The events in Portland & the plan to take it nationwide

[Vassenor]

Hey, if it's good enough to "prove" Tucker Carlson was actually doxxed...

That is not the topic of this thread and I think a reporter being doxxed is much different from a president being impeached.

Wasn't the GOP response to impeachment "yes, Trump did that, but we think it's OK for him to do that"?

[Slaughter None]

Aren't democratic run cities the worst hit in comparision to their population

That you are trying to shift the blame for the response to a pandemic away from the national government, which is obviously best positioned to deal with a global crisis, to municipal governments, which are very limited in what they can do in terms of responding to a global crisis, only further proves that you view politics as a game. You're trying to make excuses for your favourite team by attacking their rival team.

and also haven't people died in previous terms and blaming the president for the deaths caused by the ineptitude of regional leaders isn't fair eg. When the Google servers are down do you blame Sundar Pichai or the technical team?

So when the President fails in leading the national response to a global crisis, "he is just a politician you don't have to take it so personal". But when some mayor somewhere can't stop the global crisis from hitting their city especially hard, now we can care? Fucking come on.

Let's see didn't Trump administration give subsidies for American companies to provide ppe when their was a national defecit of ppe and the handling of the coronavirus certainly wasn't helped by Fauci initially saying that wearing a mask was not necessary and the WHO saying that it couldn't spread through physical contact so if anybody is to be blamed here it's the coronavirus handling team lead by Dr. Fauci and the regional administrators.

[No walls]

I don’t agree with how the government is responding but I don’t think they should just let people get away with tearing down monuments and vandalizing historical buildings, you can try and erase history all you want but it’s there for a reason so we can look back and see how we’ve changed, id consider it historical revisionism to destroy things like that

[Vassenor]

I don’t agree with how the government is responding but I don’t think they should just let people get away with tearing down monuments and vandalizing historical buildings, you can try and erase history all you want but it’s there for a reason so we can look back and see how we’ve changed, id consider it historical revisionism to destroy things like that

So what historical buildings have been vandalised in Portland?

Also "erasing history" again. Everybody drink.

[Necroghastia]

I don’t agree with how the government is responding but I don’t think they should just let people get away with tearing down monuments and vandalizing historical buildings, you can try and erase history all you want but it’s there for a reason so we can look back and see how we’ve changed, id consider it historical revisionism to destroy things like that

So, what criminals have the secret police arrested?

[Slaughter None]

That is not the topic of this thread and I think a reporter being doxxed is much different from a president being impeached.

Wasn't the GOP response to impeachment "yes, Trump did that, but we think it's OK for him to do that"?

GOP never said that he did voter fraud or commit espionage.

[Greed and Death]

Let's hope the election happens and happens fairly, because this does look a bit like Nazi Germany to me. Kidnapping peaceful protesters is a sign that democracy is being dismantled.

Unlikely. Democracy was doomed in 2016.

[Ifreann]

That you are trying to shift the blame for the response to a pandemic away from the national government, which is obviously best positioned to deal with a global crisis, to municipal governments, which are very limited in what they can do in terms of responding to a global crisis, only further proves that you view politics as a game. You're trying to make excuses for your favourite team by attacking their rival team.


So when the President fails in leading the national response to a global crisis, "he is just a politician you don't have to take it so personal". But when some mayor somewhere can't stop the global crisis from hitting their city especially hard, now we can care? Fucking come on.

Let's see didn't Trump administration give subsidies for American companies to provide ppe when their was a national defecit of ppe and the handling of the coronavirus certainly wasn't helped by Fauci saying that wearing a mask was not necessary and the WHO said it couldn't spread through physical contact so if anybody is to be blamed here it's the coronavirus handling team lead by Dr. Fauci

Again, you are transparently just making excuses for your team here. The point is not the specifics of Trump's response to the pandemic, the point is that Trump is in charge of responding to the pandemic, because he's the fucking president, and you were just arguing that we shouldn't care about him too much, he's just a politician. Even if his response to this crisis was uncharacteristically amazing, YOU SHOULD FUCKING CARE ABOUT WHO IS RUNNING YOUR COUNTRY. Especially your fucking country, with the most expensive military in the world and a fucking nuclear arsenal and thousands and thousands of armed federal agents. Trump is not just some figurehead like the Queen or my president, his decisions are of global consequence. It is beyond absurd to argue that we shouldn't "take it so personal".

[Fartsniffage]

Wasn't the GOP response to impeachment "yes, Trump did that, but we think it's OK for him to do that"?

GOP never said that he did voter fraud or commit espionage.

