The League & Concord | Still Here.

[God-King Rorschach]

I don't want to drag too far this conversation, because it's already becoming pointless and I am currently enjoying a wonderful glass of wine - but - the NS over the past 2 years has been developing a dangerous cancel culture by self-proclaimed members/users of the so-called "respectable" GP.

To everyone reading this message and finding themselves superiors towards all others. You can't cancel cultures and most certainly you can't dictate, mandate or tell regions how to run their regional affairs and most certainly your way is not, by any means, the best way either. Your plans or strategies might work for your community but they do not work for other communities. And for crying out loud, you can't dictate or tell regions that they need to change their PR strategies just because they fundamentally disagree with whatever you have to say.

To the LCN and everyone that find themselves in a way into similar waters, "You'll make mistakes, and that's good, 'cause it tells you that at least decisions are being made". Keep on going strong and continue making small steps of improvement. I’m convinced that about half of what separates successful leaders from the non-successful ones is pure perseverance. Keep fighting despite how difficult it may be at times and you are going to make it.

[Quebecshire]

Since Thatcher and Tim are so concerned about "ableism" in the LCN, and the word "retard" being considered a slur for ableism, I wonder if he will say anything about the NSGP Discord server's lack of moderation enforcement for the word.

Considering I found 89 uses of the term, every single one of which is in a more recent time period than Thatcher's screenshot of the Nagarno insult, 64 of which were non-quoting just casual uses of the word, including by the server owner which Tim uses a quote from in his signature.

Now, I'm not going to pass judgement on anybody. It seems every use I counted was in a non-abusive casual way. I don't see a problem with it. The NSGP server, while housing some arrogant members, seems safe and moderated.

But uh, I call total fucking hypocrisy on part of Thatcher and Tim and anyone else whining about "ableism" in the LCN while being on that server and not saying a word about that. Is NSGP an unsafe and discriminatory environment?

Neither servers are doing nothing wrong is my stance, but at least be consistent. Also, I know a number of the people this applies to lurk here, so don't pretend you aren't aware

[Washingtonian Republic]

Since Thatcher and Tim are so concerned about "ableism" in the LCN, and the word "retard" being considered a slur for ableism, I wonder if he will say anything about the NSGP Discord server's lack of moderation enforcement for the word.

Considering I found 89 uses of the term, every single one of which is in a more recent time period than Thatcher's screenshot of the Nagarno insult, 64 of which were non-quoting just casual uses of the word, including by the server owner which Tim uses a quote from in his signature.

Now, I'm not going to pass judgement on anybody. It seems every use I counted was in a non-abusive casual way. I don't see a problem with it. The NSGP server, while housing some arrogant members, seems safe and moderated.

But uh, I call total fucking hypocrisy on part of Thatcher and Tim and anyone else whining about "ableism" in the LCN while being on that server and not saying a word about that. Is NSGP an unsafe and discriminatory environment?

Neither servers are doing nothing wrong is my stance, but at least be consistent. Also, I know a number of the people this applies to lurk here, so don't pretend you aren't aware

To give a visual in commemoration of this occasion

[North Prarie]

I don't want to drag too far this conversation, because it's already becoming pointless and I am currently enjoying a wonderful glass of wine - but - the NS over the past 2 years has been developing a dangerous cancel culture by self-proclaimed members/users of the so-called "respectable" GP.

To everyone reading this message and finding themselves superiors towards all others. You can't cancel cultures and most certainly you can't dictate, mandate or tell regions how to run their regional affairs and most certainly your way is not, by any means, the best way either. Your plans or strategies might work for your community but they do not work for other communities. And for crying out loud, you can't dictate or tell regions that they need to change their PR strategies just because they fundamentally disagree with whatever you have to say.

To the LCN and everyone that find themselves in a way into similar waters, "You'll make mistakes, and that's good, 'cause it tells you that at least decisions are being made". Keep on going strong and continue making small steps of improvement. I’m convinced that about half of what separates successful leaders from the non-successful ones is pure perseverance. Keep fighting despite how difficult it may be at times and you are going to make it.

Lmao ok harry

[The New Fandom Republic]

Rorschach:*Detailed and pretty strong statement about the current topic*
North Prarie:lMaO oK hArRy
Really encapsulates this whole situation honestly.

