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A New UN Name because I don't want to WA this.

Poll ended at Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:07 pm

League of Nations
7
41%
Pact of Nations
0
No votes
Assembly of the World
1
6%
World Assembly (originality right here)
0
No votes
World Organisation
1
6%
General Assembly
4
24%
Organisation of United Nations
3
18%
Nations United
1
6%
 
Total votes : 17

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Minskiev
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minskiev » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:52 am

Sarderia, you need to stop calling other lore unrealistic when yours is questioned. It’s a logical fallacy.

On your response to the question of your lore, I honestly don’t know too much about it, so no argument there.
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Sarderia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sarderia » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:01 am

Minskiev wrote:Sarderia, you need to stop calling other lore unrealistic when yours is questioned. It’s a logical fallacy.

On your response to the question of your lore, I honestly don’t know too much about it, so no argument there.

You seems to point "logical fallacy" everywhere I made an argument, while I believe you have not discovered the meaning of that sentence yet. On Serbia-Macedonia's RP you called me the same, yet you did not respond when I pointed out your use of "logical fallacy" is false. Please do not spew out the word liberally when you doesn't know what it means.

I am pointing out at the fact the Co-OP scrutinized my app for supposedly being unrealistic, while their own app has several unrealistic factors as well, and I made sure that is not, in any way, related to the discussion regarding Venezuela ("On another unrelated note"). If I am avoiding the argument, or making a logical fallacy, I wouldn't bother to respond the Co-OP's argument that Venezuela "do not want to be an American colony", yet I responded, using historical facts as well.
Last edited by Sarderia on Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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People interpret the Scripture differently. Therefore, it makes sense for a group to uphold the principle, that God accepts everyone regardless of their preferrence - as long as they acceptes His grace and salvation.

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Mathuvan Union
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Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:06 am

Sarderia wrote:
Minskiev wrote:Sarderia, you need to stop calling other lore unrealistic when yours is questioned. It’s a logical fallacy.

On your response to the question of your lore, I honestly don’t know too much about it, so no argument there.

You seems to point "logical fallacy" everywhere I made an argument, while I believe you have not discovered the meaning of that sentence yet. On Serbia-Macedonia's RP you called me the same, yet you did not respond when I pointed out your use of "logical fallacy" is false. Please do not spew out the word liberally when you doesn't know what it means.

I am pointing out at the fact the Co-OP scrutinized my app for supposedly being unrealistic, while their own app has several unrealistic factors as well. If I am avoiding the argument, or making a logical fallacy, I wouldn't bother to respond the Co-OP's argument that Venezuela "do not want to be an American colony", yet I responded, using historical facts as well.

They can be a puppet state. Take it or leave it.

It’s highly unlikely that Venezuela would actually like being in the US, both right now and 70 years ago.

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Minskiev
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minskiev » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:08 am

I’m not spewing it out without knowing what it means. You constantly state the same old tu quoque fallacy. It means you also, because as defense, you bring up something about somebody often instead of refuting the claim. This time, you did refute the claim, but you didn’t last time, and you still brought up stuff about someone else.

A logical fallacy is a flaw in logic. For example, using a tu quoque fallacy:

Nicole identified that Hannah had committed a logical fallacy, but instead of addressing the substance of her claim, Hannah accused Nicole of committing a fallacy earlier on in the conversation.

This circumstance would be Monsone identified that Sarderia had illogical lore, but with addressing the lore, Sarderia accused Hypercapital of illogical lore earlier on in the discussion.
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Sarderia
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Postby Sarderia » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:09 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Sarderia wrote:You seems to point "logical fallacy" everywhere I made an argument, while I believe you have not discovered the meaning of that sentence yet. On Serbia-Macedonia's RP you called me the same, yet you did not respond when I pointed out your use of "logical fallacy" is false. Please do not spew out the word liberally when you doesn't know what it means.

I am pointing out at the fact the Co-OP scrutinized my app for supposedly being unrealistic, while their own app has several unrealistic factors as well. If I am avoiding the argument, or making a logical fallacy, I wouldn't bother to respond the Co-OP's argument that Venezuela "do not want to be an American colony", yet I responded, using historical facts as well.

They can be a puppet state. Take it or leave it.

It’s highly unlikely that Venezuela would actually like being in the US, both right now and 70 years ago.

Puerto Rico was highly unlikely actually like being in the US as well come the Spanish-American war, yet they seek statehood until now :)

Regardless, I am not looking to bring Giovenith here as well, so a puppet state it is then. Please color with the American colors as well on the map.
_[' ]_
(-_Q)
If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
You can be a Christian and LGBTQ+ at the same time!

People interpret the Scripture differently. Therefore, it makes sense for a group to uphold the principle, that God accepts everyone regardless of their preferrence - as long as they acceptes His grace and salvation.

