Taiwan: Chinese Sending Military Planes "Almost Daily"

[Iorada]

We're going into a second Cold War, with an ascendant China and a declining West, so naturally there is going to be an enormous anti-China media drive. I have certainly noticed an upsurge this year, and if you haven't I don't know what planet you're living on. First it started with the "China Virus", then it was the assertion that China must be lying about its numbers because of how Covid has devastated capitalist countries such as the US, UK, Russia and Brazil, so therefore China must be lying about its numbers. Then it was the Hong Kong National Security Act, which despite the fact is a common piece of legislation seen across the world, not least in the USA, is "completely unacceptable" for China, (even though Hong Kong is China, its people are Chinese, it was an Imperial outpost which it never should have been.) Then its the complete crap about Uyghur enslavement, contradictory to the fact that millions of people in Xinjiang have been lifted out of poverty, which is being pushed by Adrian Zenz (fundamentalist Christian, supported by Endowment For Democracy, high up in the Victims of Communism Memorial Fund). Since when did the west start caring about Muslims?! Islamophobia pervades all western societies, there have been countless Muslim countries bombed to oblivion, millions of muslims killed and the plight of people in Palestine and Yemen completely ignored, with it being deemed anti-Semitic to criticise Israel in any way and the West supplying tons of weapons to Saudi Arabia. The West only cares about Muslims that have oil to trade with them. What does the west suggest China do with Xinjiang? Just leave the people in abject poverty, uneducated and leave it a breeding ground for radicalisation and terrorism? Lest we forget the role of the Turkistan Islamic Party in Syria. And now its crap like this. Despite my belief that Taiwan is China, I really don't think China would invade it, it makes no sense in the current political climate.

China is not this horrible, human rights deficient society where everyone is oppressed and hates the government like so many of you believe. I have many friends from China, who live here in the UK and frequently point out to me areas where China is different and better. Superior infrastructure, better policies on development and employment, stronger healthcare etc. Ask yourself what human rights do the homeless, the starving, the unemployed, ethnic minorities etc have in the west. The only human rights the west cares about are electoral, where you can vote for which colour of party is going to hand your money over to the rich.

China is on the up, the Yuan is swiftly developing as the dollar declines. China will be the world's largest economy in 2030. Its sustainable growth is yet another example of how socialism creates superpowers in a few short decades from backwards, third world countries, just like the USSR proved in the 20th century.

[Tolopel]

oh shit on my tit

[Broni]

Parallel: Argentine junta is on its last legs - invades Falklands
Parallel: Putin's popularity is heading for the sink - invades Crimea
Parallel: Bush is heading for big defeat in the midterms - invades first Afghanistan then Iraq

Conclusion: Xi's power base is getting shaky at the moment.

[Holy Roman Empires2]

Wtf? Has the entire ccp gone mad? Stark raving mad? What is this nonsnese? I dont mean to mock China, but ahem our navy would destroy them

[Novus America]

We're going into a second Cold War, with an ascendant China and a declining West, so naturally there is going to be an enormous anti-China media drive. I have certainly noticed an upsurge this year, and if you haven't I don't know what planet you're living on. First it started with the "China Virus", then it was the assertion that China must be lying about its numbers because of how Covid has devastated capitalist countries such as the US, UK, Russia and Brazil, so therefore China must be lying about its numbers. Then it was the Hong Kong National Security Act, which despite the fact is a common piece of legislation seen across the world, not least in the USA, is "completely unacceptable" for China, (even though Hong Kong is China, its people are Chinese, it was an Imperial outpost which it never should have been.) Then its the complete crap about Uyghur enslavement, contradictory to the fact that millions of people in Xinjiang have been lifted out of poverty, which is being pushed by Adrian Zenz (fundamentalist Christian, supported by Endowment For Democracy, high up in the Victims of Communism Memorial Fund). Since when did the west start caring about Muslims?! Islamophobia pervades all western societies, there have been countless Muslim countries bombed to oblivion, millions of muslims killed and the plight of people in Palestine and Yemen completely ignored, with it being deemed anti-Semitic to criticise Israel in any way and the West supplying tons of weapons to Saudi Arabia. The West only cares about Muslims that have oil to trade with them. What does the west suggest China do with Xinjiang? Just leave the people in abject poverty, uneducated and leave it a breeding ground for radicalisation and terrorism? Lest we forget the role of the Turkistan Islamic Party in Syria. And now its crap like this. Despite my belief that Taiwan is China, I really don't think China would invade it, it makes no sense in the current political climate.