[Quebecshire]

Rorschach:*Detailed and pretty strong statement about the current topic*
North Prarie:lMaO oK hArRy
Really encapsulates this whole situation honestly.

Not nearly as much as when Harry posted something on RTL about the original topic and someone replied asking what he was talking about because the thread is that far detached from it now.

[The New Fandom Republic]

Rorschach:*Detailed and pretty strong statement about the current topic*
North Prarie:lMaO oK hArRy
Really encapsulates this whole situation honestly.

Not nearly as much as when Harry posted something on RTL about the original topic and someone replied asking what he was talking about because the thread is that far detached from it now.

Now that really hits the nail on the head!

[Boda]

I don't want to drag too far this conversation, because it's already becoming pointless and I am currently enjoying a wonderful glass of wine - but - the NS over the past 2 years has been developing a dangerous cancel culture by self-proclaimed members/users of the so-called "respectable" GP.

To everyone reading this message and finding themselves superiors towards all others. You can't cancel cultures and most certainly you can't dictate, mandate or tell regions how to run their regional affairs and most certainly your way is not, by any means, the best way either. Your plans or strategies might work for your community but they do not work for other communities. And for crying out loud, you can't dictate or tell regions that they need to change their PR strategies just because they fundamentally disagree with whatever you have to say.

To the LCN and everyone that find themselves in a way into similar waters, "You'll make mistakes, and that's good, 'cause it tells you that at least decisions are being made". Keep on going strong and continue making small steps of improvement. I’m convinced that about half of what separates successful leaders from the non-successful ones is pure perseverance. Keep fighting despite how difficult it may be at times and you are going to make it.

#cancelculture is blessed tho.

[The Legion of Mankind]

I don't want to drag too far this conversation, because it's already becoming pointless and I am currently enjoying a wonderful glass of wine - but - the NS over the past 2 years has been developing a dangerous cancel culture by self-proclaimed members/users of the so-called "respectable" GP.

To everyone reading this message and finding themselves superiors towards all others. You can't cancel cultures and most certainly you can't dictate, mandate or tell regions how to run their regional affairs and most certainly your way is not, by any means, the best way either. Your plans or strategies might work for your community but they do not work for other communities. And for crying out loud, you can't dictate or tell regions that they need to change their PR strategies just because they fundamentally disagree with whatever you have to say.

To the LCN and everyone that find themselves in a way into similar waters, "You'll make mistakes, and that's good, 'cause it tells you that at least decisions are being made". Keep on going strong and continue making small steps of improvement. I’m convinced that about half of what separates successful leaders from the non-successful ones is pure perseverance. Keep fighting despite how difficult it may be at times and you are going to make it.

#cancelculture is blessed tho.

no

[Faroic]

i like how this thread went so far from the actual topic ahahahahahah

[Lyoa]

i like how this thread went so far from the actual topic ahahahahahah

There’s really no reason for you to be posting in here if you’re not going to contribute to the discussion, you realize that, right?

[Amaan Land]

i like how this thread went so far from the actual topic ahahahahahah

You left this region, I don’t see why you always have to comment on our affairs.

[Quebecshire]

i like how this thread went so far from the actual topic ahahahahahah

I like how you think you're contributing anything to the forum thread, Mr. I left after being passed up for a promotion for which I was ill-qualified.

[North Prarie]

Rorschach:*Detailed and pretty strong statement about the current topic*
North Prarie:lMaO oK hArRy
Really encapsulates this whole situation honestly.

I mean, that's pretty much NSGP's reaction to anything Enadia does.
There's a saying that really encapsulates people's views about "cancel culture" - if you throw a rock in a pig pen, the one that squeals is the one that got hit.

[God-King Rorschach]

Since we're doing quotes, there's another one which I'd love to share - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

[Quebecshire]

Rorschach:*Detailed and pretty strong statement about the current topic*
North Prarie:lMaO oK hArRy
Really encapsulates this whole situation honestly.

I mean, that's pretty much NSGP's reaction to anything Enadia does.
There's a saying that really encapsulates people's views about "cancel culture" - if you throw a rock in a pig pen, the one that squeals is the one that got hit.

