War:
Ktismandrasi had fascist-style government throughout the later 1930s and the Imperial War, based around ideas of national “self-sufficiency,” which emphasised low imports and a strong military, which could preserve Ktismandrasi indefinitely. A significant underlying intellection pillar that justified this was the view of nations being like animals, which also gave birth to ideas about “the soul of Ktismandrasi” which ended up being a justification of racial policies against ethnic Santhals, though such grievances had been present for hundreds of years.
Ktismandrasi had a highly centralised and technocratic government, which emphasised a social order based on functionality and niche, as well as optimising each person for their particular end. Social identity became increasingly focused on occupation and skill, with children encouraged to pursue perfection in a particular field as their life’s goal. Ancient ideas of parts of the soul were also revived in this era, encouraging rational individuals, with a healthy dose of thumos, the vigorous and active part of the soul, which was enshrined by the establishment of a province along the ancient border of Gaionaxia, famous in all Ktismandrasi for its disclipine and military prowess.
The government itself was run by the Archon Giorgis Menexenos, who had gradually worked his way up through the republican government preceding his, and with the help of the military and a severe economic crisis, he initiated a coup and began gradually reshaping the government into an hierarchy of absolute rule, so that the small units of governments held enormous power, but were subject to the oversite of those above them, who in turn held great power, with himself at the time. Much of Ktismandrasi’s industry was consolidated and nationalised, though usually this was simply a matter of establishing the governments authority, and only later during the Imperial War did industry find itself forced to submit more to the governments demands. Often major companies retained all existing structures and personnel, only now they reported to Menexenos.
Mandatory public education, which while officially in effect was corrupt and weakly enforced, was overhauled, so that children from an early age were constantly assessed on their mental and physical ability, and given education appropriately. Traditional gender assignments were also loosened, especially later in the Imperial War, when a large percentage of men had been drafted into the army.

Objectives during the Imperial War (these are all very tentative):
[list][*]Annex parts of San Montagna
[*]Reunification of Neosarche under Ktismadnrasi (maybe even invade Roendavar…?)
[*] Maybe invade whoever is south of me

During the Imperial War:
While Ktismandrasi will necessarily side with the Neo-Imperialists, its relationship with them will be characterised more by mutual interest than by friendship. Relations with Athara Magarat will likely be particularly strained because of the persecutions of ethnic Santhals in Ktismandrasi.
The Neosarche Army (National Army of Ktismandrasi) at its height probably had no more than 500.000 men at any given point in the Imperial War, with half of that at the onset of the war. The navy would have a modernised dreadnought, several cruisers, and a smattering of destroyers and submarines. The air force would probably have between 150-300 aircraft, half of which would be fighters or bombers.
Army doctrine would be primarily aimed at landward invasion of San Montagna, and therefore have dedicated Mountain Infantry Divisions, and specialise in mountain warfare. Armour and motorisation would be limited, and pack animals would play an important role in equipment transportation. Strengths would include logistical planning and mountain combat, with weaknesses being lighter tanks and anti-tank weapons, limited mobility, and greater difficulty in large battles fought on open terrain.
The Navy’s doctrine would consist primarily of coastal defence, with plans for potential naval invasions of neighbouring nations. Coastal defence doctrine would primarily consist in maintaining small squadrons of fast attack craft in strategic locations which could conduct night attacks against invading flotillas, while a flying squadron of heavier units could patrol the coast and move to intercept a weaker invasion force or disrupt convoys. Coastal submarines and coastal defence ships would also participate in invasion repulsion or disruption. The Navy’s strengths would be in coastal defence, and it would emphasise speed and firepower in its heavier ship, at the cost of range and accuracy. It also would have highly limited power projection, and it submarine force would be hard pressed to engage in commerce war.
The Air Force’s doctrine was split between its primary goal of supporting the army, and its secondary goal of supporting the navy in attempts to repel coastal invasion. Dive bombers and fighters were its primary aircraft, with some patrol and medium range bombers, and two squadrons of torpedo bombers specially for the Navy. The Air Force’s strengths would primarily be in attacks against fixed targets and infantry support, with weaknesses in aircraft range and little strategic capability, since the Army held the most influence over the Air Force.

