Called To The BAR: KRY-LGL World Cup 86 Bid

[Krytenia]

Called To The BAR: KRY-LGL World Cup 86 Bid

Welcome to the Krytenia-Legalese bid for World Cup 86.

Krytenia clearly has the hosting bug, as this is the second World Cup bid he's involved in this cycle. A five-time World Cup host with a long list of hosting jobs, this is the second time he's teamed up with a Northern Calanian nation.

Legalese might as well mean "I tried to get out, but they keep pulling me back in." Back again in 85 after some time away, the user behind Legalese has hosted three World Cups, three Cups of Harmony, two AOCAFs, and six Baptisms of Fire.

SIGNUPS
We'd ideally like signups to be open for no more than three weeks. Obviously this isn't entirely in our hands, but we hope that this will be taken into account before signups are opened.

QUALIFYING FORMAT
Qualifying will be at most 21 days long, with 1-2 days off. Group size would be no larger than 10; double scorination days and two-legged playoffs will be utilised if required, with double scorination taking place either immediately before or immediately after a non-scorination day. Uneven groups may be used, but only if we have an awkward number and in sets of 7/8 or 9/10 teams to preserve the number of matchdays.

TIEBREAKERS
Tiebreakers for sides level on points will be goal difference followed by H2H results, H2H goal difference, and RP bonus accumulated. Lots will be drawn if still tied. Goals scored will not be used to prevent bias towards positive style mod teams.

RP BONUS
The Kry-Legal bid for World Cup 86 recognizes that all things need balance. RP is encouraged, and we strive to reward quality RPs with bonuses that help improve your nation’s odds by adding to your rank. That said, the pressure to RP frequently is there for a number of reasons -- both to figure out where you stand in terms of a Cup of Harmony bid (if your qualifying run isn’t going so well) as well as to keep up with everyone else and give yourself a puncher’s chance against the big kids, so to speak. To help with the pressure, we’re planning to implement two measures for qualifying:

Public RP bonuses. Bonuses for each MD will be posted publicly, on a google sheet set up by the hosts, so that you know where you stand on each day.

The BAR. RP bonuses will be allocated using the BAR system.
What does BAR mean? Best, Average, Recent. Together, these three pieces plus the roster will be worth a possible total of 16 points. Each MD of RP will be scored on a 0-2 scale, as will the rosters, and applied as follows:

• Best: The best MD of RP for your team will count for the entirety of qualifying. This will be worth up to 2 points, added to your pre-qualifying rank.
• Average: The average of your RP days (that is, days in which you submit something), throwing out your best and worst score. This is doubled, and will be worth up to 4 points to your pre-qualifying rank. Kicks in with your third RP, since the best and worst are not counted.
• Recent: The sum of the bonus from the last four MDs (for MD1-3, this would be just the days completed so far); this will add up to eight points to your rank.

What does this mean for you? A preference to quality over quantity, but with a recognition of effort.

SCORINATOR
We shall be using Xkoranate with SQIS formula.

ROSTERLESS PENALTY
Post-RP rankpoints are cut for any team that does not post a roster in the WC Roster thread after a grace period. This will be 10% for Matchdays 2 and 3, 25% for 4 and 5, and 50% for each matchday thereafter, based on MD1 being at least one week after the RP thread is opened. The only exception will be BoF teams that posted a roster in the BoF thread, but forget to add it to the WC thread as well, as these teams do at least have a roster available for the cycle.

ANY QUESTIONS?
Please ask.

[PotatoFarmers]

What happens if a new player from the BoF only submits a roster (in the BoF thread, for that matter), and does not RP after that all the way through to the WCQ? Will such a penalty be awarded as well?

[Savojarna]

I really like a lot of things about this bid, and I'll mention them because I think we too often focus on the negative and then don't know what the community actually likes:
- The amount of transparency for RP bonus is, in my opinion, a great thing; while I understand that hosts are sceptical of my suggestion of making public RP bonus a standard, the fact that you guys do it is very welcome by me. This also includes the BAR system, which I think is a) a very nice way of ensuring people know they don't have to write (a lot) daily, and b) something that sets a good example in making grading more transparent.
- PLAYOFFS \o/
- The roster penalty is a good way of ensuring more active participation, hopefully.

[Audioslavia]

I prefer this setup to the KRY/DEL one. The BAR system is very cool.

[Chromatika]

My major concern with this bid is Legalese potentially auto-qualifying as a nation ranked outside the Top 150*.