Slight threadjack, but Trump actually did commit voter fraud personally when he registered to vote in Florida. He gave his home address as the White House, an out of state residence, which is a crime in Florida.

It was corrected about a month later when the error was pointed out, but it was a crime from the moment he signed the document.

There is something you know now.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Well, regardless of what Orwell would think, it remains a fact that everything negative said about the protesters goes double for the cops.

Yeah, no... You need to stop believing everything you watch on the "news".

Throwing brainwash or sheeple in every other post you make on this thread isn’t helping any of your points.

As for the bad protestors have done is double for the police point, does a person need to be beaten up a bunch of times by police if they are retreating? Is pepperspraying their face or shooting at their head absolutely needed? If the protestors are calm, clearly the police wouldn’t be agitated too, right? But no, this is recorded happening across multiple American cities. If protestors can stay in one place or march without causing any trouble, the cops can surely tone down their treatment of these protestors.

[Nuroblav]

I don’t agree with how the government is responding but I don’t think they should just let people get away with tearing down monuments and vandalizing historical buildings, you can try and erase history all you want but it’s there for a reason so we can look back and see how we’ve changed, id consider it historical revisionism to destroy things like that

A good thing we have museums and the Internet, so history won't be erased by removing a slab of stone

I mean, sure some of the statues probably didn't need to be dismantled, particularly where the people weren't primarily known for their questionable actions. That being said, a better argument from those against the statue removal than "b-b-but hIsToRy!!!" would suffice. In my opinion, moving statues to museums is probably a better solution than simply destroying them. You make a point about that sort of stuff, but I wouldn't worry if a piece of stone is shifted.

[Vassenor]

Wasn't the GOP response to impeachment "yes, Trump did that, but we think it's OK for him to do that"?

GOP never said that he did voter fraud or commit espionage.

I don't remember either of those being impeachment charges. Abuse of power and Obstruction of Congress are their own things.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

Muh despite making 13% of the population blacks commit 50% of crime” classic 10 IQ authright argument, just as retarded as “that wasn’t true communism”

It's not "50% of crime". It's about 50% of murders. It's "only" 26% of all crime and 38% of all violent crime.

Anyway, why is that a "10 IQ" argument? Seems pretty relevant to me. It's not rocket science that committing crime increases the chance of coming into contact with the police. Add violence, gang-relation, weapons, resistance etc. into the mix and the risk of getting shot by police increases drastically.

Are you saying those numbers aren't true?

You claim whites make up half of all police murders but according to this actual source(not made up bigoted claims), last year 370 out of the 1000+ police shooting victims are white. So basically, despite making 70% of the population, whites make up only a little over a third of police shooting victims. Meanwhile last year, 230 blacks were killed by police, meaning that they make up a quarter of the US police victims. That is disproportionate since blacks make up 12.5% of the US population.

Oh dear.... so much stupid in so few words. Where do I even begin.

1. Facts don't become "made up" just because they contradict your delusions and the propaganda you blindly consume, and they don't become "bigoted" just because they don't fit your 'woke' ideology.

2. White people only make up about 61% of the population, not 70%.

3. According to your own source, white people made up 52.3%, 46.1%, 50.4% and 50.6% of the people of known race killed by police in 2020, 2019, 2018 and 2017 respectively.
That's a lot closer to half than "a little over a third".

4. This is a red herring. It's irrelevant whether white people make up 50%, 40% of 30% of the people killed by police. Population size also doesn't matter. What matters is that black people commit more violent crime and come into more interactions with police as a result, yet are killed less than white people are - and that's despite the fact that black people are more likely to resist arrest; more likely to attempt to flee; more likely to attack the police and are more likely to kill police.

Based on the numbers alone (26% of all crime, 38% of all violent crime, 52% of all murders, 41% of cop killers) we'd expect black people to make up a lot more of the people killed by police. If anything, they're benefiting from preferential treatment.

5. You call all 1000+ people killed by police "victims". They're not. Close to 99% are shot in self-defense. Only about 1-3% are killed on accident and can be considered actual victims.

yet you overlook basic human psychology.

I'm going to ignore most of that paragraph because it was pure nonsense. I do want to address this last part, though, cause you can't have your cake and eat it too.

So far you've argued that black people are more likely to get killed by police, presumably because of "racism", and denied that it might have something to do with the higher crime rates, and even implied that they aren't higher at all. Yet now you seem to be making excuses for these high crime rates. What is it, then? Do black people commit more crime or not?

1. Not much to say here, asides from all left-leaning media or all the media a left leaning person consumes is immediately propaganda point is absolutely bonkers.