China is not this horrible, human rights deficient society where everyone is oppressed and hates the government like so many of you believe. I have many friends from China, who live here in the UK and frequently point out to me areas where China is different and better. Superior infrastructure, better policies on development and employment, stronger healthcare etc. Ask yourself what human rights do the homeless, the starving, the unemployed, ethnic minorities etc have in the west. The only human rights the west cares about are electoral, where you can vote for which colour of party is going to hand your money over to the rich.

China is on the up, the Yuan is swiftly developing as the dollar declines. China will be the world's largest economy in 2030. Its sustainable growth is yet another example of how socialism creates superpowers in a few short decades from backwards, third world countries, just like the USSR proved in the 20th century.

There is too much Gish Gallop garbage here to cover it all, without going off topic (the Hong Kong law was already covered in the Hong Kong thread) but...
Umm the PRC is decidedly capitalist. Sure it is more a mercantilist capitalism over neoliberal capitalism but still, it is capitalist.

And yes the West should learn by dropping neoliberalism and using the protectionism against the PRC like they did to us.

The PRC is not all bad in all ways, but it absolutely is bad in many ways.

The fact that in some cases its infrastructure might be better does not give it the right to attack its neighbors.

And actually the PRC is not doing as great as you claim, given their declining growth rates, debt driven spending with diminishing returns, demographic crisis, declining international relations etc.

Their victory is not assured. Nor is their defeat. The future is what we make it It looked like the Soviets had the upper hand and were ascendant in the 70s only for them to lose a decade later.

But yes it is clear the PRC and the West cannot reconcile our mutually exclusive views and thus a Cold War type conflict is inevitable. Why is it okay for the PRC to oppose the West but bad for the West to respond in kind?

Here the PRC is threatening to attack a Western state, and so it is only natural for us to in the West to find that threatening.

[Punished UMN]

Parallel: Argentine junta is on its last legs - invades Falklands
Parallel: Putin's popularity is heading for the sink - invades Crimea
Parallel: Bush is heading for big defeat in the midterms - invades first Afghanistan then Iraq

Conclusion: Xi's power base is getting shaky at the moment.

Neither of these are really true, or rather, they are connecting largely unrelated events and ignoring more important events and precursors.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Time for Washington to formally recognize Taiwan as a separate nation from China and ship nuclear warheads to the island in order to deter a Chinese invasion attempt. May China never know peace as long as the CCP remains in power. I do not want to see a war with China, but if WWIII happens, I'll be rooting unconditionally for the USA, Japan, India, Australia, Taiwan, and ALL of China's enemies both within and outside the PRC's borders until the PLA either surrenders unconditionally or is completely wiped from the face of the Earth by Allied forces, and the CCP ceases to exist in any way, shape or form. I'm even prepared to grant Russia some leeway despite the latter's unforgivable atrocities against Syrian civilians, LGBT people in Chechnya, its imperialist annexation of Crimea, and its constant meddling in the political affairs of other countries.

[Stellar Colonies]

Taiwan, being an independent and unfriendly country towards the PRC as it is now, is part of the barrier locking the PRC into Asia. With Taiwan, they would have a stepping stone further away from the mainland, be able to more easily dominate the area around it, and be a bit closer towards projecting out into the Pacific.

And there is also the fact that the Taiwanese population really doesn't seem to want PRC governance for the first time in its history, so that fact should end this annexation goal right off the bat. Although...

However, this is likely some kind of saber-rattling instead of a genuine first step for an annexation happening really soon.