Yes, throwing a rock at a pig without provocation might make the pig that gets unfairly beaned with a rock squeal. How insightful.

I used to own a pig so I can attest, pigs don't like being attacked with rocks. Not that I ever did that.

But in all seriousness, come up with a comparison that actually works and doesn't work against your argument if you're gonna defend cancel culture.

[Paleocacher]

Voting Stances on WA General Assembly vote: Wartime Journalism Protection Act and WA Security Council vote: Condemn Mikeswill
The Republic of The League of Conservative Nations

The League of Conservative Nations WA Delegate, San Carlos Islands released the LCN WA Delegate's official position on the WA General Assembly Proposal at vote: "Wartime Journalism Protection Act" this morning. San Carlos Islands has encouraged all LCN WA members to vote FOR the resolution in the following statement:

Within the real world in 2019, 49 Journalists were killed while reporting from warzones. While this number was the lowest it has been in two decades, it is still too high.

Today's resolution decreases instances of warzone journalists being killed or detained by allowing them total, unabridged access to warzones across NS. This in turn means that the world can receive much needed reports on the state of human rights in war zones, war crimes, and other general information integral when peeking into conflicts.

Furthermore, today's resolution does not abridge national sovereignty as journalists are only guaranteed access to what combatants in a certain conflict will see. If journalists are caught participating in combat, this resolution does not apply to them; so nations who catch journalists fighting against them may still detain or execute combative journalists.

For the above reasons, I urge a vote For this proposal.

Secondly the League of Conservative Nations WA delegate San Carlos Islands released the following statement on the LCN's stance on the Security Council proposal at vote: "Condemn Mikeswill" last night. In this statement all LCN members are encouraged to vote AGAINST the proposal.

Today's resolution appears to be targeted against Mikeswill for malicious reasons. It is very clear to me that Mikeswill who is one of the oldest and most renown nations on NS has done absolutely nothing overtly wrong and that the only reason they are up for condemnation is that nations like Morover feel like they have been somehow wronged by them. Mikeswill didn't raid any peaceful nations, they didn't say anything offensive, and they didn't lead a coup; they simply are better at NS card market than others.

This resolution is absurd and childish, and must be voted down.

For the above reasons, I urge a vote Against this proposal.

If you have any questions please feel free to respond to this post. Thank you.

THE OFFICE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS

General Ambassador to the NSGP Forum of the LCN Paleocacher

[Quebecshire]

Conference on Moderation & Citizenship Policy
The Republic of The League of Conservative Nations

The Consulate has made the decision to call a special meeting (as opposed to our weekly ones) which will take place in a secure government voice channel. We will be discussing our plans for the rewriting of the current Discord Server rules and LPF protocols to accomplish certain goals we have in place for the server. The current server rules are placed in a spoiler below for convenience.

1. Server Police have the authority to enforce these rules at their discretion when they feel it is best for the discord server, the users, and the region at large. They are accountable to the Consulate and by extension the people when they exercise this mandated authority.
2. Server Police actions are final, if you have any further issue with it you can contact a Consul. However, arguing with them over it in the moment is a waste of time.
3. Rules function as intended.
4. NSFW content is not allowed. If you are unsure if your content is NSFW, you are simply advised not to post it. If you want to, contact a member of the Server Police regarding it.
5. No spamming outside of the #meme-spam channel and no misusing other channels.
6. Don’t harass fellow members of the server.
7. If what you are posting could poorly reflect on our community and region, or cause unintended consequences, reconsider if its helpful or necessary (basically, be mindful of your actions).
8. (For Diplomats) Don’t make your region look bad nor violate any applicable LCN precedents or laws.
9. Abuse of, or misconduct within State/Government related channels may result in restriction of access or similar consequences.
10. All applicable LCN laws must be followed by all members of this server.
11. Do not post sensitive information to the LCN in inappropriate channels.
12. Do not post private information of ANYONE without their consent on this server.
13. These rules can be edited as deemed necessary.

Our goals for moderation policy discussion are as follows,

• Clarify rules in regards to spam, controversial language, use of bot commands in chat channels, and the rules appeals process.
  