The post-WC rankings aren't official, but our WIPs are rarely incorrect.

[Legalese]

What happens if a new player from the BoF only submits a roster (in the BoF thread, for that matter), and does not RP after that all the way through to the WCQ? Will such a penalty be awarded as well?

It would not. RP bonus, after all, is a bonus -- if you contribute to the thread, we give you some bonus to help improve your rank against your next opponent. The Roster, while it's certainly treated as an RP bonus, is also something you're doing for not just yourself, but the community. A Roster sets out ground rules for RPing with your team, and gives your opponents something to work with. It's one of the reasons that RPing is not a criteria for WCC eligibility, but posting a Roster is. I'd also point out that even in the case that a rosterless penalty is applied to a BoF team, it's a pretty small one -- half of 2 is still 1 (at the most extreme end of it)

My major concern with this bid is Legalese potentially auto-qualifying as a nation ranked outside the Top 150*.

It's happened before -- in fact, I (as Novapsolu -- was not active as Legalese at that time) was one of the bidders. My co-host, Adihan, was also ranked pretty low, but like me, was from another experienced user -- Aels. I'm not saying it's not a legitimate concern, but only that you consider the bid for what it brings to the World Cup -- a quality experience from two very experienced hosts.

[Cassadaigua]

ROSTERLESS PENALTY
Post-RP rankpoints are cut for any team that does not post a roster in the WC Roster thread after a grace period. This will be 10% for Matchdays 2 and 3, 25% for 4 and 5, and 50% for each matchday thereafter, based on MD1 being at least one week after the RP thread is opened. The only exception will be BoF teams that posted a roster in the BoF thread, but forget to add it to the WC thread as well, as these teams do at least have a roster available for the cycle.

ANY QUESTIONS?
Please ask.

If a nation doesn't post a roster until MD 6 for example, is their initial KPB restored, or does the penalty remain?

[Legalese]

If a nation doesn't post a roster until MD 6 for example, is their initial KPB restored, or does the penalty remain?

Rosterless Penalties go away as soon as you have a roster -- so in your example, if someone posts a roster before the MD6 cutoff, they'll be scored without any reduction to their post-RP rank from that point forward.

[Krytenia]

ROSTERLESS PENALTY
Post-RP rankpoints are cut for any team that does not post a roster in the WC Roster thread after a grace period. This will be 10% for Matchdays 2 and 3, 25% for 4 and 5, and 50% for each matchday thereafter, based on MD1 being at least one week after the RP thread is opened. The only exception will be BoF teams that posted a roster in the BoF thread, but forget to add it to the WC thread as well, as these teams do at least have a roster available for the cycle.

ANY QUESTIONS?
Please ask.

If a nation doesn't post a roster until MD 6 for example, is their initial KPB restored, or does the penalty remain?

The penalty is erased once a roster is posted.

EDIT: Damn that ninja lawyer.

[Cassadaigua]

The penalty is erased once a roster is posted.

EDIT: Damn that ninja lawyer.

Here's a scenario for you then. Top team in group the doesn't post roster.

Top team plays bottom pot teams between MD 1 and 4, no big deal.

For MD5, the KPB is now shrunk by 25%. MD5 and 6, they play the pot 2 and 4 teams (each of whom have rostered), and lose. Therefore pots 2 and 4 benefited from this penalty. Pot 1 then posts their roster after MD 6. Pot 3 (who also has rostered) doesn't play them until MD7, and now they have to play Pot 1 with their full KPB while two key rivals did not have to for the first leg. Pot 3 then loses out on qualifying for the second place transfer by one point. Has this been fair to pot 3?

[Krytenia]

Here's a scenario for you then. Top team in group the doesn't post roster.

Top team plays bottom pot teams between MD 1 and 4, no big deal.

For MD5, the KPB is now shrunk by 25%. MD5 and 6, they play the pot 2 and 4 teams (each of whom have rostered), and lose. Therefore pots 2 and 4 benefited from this penalty. Pot 1 then posts their roster after MD 6. Pot 3 (who also has rostered) doesn't play them until MD7, and now they have to play Pot 1 with their full KPB while two key rivals did not have to for the first leg. Pot 3 then loses out on qualifying for the second place transfer by one point. Has this been fair to pot 3?

No system is perfect, and there will always be outliers. We sincerely hope that this will work as an incentive to users to actually post a roster in the first place; that's why it's there.