Remember:
"God promises to make something good out of the storms that bring devastation to your life."
Romans 2:18
A proud Conservative, Lutheran, and Asian.
Yes, I failed miserably in Physics, and spectacularly in Mathemathics.
(Don't @ me about those things in RP)
Currently resorting to Biology as the last hope in STEM.
RIP Sarderistan 2017-2019

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Fennoscandia Union
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Posts: 85
Founded: Apr 07, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fennoscandia Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:09 am

Fennoscandia Union wrote:
Fennoscandia Union wrote:Country Name: Fourth Brazilian Republic
Fictional or Real: Real
Head of State: Eurico Gaspar Dutra
Government Type: Multi-Party Republic
Capital: Rio de Janeiro
GDP: $13 billion
Population: 52 million
Location: Historical Brazil
History: RL History
Faction: Non-Aligned


Can I change my history to: History: RL History until 1947 where the Salte Plan receives a significant amount of funding from the budget after it was proposed.


Can someone approve this.
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Mathuvan Union
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Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:10 am

Minskiev wrote:I’m not spewing it out without knowing what it means. You constantly state the same old tu quoque fallacy. It means you also, because as defense, you bring up something about somebody often instead of refuting the claim. This time, you did refute the claim, but you didn’t last time, and you still brought up stuff about someone else.

A logical fallacy is a flaw in logic. For example, using a tu quoque fallacy:

Nicole identified that Hannah had committed a logical fallacy, but instead of addressing the substance of her claim, Hannah accused Nicole of committing a fallacy earlier on in the conversation.

This circumstance would be Monsone identified that Sarderia had illogical lore, but with addressing the lore, Sarderia accused Hypercapital of illogical lore earlier on in the discussion.

Guys, if this goes to far, I’m banning you for the rest of the day. This doesn’t have to turn into argument.

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Mathuvan Union
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Mathuvan Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:10 am

Fennoscandia Union wrote:
Fennoscandia Union wrote:
Can I change my history to: History: RL History until 1947 where the Salte Plan receives a significant amount of funding from the budget after it was proposed.

I already did.
Can someone approve this.

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Fennoscandia Union
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Postby Fennoscandia Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:11 am

Thanks
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Sarderia
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Postby Sarderia » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:11 am

Minskiev wrote:I’m not spewing it out without knowing what it means. You constantly state the same old tu quoque fallacy. It means you also, because as defense, you bring up something about somebody often instead of refuting the claim. This time, you did refute the claim, but you didn’t last time, and you still brought up stuff about someone else.

A logical fallacy is a flaw in logic. For example, using a tu quoque fallacy:

Nicole identified that Hannah had committed a logical fallacy, but instead of addressing the substance of her claim, Hannah accused Nicole of committing a fallacy earlier on in the conversation.

This circumstance would be Monsone identified that Sarderia had illogical lore, but with addressing the lore, Sarderia accused Hypercapital of illogical lore earlier on in the discussion.

I already addressed Monsone's question regarding my app, and I made sure to include "on another unrelated note..." meaning I do not dispute the validity of Monsone's app, just on the curious fact that why France still has Lebanon in this RP.
_[' ]_
(-_Q)
If you support capitalism, put this in your signature.
You can be a Christian and LGBTQ+ at the same time!

People interpret the Scripture differently. Therefore, it makes sense for a group to uphold the principle, that God accepts everyone regardless of their preferrence - as long as they acceptes His grace and salvation.

Remember:
"God promises to make something good out of the storms that bring devastation to your life."
Romans 2:18
A proud Conservative, Lutheran, and Asian.
Yes, I failed miserably in Physics, and spectacularly in Mathemathics.
(Don't @ me about those things in RP)
Currently resorting to Biology as the last hope in STEM.
RIP Sarderistan 2017-2019

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Mathuvan Union
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Postby Mathuvan Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:11 am

Sarderia wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:They can be a puppet state. Take it or leave it.

It’s highly unlikely that Venezuela would actually like being in the US, both right now and 70 years ago.

Puerto Rico was highly unlikely actually like being in the US as well come the Spanish-American war, yet they seek statehood until now :)

Regardless, I am not looking to bring Giovenith here as well, so a puppet state it is then. Please color with the American colors as well on the map.

To be fair on the Puerto Ricans, that was 130 years ago.
Ok.

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Minskiev
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minskiev » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:12 am

Mathuvan Union wrote:
Minskiev wrote:I’m not spewing it out without knowing what it means. You constantly state the same old tu quoque fallacy. It means you also, because as defense, you bring up something about somebody often instead of refuting the claim. This time, you did refute the claim, but you didn’t last time, and you still brought up stuff about someone else.

A logical fallacy is a flaw in logic. For example, using a tu quoque fallacy:

Nicole identified that Hannah had committed a logical fallacy, but instead of addressing the substance of her claim, Hannah accused Nicole of committing a fallacy earlier on in the conversation.

This circumstance would be Monsone identified that Sarderia had illogical lore, but with addressing the lore, Sarderia accused Hypercapital of illogical lore earlier on in the discussion.

Guys, if this goes to far, I’m banning you for the rest of the day. This doesn’t have to turn into argument.