• Edit LPF protocols to be more applicable to security risk (they moreso address domestic behavior).
  
• Codify and clarify the uses of special protocols.
  
• Streamline LPF consequences (tighter enforcement). I.E. prevent rulebreaking as a result of the idea that a warning has little impact on your day to day of the server.
  
• Ensure professionalism by the LPF moderation team in their channels, particularly #police-reports.
  
• Discuss any other general rewording of server rules.*
  
• Possibly clarify what the moderation team is and is not liable to handle.

*We do not intend to pursue major policy changes, rather streamline and clarify the intent and effectiveness of the current rules.

As for citizenship policy, we will be acting in cooperation with the LCNIA Director per CRL#1.

[Roavin]

I find it encouraging that you're doing this. Here are some sincere and heartfelt suggestions from me to improve the process;

First, Look at how some other big established regions handle this. These are either battle-hardened documents, or they've been inspired by other battle-hardened documents, and in either case don't represent just a contrivance of rules but are based on some experience of what works and what doesn't. I can mention TSP's Community Standards (which falls in the latter category), but there are other regions such as TNP, Europeia, and even the NS website itself that should be looked at.

Second, get some advice from unrelated admin/moderation teams. They won't (usually) say no, and quite the contrary will be happy to help out. TSP would certainly be willing to (and I'm a part of it there). TNP would probably also be willing to take a look, and I know from experience that they will give sincere and honest advice if dealt with sincerely and in good faith, and they won't ridicule you in public about it.

Third, don't just decide to do it all in one voice chat session. This is a complex topic, and ideally you can do this iteratively over the span of a few weeks.

[The New Fandom Republic]

I find it encouraging that you're doing this. Here are some sincere and heartfelt suggestions from me to improve the process;

First, Look at how some other big established regions handle this. These are either battle-hardened documents, or they've been inspired by other battle-hardened documents, and in either case don't represent just a contrivance of rules but are based on some experience of what works and what doesn't. I can mention TSP's Community Standards (which falls in the latter category), but there are other regions such as TNP, Europeia, and even the NS website itself that should be looked at.

Second, get some advice from unrelated admin/moderation teams. They won't (usually) say no, and quite the contrary will be happy to help out. TSP would certainly be willing to (and I'm a part of it there). TNP would probably also be willing to take a look, and I know from experience that they will give sincere and honest advice if dealt with sincerely and in good faith, and they won't ridicule you in public about it.

Third, don't just decide to do it all in one voice chat session. This is a complex topic, and ideally you can do this iteratively over the span of a few weeks.

Thank you for being civil however, we mainly talked about a slight restructuring of the rules among other small fixes so we're not going for something major since something like that requires a vocal majority of the citizenry on board with a major reform in governance.

Also we're kind of a unique region when it comes to governance and moderation so don't hold your breath on us following common moderation policy as we here in the LCN seek to get constructive and applicable input from those who give it and despite what our detractors might claim about us, we are more than open to change but I really wish to drive home that we will do such change on our terms and that no amount of lecturing(of which I'm not accusing you of) from anyone, not even Max Barry himself will make us change drastically.

[Quebecshire]

I find it encouraging that you're doing this. Here are some sincere and heartfelt suggestions from me to improve the process;

First, Look at how some other big established regions handle this.

I mean this in the most respectful and genuine way possible, but right now we're looking inward to what our members and moderating officers want.

These are either battle-hardened documents, or they've been inspired by other battle-hardened documents, and in either case don't represent just a contrivance of rules but are based on some experience of what works and what doesn't. I can mention TSP's Community Standards (which falls in the latter category), but there are other regions such as TNP, Europeia, and even the NS website itself that should be looked at.

I'm not going to refuse to take suggestions or read source material from those engaging in good faith, but respectfully, it's our members who hold the binding say on the matter.

Second, get some advice from unrelated admin/moderation teams. They won't (usually) say no, and quite the contrary will be happy to help out. TSP would certainly be willing to (and I'm a part of it there). TNP would probably also be willing to take a look, and I know from experience that they will give sincere and honest advice if dealt with sincerely and in good faith, and they won't ridicule you in public about it.

I'm not opposed to meeting with people, but same as above with the concrete/binding says belonging to our region.