[Iorada]

Time for Washington to formally recognize Taiwan as a separate nation from China and ship nuclear warheads to the island in order to deter a Chinese invasion attempt. May China never know peace as long as the CCP remains in power. I do not want to see a war with China, but if WWIII happens, I'll be rooting unconditionally for the USA, Japan, India, Australia, Taiwan, and ALL of China's enemies both within and outside the PRC's borders until the PLA either surrenders unconditionally or is completely wiped from the face of the Earth by Allied forces, and the CCP ceases to exist in any way, shape or form. I'm even prepared to grant Russia some leeway despite the latter's unforgivable atrocities against Syrian civilians, LGBT people in Chechnya, its imperialist annexation of Crimea, and its constant meddling in the political affairs of other countries.

What an utter tw*t.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

We're going into a second Cold War, with an ascendant China and a declining West, so naturally there is going to be an enormous anti-China media drive. I have certainly noticed an upsurge this year, and if you haven't I don't know what planet you're living on. First it started with the "China Virus", then it was the assertion that China must be lying about its numbers because of how Covid has devastated capitalist countries such as the US, UK, Russia and Brazil, so therefore China must be lying about its numbers. Then it was the Hong Kong National Security Act, which despite the fact is a common piece of legislation seen across the world, not least in the USA, is "completely unacceptable" for China, (even though Hong Kong is China, its people are Chinese, it was an Imperial outpost which it never should have been.) Then its the complete crap about Uyghur enslavement, contradictory to the fact that millions of people in Xinjiang have been lifted out of poverty, which is being pushed by Adrian Zenz (fundamentalist Christian, supported by Endowment For Democracy, high up in the Victims of Communism Memorial Fund). Since when did the west start caring about Muslims?! Islamophobia pervades all western societies, there have been countless Muslim countries bombed to oblivion, millions of muslims killed and the plight of people in Palestine and Yemen completely ignored, with it being deemed anti-Semitic to criticise Israel in any way and the West supplying tons of weapons to Saudi Arabia. The West only cares about Muslims that have oil to trade with them. What does the west suggest China do with Xinjiang? Just leave the people in abject poverty, uneducated and leave it a breeding ground for radicalisation and terrorism? Lest we forget the role of the Turkistan Islamic Party in Syria. And now its crap like this. Despite my belief that Taiwan is China, I really don't think China would invade it, it makes no sense in the current political climate.

China is not this horrible, human rights deficient society where everyone is oppressed and hates the government like so many of you believe. I have many friends from China, who live here in the UK and frequently point out to me areas where China is different and better. Superior infrastructure, better policies on development and employment, stronger healthcare etc. Ask yourself what human rights do the homeless, the starving, the unemployed, ethnic minorities etc have in the west. The only human rights the west cares about are electoral, where you can vote for which colour of party is going to hand your money over to the rich.

China is on the up, the Yuan is swiftly developing as the dollar declines. China will be the world's largest economy in 2030. Its sustainable growth is yet another example of how socialism creates superpowers in a few short decades from backwards, third world countries, just like the USSR proved in the 20th century.

See kids, this is why you don't drink the Kool-Aid. It makes you say goofy shit like "China is Socialist" or "The West is lying about China" or "China isn't imperialist" and other falsehoods.

[Ansarre]

Intimidating our allies, genocide of a marginalized minority, and suppression of the rights of people living under their tyrannical rule. This is why we need to invade the land controlled by the "Chinese Communist Party" and restore the rule of the legitimate Chinese government. If you think this is shocking to advocate for, people said the same about war with the Nazis!

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Time for Washington to formally recognize Taiwan as a separate nation from China and ship nuclear warheads to the island in order to deter a Chinese invasion attempt. May China never know peace as long as the CCP remains in power. I do not want to see a war with China, but if WWIII happens, I'll be rooting unconditionally for the USA, Japan, India, Australia, Taiwan, and ALL of China's enemies both within and outside the PRC's borders until the PLA either surrenders unconditionally or is completely wiped from the face of the Earth by Allied forces, and the CCP ceases to exist in any way, shape or form. I'm even prepared to grant Russia some leeway despite the latter's unforgivable atrocities against Syrian civilians, LGBT people in Chechnya, its imperialist annexation of Crimea, and its constant meddling in the political affairs of other countries.