2. Last US census says 76%, apparently.

3. There’s nothing that separates accidental from intentional deaths though. I’d like to see which among the Blacks or Whites make a higher proportion of that. Asides from that, there’s also the danger of no-knock enters, given some of these are accidental enters by police in the wrong addresses, and especially if the people inside are unaware that they are police, they could get defensive and result in them getting shot. That would count as self defence, but the distinctions between cases like these and other no-knock raids that successfully targeted the right locations are rather blurred, unless case by case summaries are given for each.

4. Thing is, some Blacks have grown up scared of the police, due to no-knock raids and hearing of confrontational incidents that involve the police and gangs or other people more often than usual. And thus, as an involuntary action, get more defensive and/or aggressive when cops are present. Doesn’t obviously count for actual violators. Some police have been through the same thing, where they hear of similar or the same altercations between police and Blacks/Black gangs during training or stories from older officers. So they too have a knee-jerk reaction, and cause these certain cops to be more aggressive and/or defensive. It’s a thing for both sides really.

5. There are self-defence incidents that can be disputed, depends on the clarity an officer can see what the other person is holding (or lack thereof) or even coverups. I don’t imagine this to take out a huge chunk of the percentage though. Pretty sure the victims part is focusing on the smaller part of the percentage and the police brutality argument is all about lowering that percentage and hostility on the part of the officer at times.

[Fahran]

Your proposed sterner response is ordinary police violence

The presumption that arresting someone for committing a possibly violent felony constitutes police violence is alarming unless you mean this in a purely philosophical sense.

and greater police numbers?

Having more police patrolling the streets is generally a good way of maintaining social order in the short-term. I don't think law-abiding citizens should have to suffer predation by people engaged in unlawful activities.

That's both hilariously underwhelming and practically impossible. Where is Portland going to get more cops?

Conventionally, they'd ask for help from state or federal authorities to bring the situation under control. The issue is that the mayor and municipal government have allowed rioters and street brawlers to operate with impunity for years now. If they had preserved order earlier, this probably wouldn't have been such a massive issue.

Even if they did, how are they going to pick out and arrest the specific individuals in huge crowds who are breaking the law? And how are they going to disperse crowds when the brutality they're employing now doesn't work?

You don't arrest specific people if you can't pick them out. Obviously. If you can pick them out and apprehend them though, there's no reason they shouldn't be arrested. As for dispersing unruly or violent crowds, use tear gas, rubber bullets, and other conventional means. Treat this how you treat any other riot. Don't send out unidentified officers to randomly apprehend people who aren't engaged in criminal acts.

[The Alma Mater]

Well, regardless of what Orwell would think, it remains a fact that everything negative said about the protesters goes double for the cops.

Yeah, no... You need to stop believing everything you watch on the "news".

Do you not think it odd that the few times you posted sources for your claims, the sheeple here already knew them nad had counter arguments ready ?

It is almost like the sheeple did vastly more thorough research than you. Scary, innit. Because what does that make you

[Gormwood]

Yeah, no... You need to stop believing everything you watch on the "news".

Do you not think it odd that the few times you posted sources for your claims, the sheeple here already knew them nad had counter arguments ready ?

It is almost like the sheeple did vastly more thorough research than you. Scary, innit. Because what does that make you

He cares more about the constant attention than being correct. It's Kanye!

[Adamede]

I don't see these recent events as being on the scale of the famous secret police forces of Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, and I certainly don't agree with many of the recent behaviors of the rioters/protesters/whatever you want to call them, the actions that federal government have taken are a step down the wrong path, and need to be corrected now.

The Federal government should never operate its officers and executors in a way that obscures who they are and who they work for. This means everything from uniforms to equipment to vehicles should be clearly stated with the names/numbers of the officers and the department that they are working for. The US was built off the idea of government accountability to the citizenry, and part of what makes a government accountable is transparency of the government's actions.

[Vassenor]

Yeah, no... You need to stop believing everything you watch on the "news".

Do you not think it odd that the few times you posted sources for your claims, the sheeple here already knew them nad had counter arguments ready ?

It is almost like the sheeple did vastly more thorough research than you. Scary, innit. Because what does that make you

And because they're just rehashing the same arguments that other people have already tried god knows how many times before.

[VlaRiSsiA]

Oh dear.... so much stupid in so few words. Where do I even begin.

1. Facts don't become "made up" just because they contradict your delusions and the propaganda you blindly consume, and they don't become "bigoted" just because they don't fit your 'woke' ideology.