“Post” Imperial War:
Ktismandrasi’s fortunes during the war would most directly be tied to the war in San Montagna. Imminent defeat there, in addition to other factors (Anti-Imperialist propaganda?), would lead to Ktismandrasi dropping out of the war early, after a democratic coup and the secession of Gaionaxia (taking advantage of political instability and lack of military in the region). The democratic government would then eventually join the Anti-Imperialists after signing a treaty which would create and autonomous Santhal state (modern Xenodemonia, not independent because of fears that it might join Athara Magarat) and recognition of an autonomous Gaionaxian state, and of course restoring San Montagnan territories, with other formalities and reparations. Ktismandrasi would then declare war on the Neo-Imperialists, and have limited involvement in the invasion of Athara Magarat.

[Keomora]

Currently going over all posts but will post once done. However due to my absence it will make more sense for AM to be the leader of the Neo-Imperialist Factions.

[Weinam]

very interested in this. Looking for legitimate ways to introduce Weinam into the conflict.

[Ioudaia]

Some thoughts on the Ioudaian occupation of Chuli and how we got there.

Quotes taken from: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1159862

Doman-Magarati War (1938 – 1940)

Depending on who's attacking whom and how it went, this may bring us into the war pretty early. Of course, it would help if Domanania and I figured out something about our joint history.

What's been written on this part of the conflict?

The Chuli mountains naturally prevented other hangates and foreign powers from successfully invading this region which had very little to offer and almost no strategic value at all, unlike Mun Hangate which was under the influence of one powerful hangate after another.

Well, that's what people thought, and it may have been perfectly reasonable for them to think that: prospecting and mining technology advanced along with everything else during the 20th century, so it's possible that before prospecting with airplanes and diesel/electric mining machines, there either wasn't anything known to mine, or if there was, it wasn't worth the trouble.

But by the end of the Imperial War, it was wrong: there was some sort of valuable minerals there, and Ioudaian companies came to exploit them. But since we had no experience as an imperial or occupying power, there was a lot of exploiting of the workers too, as mining companies slipped their loose leashes, and the occupation forces didn't notice (and may have deliberately turned a blind eye to some of it).

But, Chuli did end up with generally good government, since that's a religious duty for us, and extensive mining will doubtless leave behind some working infrastructure (railroads, smelters, small hydroelectric dams). And of course, Ioudaia didn't do badly from the occupation either: cheap labor and cheap minerals are always good for an industrial/industrializing nation.

Whether there's anything still to mine today is something to decide. As is how the minerals were discovered in the first place. If it was something we knew going into the occupation, it changes the situation from "we're stuck with this worthless land" or "oh, ok, we have engineer pioneers and mountain forces, so we'll invade this part of the country, while you guys with the more experienced armored forces take the flat parts" to "let's grab the good stuff before anybody notices".

This proved instrumental in the post-Imperial War period as Chuli was the least foreign-influenced Magarati region. After the overthrowing of the then Chuli Hang by a broad alliance of communist and socialist parties, the People's Republic of Chuli was established.

How the communists and socialists got along with the Ioudaian occupation forces is an interesting question. I can see anything from us tolerating them as a way for the occupation forces to bring the mining outfits to heel without necessarily having to smack them personally – it's not like we have any specific ideological objection to communism/socialism; charity being a religious duty does have that effect – to a low-level guerrilla campaign. That depends on what flavor of communism you want, and how badly the workers were being exploited.

But either way, the communists/socialists end up with a relatively well-developed province, experience of good government (and possibly being an active part of running the government, depending), and maybe experience fighting guerrilla wars.

Ethnic Chuli men tend to have an unnaturally high death rate related specifically to heart attacks, strokes and various other factors related to the deadly environment of the mountains. As such, polyandry for the rich yak-herding tradeswomen and lesbian relationships among the poorer eagle huntresses were relatively quite common in Chuli culture since ancient times; though this is always not the case for everyone.