What an utter tw*t.

Yeah, no. It’s high time people got around to seeing the manipulative side of China, debt trapping countries, using Western companies’ strong desire for cash and sales to make them effectively allies to their cause, dodging statements and questions, claiming that others are interfering in Chinese internal affairs when the countries in question are absolutely justified in doing so, all while China actually interferes with others through economic deals or politically strong-manning them, increasingly aggressive tendencies in claiming territory, et cetera.

I’d love to reply to your first post, but I’ve got other things to do.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Can we just skip over 2020 already?

If you as a Nigerian already feel this, then you have an inkling of how I, sitting in the country south of X, have been feeling.

I feel you. Especially how cosy our leader gets with Xi Jinping.

[Stellar Colonies]

Intimidating our allies, genocide of a marginalized minority, and suppression of the rights of people living under their tyrannical rule. This is why we need to invade the land controlled by the "Chinese Communist Party" and restore the rule of the legitimate Chinese government. If you think this is shocking to advocate for, people said the same about war with the Nazis!

An invasion of the PRC would fail as spectacularly as an invasion of the US.

[Ansarre]

Intimidating our allies, genocide of a marginalized minority, and suppression of the rights of people living under their tyrannical rule. This is why we need to invade the land controlled by the "Chinese Communist Party" and restore the rule of the legitimate Chinese government. If you think this is shocking to advocate for, people said the same about war with the Nazis!

An invasion of the PRC would fail as spectacularly as an invasion of the US.

Many people probably said the same about war with Germany in the 1930s. Fact of the matter is, the illegal PRC regime is the biggest threat that western civilization has ever faced. If we let them continue then they'll overpower us anyway. I'd rather have them assume global dominance in the next few decades via defeating us in a war, than gradually within the next half a dozen decades because of our own cowardice.

[Novus America]

Intimidating our allies, genocide of a marginalized minority, and suppression of the rights of people living under their tyrannical rule. This is why we need to invade the land controlled by the "Chinese Communist Party" and restore the rule of the legitimate Chinese government. If you think this is shocking to advocate for, people said the same about war with the Nazis!

Who is this we you refer to?
Given your dislike of the US and Russia who is with you in this?

Although I am obviously no fan of the PRC, think it the biggest threat we face, and we (and in we I mean the US, UK, EU, Japan, India, Taiwan, Australia and maybe even Russia if we could get them onboard although Russian participation is neither likely nor essential, really the US and India are the essential ones, the others while very helpful are not all strictly needed) must take actions to contain it and protect ourselves from it, an actual invasion is simply not viable.

We were able to invade Nazi Germany only via them having a much smaller population than the PRC, and them having no nuclear weapons.

Politically, economically and logistically we lack the ability to pull off such a feat against the PRC.

But we have other ways to deter them.

Ban their products and companies from our countries (unfortunately this would require a phase out and cannot be done immediately), ban their propaganda operations, build up our military deterrence and ban all members of the CCP from traveling to or doing an business in our countries, etc.

[Novus America]

An invasion of the PRC would fail as spectacularly as an invasion of the US.

Many people probably said the same about war with Germany in the 1930s. Fact of the matter is, the illegal PRC regime is the biggest threat that western civilization has ever faced. If we let them continue then they'll overpower us anyway. I'd rather have them assume global dominance in the next few decades via defeating us in a war, than gradually within the next half a dozen decades because of our own cowardice.

While I agree they are the greatest threat we have ever faced, the situation involving Germany was quite different. Germany was not nearly as large in population nor as well strategically placed.

It only worked because we had the combined might of the British Empire and Commonwealth (while in decline it was still massively powerful) the US, and the Soviets Union, plus widespread opposition amongst occupied places towards the Nazis. Oh and the Nazis had no nukes.

In the case of the PRC who is going to invade, how, and with what?

But thankfully we can contain them short of outright invasion.

[Stellar Colonies]

Intimidating our allies, genocide of a marginalized minority, and suppression of the rights of people living under their tyrannical rule. This is why we need to invade the land controlled by the "Chinese Communist Party" and restore the rule of the legitimate Chinese government. If you think this is shocking to advocate for, people said the same about war with the Nazis!