[Kelssek]

Couldn't this system lead to a situation where RPing actually causes your bonus to go down?

This is back of the envelope stuff where I make assumptions about your formula, but let's say that after posting two 10/10 RPs, on days 3 and 4 I'm busy (or it's Monday and Tuesday) and I just throw out a quick couple of sentences that are worth 1/10. The problem here is that average on day 3 is 7, and on day 4 it becomes 5.5 because I RPed on day 4.

On day 3,
Best = 2
Average = 7/4 = 1.75
Recent = 11/8 = 1.375
total bonus = 5.075

Day 4:
Best = 2
Average = 5.5/4 = 1.375
Recent = 12/8 = 1.5
total bonus = 4.875

If I posted nothing on day four, I would have a higher RP bonus, as the average component would be 21/3 instead of 22/4. Even with the increase to "recent", I am still better off not posting anything on day 4.

[Legalese]

Kels, you're actually making one of my points of the BAR, though one quick note: RPs are being scored out of 2, so let's say you post 4 days in a row and have a 2,2,0.2,0.2. On MD 3, you'd be at a 10.2 (2 Best, 4 (2 avg * 2, since you drop the low and high) Average, and 4.2 for Recent) plus your Roster (0-2 -- we'll assume you already posted and it doesn't change between MDs). On MD 4, you'd end up at 8.2 (2 Best, 2.2 (1.1 avg * 2) Average, and 4.4 Recent). So yes, you actually are incentivized to not post poor effort RPs that you don't think are very good for the sake of posting every day. That said, as qualifying rolls on, keep in mind that while the best can only improve, the recent shifts forward to the last four MDs, regardless of how many of them you RPed, so posting well over time is rewarded.

[Eura]

If there are playoffs, will it still be the case that the top team in each group will qualify automatically?

[Legalese]

If there are playoffs, will it still be the case that the top team in each group will qualify automatically?

Yes.

[Kelssek]

So yes, you actually are incentivized to not post poor effort RPs that you don't think are very good for the sake of posting every day.

While that idea has merit, in implementation you could also be discouraged from posting something that's actually okay but you fear the hosts might not think is any good, because you're anxious that you'll be penalized for it? Keep in mind, the same survey also showed that close to half of people are anxious that they're not as good RPers as others.

[Legalese]

So yes, you actually are incentivized to not post poor effort RPs that you don't think are very good for the sake of posting every day.

While that idea has merit, in implementation you could also be discouraged from posting something that's actually okay but you fear the hosts might not think is any good, because you're anxious that you'll be penalized for it? Keep in mind, the same survey also showed that close to half of people are anxious that they're not as good RPers as others.

This is also why we're posting RP Bonuses publicly, so that you're getting feedback, at least in terms of how your RPs translate to bonuses, which helps reduce the guessing game.

That said, I can tell you what I'm thinking about when I'm reading/grading RPs, since it's been awhile and I've never posted public RP bonuses before (which other than Farf and Kry, is I believe true for nearly every host). My own philosophy is that I'm looking for RPs that are informative (add something to the tournament beyond the scoreline) first, then entertaining and/or relevant (by relevant, I mean not forgetting that ultimately, the results are your prompt, but they don't have to be your focus). The closer to hitting on all cylinders, the closer to a 2 they get; if you get informative well, you'll probably do good-to-decent in terms of how I score.

[Kelssek]

I think the solution is really quite simple, just add an exception that one's RP bonus cannot decrease due to posting an RP. An RP can be worth nothing (and in fact I have awarded zeros before) but short of stuff that is offensive or rule-breaking, I find it pretty silly that you can lose RP bonus for RPing.

[Farfadillis]

I agree with Kels' sentiment here: I don't think putting in extra effort, however misguided it may be, should be punished. I'd like to say I love BAR besides this small detail, though, so congratulations on the idea.

I do have one unrelated question, however: what's your stance on RP carryover?

[Legalese]

Thanks, Kels and Farf -- taking the feedback about that possibility under advisement.

I do have one unrelated question, however: what's your stance on RP carryover?

On this, I realize we just forgot to add it. Carryover is Best RP + Roster, with post-qual ranks, and finals will be cumulative in nature for RP bonus, using the same 0-2/MD scale.

[South Covello]

While that idea has merit, in implementation you could also be discouraged from posting something that's actually okay but you fear the hosts might not think is any good, because you're anxious that you'll be penalized for it? Keep in mind, the same survey also showed that close to half of people are anxious that they're not as good RPers as others.