Military occupation does tend to bring influxes of young men into a region, and all sorts of Ioudaia adventureres, misfits, and random ne'er-do-wells made their way to the new, relatively lawless frontier. So, there ought to be some sort of evidence of the occupation, even if it's just kids who look funny, unusual names in some families, and some men who live to ripe old ages despite the ethnic norms.

Comments? Since I've just caught up with thread, I may have missed important details that contradict what I wrote.

[Seneica]

Tagging for future development.

Seneica was a Free Power during this conflict. Able to mobilize a decent sized force alongside special Code Talker units to fellow allies if interested.

[Austrovik-Germania]

"The Austrenyan Social Federation was established after the Grand Estate was dissolved in January. The Austreyan Social Federation, whilst not officially a fascist regime, enacted several policies which mirrored happenings in Nazi Germany and Italy a decade after. The ethnic minorites such as the Fengchu were demonised by a new education system and ethnic violence was actively encouraged. The Federation entered the Imperial War in 1942, fighting for 'Austrenyan cultural land'. Whilst not officially on the Neo-Imperialist side, Austrenya aided their cause and permitted military access. With the loss of the Imperial War in 1949, General Chiang Shi of the Xīnfāngfa was ousted, and the public voted to revive the monarchy in a referendum in November, with a semi-constitutional role rather than an absolute one."

Howdy folks, thought I would put in my own plans for how Austrenya could be involved in the Imperial War. I've quoted a paragraph from my overview dispatch here, however it would be cool if perhaps I wasn't initially involved in the conflict at first, but perhaps the N.Imps persuaded the ASF to join on their side unofficially for a reward of land? Oh and several people (perhaps those of the Free Ps) would own port cities across the nation. Just food for thought!

[Ainslie]

Gday - so I suppose it’s time I get Ainslie and Keverai involved with the history-making. Let’s start with Ainslie.

Unified Electorates of Ainslie (All canon effective from when I publish the relevant information in a dispatch)

Stance: ‘active neutrality’

Ainslie would remain neutral throughout the war, establishing measures in order to ensure that the country’s citizens (or any government agencies) threaten the nation’s safety by risking an undesired entrance into the war. To this effect, Ainslie would:

1. Ban all military ships connected to countries involved with the war from Ahnslen waters
2. Approve any hospital or medical craft to enter Ahnslen waters and dock at Mandara (in the case of the Neo-Imps) or Arborai (in the case of the Free Powers) to receive additional medical care and supplies, for a fee.
3. Empower and support Ahnslen pharamceutical companies to step up production and supply both sides of the war with high demand medical goods. This would continue into the post-war era and would help companies such as Nordox, Armex and Endar get the international recognition and standing that they have in the current day.

The Independent Territory of Keverai (everything attached to this country would be non-canon until we get the permissions, approval and history written down)

Stance: slightly leaning Free Powers, moving towards them and sticking with them throughout Neo-Imp invasion.

Keverai would only have become independent perhaps two or three years earlier. Despite only providing small amounts of support, primarily owing to Aizcona’s hegemonic influence, the Neo-Imps would get super angry and lift their rhetoric. This would scare Keverai into a deeper and more overt relationship with the Free Powers. This could in turn provoke an attack from the Neo-Imperialists who see Keverai as an opportunity to both surprise the Free Powers and open up a new front to further scatter Estral resources. These attacks would ultimately at the very least leave Kevara heavily damaged - however there is a lot of leniency and room to write when it comes to Keveraite battles. There’s virtually no strings attached to this one.


What we could collaborate on
These are the items that immediately pop out to me as potential points where we could have a lot of fun writing some history:

1. Battles in Kevara, Keverai’s capital city, amongst other locations in Keverai.
2. The moratorium on the establishment of new colonies and a vague promise to begin decolonisation efforts. This’d be something Ainslie would be heavily involved with and some time around the time of the moratorium being signed, Keverai would begin a transition period towards their independence. Ultimately, this’ll be a massive diplomatic and political mess up for Ainslie if the aforementioned battles occur.
3. Following on from b) I was hoping that Keverai could be the host for this new moratorium conference.
   {*}Ainslie is more than likely going to be deeply involved in any recovery effort that occurs in Keverai, both in goodwill and with the intent of repairing the relationship with Keverai and offering some kind of compensation for the Federal Government’s hard neutrality position.