Who is this we you refer to?
Given your dislike of the US and Russia who is with you in this?

Although I am obviously no fan of the PRC, think it the biggest threat we face, and we (and in we I mean the US, UK, EU, Japan, India, Taiwan, Australia and maybe even Russia if we could get them onboard although Russian participation is neither likely nor essential, really the US and India are the essential ones, the others while very helpful are not all strictly needed) must take actions to contain it and protect ourselves from it, an actually invasion is simply not viable.

We were able to invade Nazi Germany only via them having a much smaller population than the PRC, and them having no nuclear weapons.

Politically, economically and logistically we lack the ability to pull off such a feat against the PRC.

But we have other ways to deter them.

Ban their products and companies from our countries (unfortunately this would require a phase out and cannot be done immediately), ban their propaganda operations, build up our military deterrence and ban all members of the CCP from traveling to or doing an business in our countries, etc.

Yeah.

The way for its rivals to thwart the PRC's growth in regional and global influence is through indirect means, not intentionally sparking a major war which would very quickly get out of hand and result in excess of WWII-levels of destruction on all sides.

[Adamede]

So no we've had not only border clashes with the Indians, a fellow nuclear state, but now we have the PRC antagonizing the de facto independent Taiwan. I guess destroying Hong Kong's democracy wasn't enough for the CCP.

[New Rogernomics]

China's aggression at mininum will lead to a major arms race in the region, and nuclear proliferation of China's neighbors. Within this or next decade we can expect nuclear weapons permanently stationed by the US in Taiwan or even maybe South Korea, as soon conventional weapons won't be able to be an effective deterrent to invasion. The irony in Chinese foreign policy is that they won't get what they want in terms of territory, and instead will find themselves more threatened and more at risk.

[Asle Leopolka]

Stop the presses. Stop the fucking presses.

China is sending military planes near Taiwan with increasing frequency in what appears to be a stepping up of its threat to use force to take control of the island, Taiwan’s foreign minister said Wednesday.

oh shit oh fuck oh shit oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck

That lead doesn't fuck around, does it?

I don't know if anyone who's been watching Xi long enough saw this as an inevitability, but this is to me a shocker, an outlier beyond even my wildest expectations of what this year is going to be like.
<SNIP>

Given how Hong Kong has played out, how hard he's been pushing Belt & Road, how much he's shoved the One China Policy in the region, his power grabs, how insanely authoritarian he's been and how insanely insecure he is (I know everyone prods at Trump for being insecure, but at least the man didn't ban an entire cartoon because people said he resembled the character) I can't say I'm surprised but I figured it was only a matter of time. Hope everyone in Taiwan stays safe

China's aggression at mininum will lead to a major arms race in the region, and nuclear proliferation of China's neighbors. Within this or next decade we can expect nuclear weapons permanently stationed by the US in Taiwan or even maybe South Korea, as soon conventional weapons won't be able to be an effective deterrent to invasion. The irony in Chinese foreign policy is that they won't only not get what they want in terms of territory, and instead will find themselves more threatened and more at risk.

China has been a paper tiger and currency manipulator for years and I fully expect it to crumple within our lifetime.

[The Black Forrest]

Not to worry. Trump will avoid bloodshed and allow China to control the island. It’s part of his plan to return manufacturing back to the mainland.

[Ansarre]

Intimidating our allies, genocide of a marginalized minority, and suppression of the rights of people living under their tyrannical rule. This is why we need to invade the land controlled by the "Chinese Communist Party" and restore the rule of the legitimate Chinese government. If you think this is shocking to advocate for, people said the same about war with the Nazis!

Who is this we you refer to?
Given your dislike of the US and Russia who is with you in this?

I should state I have no dislike of the USA, at least not relative to Russia. When I say "No to America, no to Russia, no to China, YES TO EUROPE", my "No to America" isn't the same as my "no" to Russia and China, it's just a recognition that America isn't as reliable as it could be and that Europe needs to empower itself in the event that we don't have America as an ally.

By we I mean NATO/the Western World.