2. White people only make up about 61% of the population, not 70%.

3. According to your own source, white people made up 52.3%, 46.1%, 50.4% and 50.6% of the people of known race killed by police in 2020, 2019, 2018 and 2017 respectively.
That's a lot closer to half than "a little over a third".

4. This is a red herring. It's irrelevant whether white people make up 50%, 40% of 30% of the people killed by police. Population size also doesn't matter. What matters is that black people commit more violent crime and come into more interactions with police as a result, yet are killed less than white people are - and that's despite the fact that black people are more likely to resist arrest; more likely to attempt to flee; more likely to attack the police and are more likely to kill police.

Based on the numbers alone (26% of all crime, 38% of all violent crime, 52% of all murders, 41% of cop killers) we'd expect black people to make up a lot more of the people killed by police. If anything, they're benefiting from preferential treatment.

5. You call all 1000+ people killed by police "victims". They're not. Close to 99% are shot in self-defense. Only about 1-3% are killed on accident and can be considered actual victims.

I'm going to ignore most of that paragraph because it was pure nonsense. I do want to address this last part, though, cause you can't have your cake and eat it too.

So far you've argued that black people are more likely to get killed by police, presumably because of "racism", and denied that it might have something to do with the higher crime rates, and even implied that they aren't higher at all. Yet now you seem to be making excuses for these high crime rates. What is it, then? Do black people commit more crime or not?

There is so much wrong with what you just said. I’m not even talking about how absurd it sounds from an ethical perspective, the way you put this sounds like peak authright. Like so authright I could take a screenshot of this and put a blue square in the background and post it on r/politicalcompassmemes.

Anyway, there are a lot of statistical assumptions you are making. When I said whites make up over a third of police killings, I was using the proportion out of the entire number of kills. You are using the proportion out if the number of kills of whom were identified, yet you don’t even acknowledge the blacks killed using that same statistic. In 2017, 903 people with their racial identity known were killed, with 457 being white. Ok you got me. In 2017, half of the police murders of those identified were white, but do you also acknowledge that 25% of those with a known racial identity where black. Ironic huh? There are over 5 times as many whites as blacks in the US, yet whites are only killed at 2 times the higher rate. In 2018, 399 out of the 772 identified police homocides were on whites yet, 209 were against blacks. This again shows that blacks are killed at a 2.5 times higher rate than whites. In 2019, of the 802 identified victims, 370 were white while 230 were black. Almost a third of victims then where black in 2019, a severely disproportionate amount. The same goes in 2020, with blacks still being killed at twice the rate as whites. You’re probably going to say “oH sO YOu wAnt tO kILl MoRE wHiTEs tO mAKe iT pRoPOrTioNaL yoU rACisT aNti-WHiTe COmMiE!” No. I want it so that no one is killed by police. Wanting people to be killed just because their ethnic identity is wrongfully associated with bad connotations really aligns well with that one man on your flag, just saying.

Now let’s go to your next claims, of which are so messed up they can go on r/forwardsfromklandma. You claim that blacks are getting privileged treatment because “they aren’t being killed proportionally!”. To think that anyone deserves to be killed is absolutely disgusting. Also, your stats that you are using to show blacks commit more murder are being severely misinterpreted. You see, your stats are not the exact number of murders, but the amount of people incarcerated for murder. The crime statistics are based off of incarceration rates, not crime rates since if we knew the exact crime rate including those not arrested, the numbers would be far different. White people have gotten away with many things black peoples could only hope to imagine. There is a story that really sums up why our prison system is so horrible. Back in 2016 or before, a militia of hundreds of armed white men seized a federal building demanding ransoms from the government. Wanna know what happened to them? Nothing, not a single shot fired. Not a single cop. Guess it’s only considered terrorism by the mainstream media if they are brown. Meanwhile, during that time, a black kid was gunned down by police for having a toy gun. This is just one of the many stories I can show you. Recently, Ahmaud Arbury was shot by a white man for running. The murderers were only arrested when footage was released online, ten weeks after they killed the innocent man. Meanwhile whenever black people even steal or do drugs, the media and police all hunt them down, and justify their deaths if they get killed by police. Recently, a black man in Atlanta was killed just because he was pulled over. George Floyd was killed by cops for simply using an allegedly fake bill. No justice happened until everyone screamed for it to happen. Millions of black people have been arrested for doing little things, and you will probably justify it. I see republicans trying to justify blacks getting killed right after claiming they are “the party of Lincoln”. If Lincoln where to see the GOP, and their fetish for the confederates, he would declare them traitors(though the democrats also suck). What I’m trying to say is that the incarceration system has had a history of being unjust, and it makes sense since only recently has the civil rights act been passed. Using stats of one of the most messed up incarceration systems on earth as a way to claim one race is worse than the other is just insane. I don’t think a normal prison system would have almost as many people imprisoned as the Soviet gulags. There are only 2 countries with over 1% of the population incarcerated: the US and North Korea. Would you trust North Korea’s prison system to see who is the most violent?