So, what are your thoughts? Shall we get started on hammering out some of this stuff?

[Athara Magarat]

I started to think it was kinda unrealistic how the Empire of Magarat and its citizens (after 10 years of propaganda) always blamed the Nyssics and Domans in Magarat for everything but did nothing. So I am gonna have the Magarati imperial government round up Nyssics and Domans in concentration camps.

Nyssic-majority nations like Noronica (and her colonies and protectorates), Miklania, Almorea, etc could be reporting that Magarati Nyssics are getting rounded up between 1929 and 1941 but their own governments could downplay the issue for various reasons (maybe the Magarati high command has allowed Magarati Nyssics to emigrate out...maybe the Noronnican government does not want to risk any sort of conflict with Empire of Magarat...). But the bigger picture here is that no one other than Domanania cares about Magarati Domans being ethnically cleansed. The fact that the Magarati Nyssics being put in concentration camps is downplayed while no one bats an eye to Magarati Domans being ethnically cleansed encourages the Magarati high command to do even more fucked-up shit and straight up declare war upon Domanania in 1938 to "purge the Domananians and settled Khas-Kiratis there" (in reality, it was a war for resources). When the Empire of Magarat goes to war with Noronica and Almorea during the Imperial War, the Magarati Nyssics too are going to be sent to gas chambers, firing squads and whatnot.

I am planning to use the genocides carried out by the Magarati high command against its own Nyssic and Doman citizens as the reason why modern AM takes special status for these groups today very seriously (both are the largest ethnic groups in Magarat today, have their languages as lingua franca of the federation and have their own hangates despite not being Khas-Kirati or Argean Ipachi). The reports of the concentration camps for Nyssics and ethnic cleansing of Domans even before the Imperial War will sway nations like Ainslie to join the Free Powers.

I also plan to have the Magarati Emperor actually be a Keomoran Thakali named Hem Gauchan. Kinda like a certain leader of a certain regime during WW2.

There could also be the idea of a Khas-Kirati and Ipachi superiority (and the reason behind ethnic cleansing of Nyssics and Domans) as the driving force for Neo-Imperialist Magaratis but decided to scratch that idea because I am allied with Ktismandrasi, Dragao do Mar, New Totzka and Dormill and Stiura. And also, the so-called "Protector of Ipachis" Razzgriz is already on the Free Powers side. Nonetheless, I do plan to sway NPC Keverai to the Neo-Imp side.

[Ainslie]

Some quick clarifications:
1. Ainslie is likely not going to join either side still, but public support would definitely lie with the free powers
2. Keveraite cities would more likely sway towards free powers whereas the regions would lean more to the Neo-Imps

[Corindia]

special Code Talker units

So like, wasn't the whole point of the actual code talkers that it was a language that would be essentially unknown and very different structurally to well known languages? In your case, where the !Native Americans are the dominant power in the country, you'd expect anyone trying to break those codes to speak your language as it wouldn't be obscure. Unless you have your own colonized, understudied minority that speaks a wholly unknown language to use.

[Brulafi]

Gday - so I suppose it’s time I get Ainslie and Keverai involved with the history-making. Let’s start with Ainslie.

Unified Electorates of Ainslie (All canon effective from when I publish the relevant information in a dispatch)

Stance: ‘active neutrality’

Ainslie would remain neutral throughout the war, establishing measures in order to ensure that the country’s citizens (or any government agencies) threaten the nation’s safety by risking an undesired entrance into the war. To this effect, Ainslie would:

1. Ban all military ships connected to countries involved with the war from Ahnslen waters
2. Approve any hospital or medical craft to enter Ahnslen waters and dock at Mandara (in the case of the Neo-Imps) or Arborai (in the case of the Free Powers) to receive additional medical care and supplies, for a fee.
3. Empower and support Ahnslen pharamceutical companies to step up production and supply both sides of the war with high demand medical goods. This would continue into the post-war era and would help companies such as Nordox, Armex and Endar get the international recognition and standing that they have in the current day.