Although I am obviously no fan of the PRC, think it the biggest threat we face, and we (and in we I mean the US, UK, EU, Japan, India, Taiwan, Australia and maybe even Russia if we could get them onboard although Russian participation is neither likely nor essential, really the US and India are the essential ones, the others while very helpful are not all strictly needed) must take actions to contain it and protect ourselves from it, an actually invasion is simply not viable.
We were able to invade Nazi Germany only via them having a much smaller population than the PRC, and them having no nuclear weapons.
Politically, economically and logistically we lack the ability to pull off such a feat against the PRC.
But we have other ways to deter them.
Ban their products and companies from our countries (unfortunately this would require a phase out and cannot be done immediately), ban their propaganda operations, build up our military deterrence and ban all members of the CCP from traveling to or doing an business in our countries, etc.

This wouldn't stop the CCP, it would just embolden them to find a way to work around it and move on without the west. We need swift action. If invasion is off the table, having their leadership kick the bucket and inciting unrest within the territories it illegally occupied is a priority. Also there is no country called Taiwan, it is the Republic of China. Stop spreading CCP propaganda.

[New Rogernomics]

China has been a paper tiger and currency manipulator for years and I fully expect it to crumple within our lifetime.

In a hypothetical war, the Chinese navy would be gradually wiped out, though their Air Force and Army would stlll be a major threat. Regardless of how China's economy goes, they will continue to be such a threat. Though, if we include India and Vietnam as likely US allies in any future engagement, it is possible China would be on the losing end, as the Chinese military for all it's advancements is poorly trained, struggles to fill and keep positions, and has poor logistics.

[Novus America]

Who is this we you refer to?
Given your dislike of the US and Russia who is with you in this?

I should state I have no dislike of the USA, at least not relative to Russia. When I say "No to America, no to Russia, no to China, YES TO EUROPE", my "No to America" isn't the same as my "no" to Russia and China, it's just a recognition that America isn't as reliable as it could be and that Europe needs to empower itself in the event that we don't have America as an ally.

By we I mean NATO/the Western World.

Although I am obviously no fan of the PRC, think it the biggest threat we face, and we (and in we I mean the US, UK, EU, Japan, India, Taiwan, Australia and maybe even Russia if we could get them onboard although Russian participation is neither likely nor essential, really the US and India are the essential ones, the others while very helpful are not all strictly needed) must take actions to contain it and protect ourselves from it, an actually invasion is simply not viable.
We were able to invade Nazi Germany only via them having a much smaller population than the PRC, and them having no nuclear weapons.
Politically, economically and logistically we lack the ability to pull off such a feat against the PRC.
But we have other ways to deter them.
Ban their products and companies from our countries (unfortunately this would require a phase out and cannot be done immediately), ban their propaganda operations, build up our military deterrence and ban all members of the CCP from traveling to or doing an business in our countries, etc.

This wouldn't stop the CCP, it would just embolden them to find a way to work around it and move on without the west. We need swift action. If invasion is off the table, having their leadership kick the bucket and inciting unrest within the territories it illegally occupied is a priority. Also there is no country called Taiwan, it is the Republic of China. Stop spreading CCP propaganda.

Okay, thank you for the clarification on the first part.
I agree the western world, including The ROC/Taiwan (although calling it Taiwan freaks out the PRC too, they hate it being called that as a state or country) needs to unite against this threat.

But even so we simply lack the population, economic strength and political will to pull off an outright invasion.
But I disagree that what I suggest will not stop the PRC. Their strength comes solely from their economic power, they were not a credible threat BEFORE we outsourced our manufacturing too then.
Stop outsourcing to them, you stop their economic power over us, and thus the threat they pose.

Without western money to throw around they lose their power. They can no longer afford to bribe other countries or build up their military.

Plus their regime is evil, but not suicidal. They will only attack if they think they can win, so a massive military build up on our parts could deter them. If we build a collective allied military force much larger and stronger then theirs, they will not attack.

Like all bullies they prey on the weak, but cower away from true strength.

That being said I am not against some black ops type skullduggery stuff (hopefully deniable) to cause them internal instability along the way.