Now let’s go to your next claim, which I gotta say, makes Liberty Hangout look like they hate licking boots. That’s the amount of bootlicking you have right now. You claim that only 1% of people killed by police are intentional, yet you also say that whites are being deliberately targeted by police. So it’s either 10 people or 300 people being intentionally murdered by police. Schrödinger’s cat indeed. I don’t have stats on how many of the murders are deliberate, since it is impossible to map emotions, but I can tell you that the police murders we have seen on camera are only the tip of the Iceberg. These protests have shown how brutal police can really be. There is footage of police beating protesters, shooting them with rubber bullets, using teargas, abducting them, using flash grenades, running protesters over, even firing live ammunition. Many people have been shot dead by riot police, many more being killed with teargas. What the police have been doing actually violates the Geneva convention, but it’s leftists so it’s okay since suppressing political oppositions means you’re a true patriot /s!

If you think hundreds of years of historical context is pure nonsense, then you are truly ignorant. Racism has been engraved in US politics since the 1600s. It would be practically impossible for all of racism to be erased by one simple act signed in the 60s. Many people who were police who brutalized civil rights protests in the 60s are still alive today. Racist teachings have been passed for generations across all civilization, all countries have their own form of racism(thanks Britain and France).

Finally we have your last paragraph, which is so hilarious that if I were to take it out of context, it would be /pol/ gold. But you claim that I ignore the crime rates. I am aware of the supposed high black crime rates, but I am also aware that those statistics are from the annual incarceration rates. The number we know is the amount of blacks incarcerated for the crime, even if they are innocent so it doesn’t reflect the number of crimes actually committed. It’s a well known fact that white people get away far more often with criminal activity than blacks. As well as the whole historical context as to why there is the amount of crime and incarcerations. The high crime rates are in fact not the exact crime rates, but rather incarceration rates, many of whom are not even convicted. If you want to ignore centuries of historical context, then go ahead, since unlike you I’m not going to use ad-hominems.

[New Rogernomics]

[...]In what critics call clearly unconstitutional behavior, camouflage-clad officers—Mother Jones reported on Friday that they are Border Patrol agents—have arrested protesters, allegedly without identifying or explaining themselves. Federal officers have used tear gas and shot projectiles from paintball guns at protesters.

These 'critics' are forgetting America is a country with Guantanamo Bay, indefinite detention permitted by law, the Patriot Act, and a large number of laws that permit everything Trump is doing, with full support of the constitution. Not to mention, the Supreme Court ruled the internment of the Japanese in camps as constitutional. The lawsuit will go nowhere, regardless of any ethical or moral concerns.

[Genivaria]

Only evidence the democrats have provided is that they have said that there is.

OK now you're not making sense. Or are we pretending that all the people who went to jail over the Collusion thing don't exist?

Trumper rhetorical tool:
1. That didn't happen and you're making shit up.
2. Okay it did happen but you're blowing it out of proportion.
3. Well okay maybe it's bad but da Demoncrats do it to!
4. HOW MUCH IS GEORGE SOROS PAYING YOU TO SAY THIS!?

[West Leas Oros 2]

So has the dam finally broke? Has America dropped all it's 'democratic' pretense and decided to go full autocratic? Well, maybe some of you should have seen it sooner, and now, I say, is the time for open revolution.

[Skyhooked]

So has the dam finally broke? Has America dropped all it's 'democratic' pretense and decided to go full autocratic? Well, maybe some of you should have seen it sooner, and now, I say, is the time for open revolution.

Ya' mean, do all that again? The minutemen, the revolutionary spirit... the "Remember lads, one if by land, two if by sea!"

[Adamede]

So has the dam finally broke? Has America dropped all it's 'democratic' pretense and decided to go full autocratic? Well, maybe some of you should have seen it sooner, and now, I say, is the time for open revolution.

With the shape our society is in a revolution would solve nothing.

[Adamede]

So has the dam finally broke? Has America dropped all it's 'democratic' pretense and decided to go full autocratic? Well, maybe some of you should have seen it sooner, and now, I say, is the time for open revolution.

Ya' mean, do all that again? The minutemen, the revolutionary spirit... the "Remember lads, one if by land, two if by sea!"

I was thinking more guerrilla warfare in a three, four front war.