This is also why we're posting RP Bonuses publicly, so that you're getting feedback, at least in terms of how your RPs translate to bonuses, which helps reduce the guessing game.

That said, I can tell you what I'm thinking about when I'm reading/grading RPs, since it's been awhile and I've never posted public RP bonuses before (which other than Farf and Kry, is I believe true for nearly every host). My own philosophy is that I'm looking for RPs that are informative (add something to the tournament beyond the scoreline) first, then entertaining and/or relevant (by relevant, I mean not forgetting that ultimately, the results are your prompt, but they don't have to be your focus). The closer to hitting on all cylinders, the closer to a 2 they get; if you get informative well, you'll probably do good-to-decent in terms of how I score.

Does this mean that RPs not about the tournament (such as about elections, wars, etc.) will receive lower RP Bonus?

[Legalese]

Reviewing the issue that Kels pointed out, we're making a small change to the Average component of the proposed RP bonus. While it will remain the average of your RP days (that is, days in which you submit something), throwing out your best and worst score, it will now be doubled starting with your 4th RP (that is, when you have at least two RPs counting for the average, with the best and worst thrown out), and will be worth up to 4 points to your pre-qualifying rank. It still kicks in on your third RP, but since you'll only have one RP counting as the average (your middle-best RP), it'll not be doubled, and will be worth up to 2 points instead (the max for a single RP day).

Does this mean that RPs not about the tournament (such as about elections, wars, etc.) will receive lower RP Bonus?

It's a factor, but hardly the primary one -- good writing that's informative and entertaining comes first before considering relevance, IMO. And frankly, you reminded me last cup that even a seemingly less-relevant RP can provide a fun prompt (even if I manifest it into assistant manager who could really dial it back a touch).

[Ethane]

I understand why you have included it, but I don't necessarily like the idea of public RP bonuses - I think it could potentially increase anxiety over quality of writing. Perhaps a way would be to make rp bonuses visible to just the RPer (ie I would see my RP bonuses but not others). This might be too much work for hosts though, but I odn't particularly adore the idea of the 'valuation' of my writing being visible to the whole community; I'd prefer if people could judge it themselves when they read it. Still, understand why you've included it for more transparency etc though.

[Lovisa]

about the bonus of Rping. Whats about for people who will be away from internet in RL. ie. In RL, I going for my holidays abroad for 2 weeks in August and I will have no access to internet (or like In hols U dont want to have a connection, just enjoying new places), than ur bonus will be zero. Im just curious. Im returning country from very very long absence so I dont expect miracle that I will advance or has a high position but on that situation my team will be for sure in last or second last position coz I will be doing nothing for 2 weeks. What I can do on that situation to make better during my absance?

[Legalese]

Quotes from Ethane and Lovisa snipped below for reference.

Perhaps a way would be to make rp bonuses visible to just the RPer (ie I would see my RP bonuses but not others).

Thanks for bringing this up -- from the anxiety standpoint, I get it -- at best, I suspect I fall somewhere mid-table in terms of quality, but really don't know for sure, and admittedly, a very broad bonus range combined with this would make me more anxious and maybe take away a little from what RPing should be for -- that is, for fun. I think our smaller range will help with that a little -- unfortunately, it's not really practical to set up a way for you to see only your bonuses and not others'. But yeah, to me the transparency of the process is the part that I'm most keen on with this, as a way to help shed more light on RP bonuses in general -- even as a multi-time WC host, I can't really tell you what other hosts have really done/approach it, other than wide guessing; in some ways, it's like we're all playing the same card game with a rough sense of the rules, but are otherwise basically blindfolded. I hope to help lift the blindfold a little with some of what Kry and I have proposed in this bid, and more to the point, just the fact that we've been more open about this than the typical bid (as an opposing bidder even commented on).

about the bonus of Rping. Whats about for people who will be away from internet in RL...What I can do on that situation to make better during my absance?

Hey, welcome back Lovisa! Good to see you also returning. One thing I can say about the bonus is it's geared towards giving more leeway to users, by rewarding both your best and average RP scores, in addition to the most recent matchdays. So if you do have a few days off, it's hopefully not the end of the world for your bonus hopes. Either way, I think most of us would agree in simply wishing you a good holiday and to not worry too much about your results, should RL get in the way of RPing.