Third, don't just decide to do it all in one voice chat session. This is a complex topic, and ideally you can do this iteratively over the span of a few weeks.

Well, sure, but we've always been pretty efficient. Voice channels are just easier to use, and the evening is when the whole Consulate can be on. Regardless, we never said this was it, it was just an ideal time to do that.

[Roavin]

I'm confused why you're being so defensive - I'm trying to sincerely and in good faith offer suggestions so that you all can find a good way to move forward. Obviously it's your region's decision (and I didn't say otherwise).

I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but are (IC) governance and (OOC) moderation the same thing in LCN? If so, there are many, many reasons this isn't done, as these are two completely separate levels of the NationStates experience. My probably strongest piece of advice would be to separate the two - the founder and discord/forum administrators/moderators should do moderation, and the government should do governance, and these two shouldn't be related whatsoever. I or many others would be happy to elaborate on the reasons for this, though I would think they are relatively self-evident.

There is a certain standard that's expected (mainstream NSGP has a much higher standard than most of the internet, which is a good thing). You should try being at least at that standard, and some outreach can help you find it, because otherwise you will find it very difficult to have interactions with other regions. The reason you've had these recent embassy closures is precisely because of these OOC moderation-related standards, rather than any actual political gameplay situation.

[Quebecshire]

I'm confused why you're being so defensive - I'm trying to sincerely and in good faith offer suggestions so that you all can find a good way to move forward. Obviously it's your region's decision (and I didn't say otherwise).

I know. Our Council seems to be open to discussing with outsiders, so if you're interested, let us know.[/quote]

I'm not sure if I understood correctly, but are (IC) governance and (OOC) moderation the same thing in LCN? If so, there are many, many reasons this isn't done, as these are two completely separate levels of the NationStates experience. My probably strongest piece of advice would be to separate the two - the founder and discord/forum administrators/moderators should do moderation, and the government should do governance, and these two shouldn't be related whatsoever. I or many others would be happy to elaborate on the reasons for this, though I would think they are relatively self-evident.

You can read this factbook.

There is a certain standard that's expected (mainstream NSGP has a much higher standard than most of the internet, which is a good thing). You should try being at least at that standard, and some outreach can help you find it, because otherwise you will find it very difficult to have interactions with other regions. The reason you've had these recent embassy closures is precisely because of these OOC moderation-related standards, rather than any actual political gameplay situation.

We aren't going to reject that standard just to spite people, but we aren't going to change our structure just to meet it. Our structure works. It allows us to reform and to better develop it within its parameters.

[Quebecshire]

Updated Draft on Discord Server Rules
The Republic of The League of Conservative Nations

1. Server Police have the authority to enforce these rules at their discretion when they feel it is best for the discord server, the users, and the region at large. They are accountable to the Consulate and by extension the people when they exercise this mandated authority.
2. Server Police actions are final, if you have any further issue with it you can contact a Consul. However, arguing with them over it in the moment is a waste of time.
3. Rules function as intended.
4. NSFW content is not allowed. If you are unsure if your content is NSFW, you are simply advised not to post it. If you want to, contact a member of the Server Police regarding it.
5. No spamming outside of the #meme-spam channel and no misusing other channels.
6. Don’t harass fellow members of the server.
7. If what you are posting could poorly reflect on our community and region, or cause unintended consequences, reconsider if its helpful or necessary (basically, be mindful of your actions).
8. (For Diplomats) Don’t make your region look bad nor violate any applicable LCN precedents or laws.
9. Abuse of, or misconduct within State/Government related channels may result in restriction of access or similar consequences.
10. All applicable LCN laws must be followed by all members of this server.
11. Do not post sensitive information to the LCN in inappropriate channels.
12. Do not post private information of ANYONE without their consent on this server.
13. These rules can be edited as deemed necessary.

Below is a draft of the Consulate's rewriting of the Discord Server rules. These rules have not been formalized and are simply being considered at this time. Read the remainder of the post below the box for more information.

The Server Rules, mandated and enforced by the Office of the Consulate and the @League's Police Force, will be posted here for ease of access.