The Independent Territory of Keverai (everything attached to this country would be non-canon until we get the permissions, approval and history written down)

Stance: slightly leaning Free Powers, moving towards them and sticking with them throughout Neo-Imp invasion.

Keverai would only have become independent perhaps two or three years earlier. Despite only providing small amounts of support, primarily owing to Aizcona’s hegemonic influence, the Neo-Imps would get super angry and lift their rhetoric. This would scare Keverai into a deeper and more overt relationship with the Free Powers. This could in turn provoke an attack from the Neo-Imperialists who see Keverai as an opportunity to both surprise the Free Powers and open up a new front to further scatter Estral resources. These attacks would ultimately at the very least leave Kevara heavily damaged - however there is a lot of leniency and room to write when it comes to Keveraite battles. There’s virtually no strings attached to this one.


What we could collaborate on
These are the items that immediately pop out to me as potential points where we could have a lot of fun writing some history:

1. Battles in Kevara, Keverai’s capital city, amongst other locations in Keverai.
2. The moratorium on the establishment of new colonies and a vague promise to begin decolonisation efforts. This’d be something Ainslie would be heavily involved with and some time around the time of the moratorium being signed, Keverai would begin a transition period towards their independence. Ultimately, this’ll be a massive diplomatic and political mess up for Ainslie if the aforementioned battles occur.
3. Following on from b) I was hoping that Keverai could be the host for this new moratorium conference.
   {*}Ainslie is more than likely going to be deeply involved in any recovery effort that occurs in Keverai, both in goodwill and with the intent of repairing the relationship with Keverai and offering some kind of compensation for the Federal Government’s hard neutrality position.

So, what are your thoughts? Shall we get started on hammering out some of this stuff?

Looks cool. Perhaps some shenanigans with the Brulafi Navy can occur in the then-neutral Keverai after Brulafi is overrun by the Magarati Empire, since the fleet wants a place to land without surrendering and surely won't go to Aizcona.

[Seneica]

special Code Talker units

So like, wasn't the whole point of the actual code talkers that it was a language that would be essentially unknown and very different structurally to well known languages? In your case, where the !Native Americans are the dominant power in the country, you'd expect anyone trying to break those codes to speak your language as it wouldn't be obscure. Unless you have your own colonized, understudied minority that speaks a wholly unknown language to use.

That is entirely possible. Also, Seneica is made up of several native languages, it could also be possible to develop a code made up from the different languages of the Native people. It's something I will continue to look into and develop realistically.

[Aizcona]

Looks cool. Perhaps some shenanigans with the Brulafi Navy can occur in the then-neutral Keverai after Brulafi is overrun by the Magarati Empire, since the fleet wants a place to land without surrendering and surely won't go to Aizcona.

Oh come now, Aizcona would have taken care of your navy's ships. Don't know where their original crews went though

[Brulafi]

Looks cool. Perhaps some shenanigans with the Brulafi Navy can occur in the then-neutral Keverai after Brulafi is overrun by the Magarati Empire, since the fleet wants a place to land without surrendering and surely won't go to Aizcona.

Oh come now, Aizcona would have taken care of your navy's ships. Don't know where their original crews went though

See, that's, like, the exact issue

[Athara Magarat]

That is entirely possible. Also, Seneica is made up of several native languages, it could also be possible to develop a code made up from the different languages of the Native people. It's something I will continue to look into and develop realistically.

Speaking of this...perhaps I should make use of my 125 languages to have our own version of code talkers?

[Shanzie]

Could my state of Al Shera, then a independent nation, join the Imperial Powers during the war? It would mostly be an internal war, but it would definitely help with my history. They could open up the front against Sanghora and Bamora (also independent at the time) keeping Aprosia safe while he waged war as well. After the war, I would hope the League could mediate a peace between the three that saw them unify into my nation today.

[Havalland]

Yeah I would like an updated map and to officially be on the free powers

[Athara Magarat]

If you guys ever need to mention any Magarati city, here is the dispatch.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ath ... id=1412408