Forward Note:

This is a server largely composed of minors for a simulation game. These rules are expected to be followed to maintain what has been and continues to be a safe community and environment.

In the context of Discord Server Rules Moderator/Moderation refers to the LPF and its members, and Administrator/Administration refers to the Consulate.

1. Server Police have the authority to enforce these rules at their discretion when they feel it is best for the discord server, the users, and the region at large. They are accountable to the Consulate and by extension the people when they exercise this mandated authority.

1.1 Rules function as intended.
1.2 Rules may apply differently between text and voice channels. This is up to Consular/LPF discretion.

2. Server Police actions are definite, if you have any further issue with it you can contact a Consul. However, arguing with them over it in the moment is a waste of time.

2.1 The #police-reports channel is not for debating moderators or administrators regarding punishments or rule interpretations. The most applicable channel for that is #capitol.

3. These rules apply to all members of the Discord Server.

3.1 The speed at which punishments are applied to you may depend on your status in regards to the region, specifically between Citizen, Stayer, Diplomat, and Visitor.

4. NSFW content is not allowed. If you are unsure if your content is NSFW, you are simply advised not to post it. If you want to, contact a member of the Server Police regarding it, however, you accept a risk of punishment for ambiguous content.

5. Use channels appropriately.

5.1 No spamming outside of the #meme-spam channel.
5.2 Do not use bot commands outside of #bot-commands unless the bot command is only feasible to be in that channel. This is up to Consular/LPF discretion.
5.3 Professionalism/respectful behavior is expected within government channels. This is up to Consular/LPF discretion. See Rule 9 as well.

6. Don’t harass fellow members of the server.

6.1 Those who feel as if they have been harassed or mistreated and do not believe it has been sufficiently addressed should consult #police-reports and tag the @Consul of the Republic role, or, if they feel that would incur more harassment, privately DM the Consuls.

7. If what you are posting could poorly reflect on our community and region (or any region or group you represent), or cause unintended consequences, reconsider if it’s helpful or necessary (basically, be mindful of your actions). This is up to Consular/LPF discretion.

7.1 By making potentially offensive comments, you accept the liability that the recipients of said comments may perceive them to be hateful or discriminatory and thus entitle you to consequences.
7.2 Comments perceived to be hateful or discriminatory by LPF officers should be handled as rule violations and left for any further handling by the Consulate.
7.3 This rule does not exclusively apply to hateful or discriminatory content.

8. Private organizations within the LCN may define rules for their channels and categories in addition to those already provided by the server. These rules are inferior to server rules and may not contradict them, nor the rights of members of the server and the region.

9. Abuse of, or misconduct within State/Government related channels may result in restriction of access or similar consequences.

10. All applicable LCN laws must be followed by all members of this server.

11. Do not post sensitive information to the LCN in inappropriate channels.

12. Do not post any private/personal information of any individual without their consent on this server.

13. These rules can be edited as deemed necessary.

This is being posted here so we can easily sort through replies and feedback. While any good faith feedback will not be met with hostility, only those who are constituents of the regional community have a binding entitlement to involvement in the process.

The one exception to this is the leadership of our protectorate, the Monarchist and Democratic Alliance, as they use a slightly modified (for their own government) version of the LCN rules.

Edited Nov 12 to fix the spoiler.

[Roavin]

I have several comments about this, but not the time right now to go over everything in detail. One thing that stands out, though:

7. If what you are posting could poorly reflect on our community and region (or any region or group you represent), or cause unintended consequences, reconsider if it’s helpful or necessary (basically, be mindful of your actions). This is up to Consular/LPF discretion.

7.1 By making potentially offensive comments, you accept the liability that the recipients of said comments may perceive them to be hateful or discriminatory and thus entitle you to consequences.
7.2 Comments perceived to be hateful or discriminatory by LPF officers should be handled as rule violations and left for any further handling by the Consulate.
7.3 This rule does not exclusively apply to hateful or discriminatory content.

Emphasis mine — Are you sure that this is really the take away from this, so much so that you even put it first? Because as written, that tells your members "don't say faggot/nigger/retard because the NSGP elite will yell about it again", rather than "don't say faggot/nigger/retard because it's wrong in almost all cases". I certainly hope that this wasn't your intent.