Alright, fine. Capitalist pig.
Gentlemen, you cant fight in here. This is the war room.
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Monsone
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Postby Monsone » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:35 am

Sarderia wrote:True, but Venezuela is also the first region to secede from Gran Colombia. Even at the first years of Gran Colombia, José Antonio Páez, the Commandant General of Venezuela, often clashed with Bolivar (the nation's leader whose residence is in Colombia most of the time). Bolivar himself prepared to march to Venezuela to supress the separatists in 1826. Suffice to say, "nationalist" identities doesn't matter too much now - Venezuela in this RP has the same degree of autonomy Puerto Rico had in our world this time, with Venezuelan citizens being US citizens.

Also, if we want to talk about realism, France shouldn't have owned Lebanon on 1950, because the French bombing of Damascus backfired into a British-founded retaliation by Syrians, and thus ousting any remnant of French presence in the Middle East. Lebanon also was a founding UN member state, so the League of Nations member status was officially terminated.


The reason having those lands is unrealistic is because in 1892, the US Navy did not have the power projection capabilities you would need. The Squadron of Evolution had 9 ships at the time, and by 1892, they where modern, but not great. Yes in the 1890s the USA was strong, but was lagging behind the other Great Powers. You said simply shelling a city did the job, but you would need to land troops, and in 1892, the US Army was far from modern (black powder trapdoor rifles where still standard issue for the US Army while smokeless powder became the global standard along with the bolt action rifle). And saying that nationalist identities don't mater is pretty BS since a nationalist identity is the basis of a modern state. ALL NATIONS HAVE A NATIONALIST IDENTIDY BECAUSE THAT IS HOW THEY FORM THE BASIS FOR AN US VS THEM MENTALITY WHICH IS A BUILDING BLOCK OF A NATIONSTATE. WITHOUT A NATIONALIST IDENTIDY, YOU DON'T HAVE A NATION.

As for Lebanon. There was a unilateral declaration of independence in 1941. But IRL the French weren't forced to recognize it until 1943, and French troops didn't leave IRL until 1946. In this scenarion, Lebanon did declare unilateral independence, but the Allies refused to recognize it, and Lebanon just became a part of France again albeit with a bit more autonomy and more rights. But still remaining French.

And before you start using events like the Bombing of Damascus, please learn what they even where about because your recounting of the events is completely off. The bombing occured between 1925 and 1926. Twenty years before the end of WW2, and the bombing only targeted Syria, which I no longer control. The bombing was to aid in crushing a rebelion in Syria. Not Lebanon. And that rebelion ended in a French victory and IRL France would keep those lands until 1945 and left them by free will and not by the UK supporting rebels because in 1945 the UK had bigger issues to deal with.
Last edited by Monsone on Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:44 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:34 pm

Minskiev wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:Guys, if this goes to far, I’m banning you for the rest of the day. This doesn’t have to turn into argument.


Alright, fine. Capitalist pig.

You're lucky this isn't an OOC thread or ... wait, it is. *** Warned for flaming. ***
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Fennoscandia Union
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Postby Fennoscandia Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:45 pm

So are we waiting for others to join or has the RP already started.
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Wasi State
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Postby Wasi State » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:50 pm

Fennoscandia Union wrote:So are we waiting for others to join or has the RP already started.

We're just waiting for Mathuvan to post the IC thread.

And while I've been waiting.

Factions- Majors in South Africa proper:

The National Party (NP)- Centered in Orange Free State, and Transvaal

The United Party (UP)- Centered in Cape of Good Hope

The African National Congress (ANC)- Centered in the native Bantustan areas and Natal

Factions in South West Africa:

South West Africa People’s Organisation of Namibia (SWAPO)- Centered in the native Bantustan areas

South West Africa Police and Territorial Force- Centered in the administration zones

German African Party (GAP)- Centered in German communities

Factions in Cabinda:

South African Atlantic Ocean Forces (SAAOF)

Cabinda based South African corporations

Guaranteed Foreign Volunteers:

Republic of Rhodesia

UN Security Forces

In the event of continued anarchy and societal collapse.

Boer Republic- Breaks away from National Party cores

Ossewabrandwag (OB)- German African Party turns into this after getting hijacked and will spread to both South West Africa and South Africa

African Resistance Movement (ARM)- Breaks away from United Party cores

Azanian People's Liberation Army (APLA)- Breaks away from ANC cores
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Bolslania
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Postby Bolslania » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:51 pm

Country Name: Federal Republic of Germany
Fictional or Real:Real
Head of State: Chancellor Konrad Adenauer
Government Type: Federal Republic
Capital: Bonn
GDP: 6 billion
Population: 50 million
Location: IRL west Germany
History: IRL history
Faction: NATO
Tier: 6 Level:5 Type:6 Nation according to this index
Military is a 9-9-6 according to this index
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HypErcApitAl
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Postby HypErcApitAl » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:53 pm

Monsone wrote:
Mathuvan Union wrote:I assume that Korea didn’t split up?
Monsone is this a rule violation?


Not really. Korea should have remained united, and there is only a Korean people (North and South Korea are just nationalities). Plus it is a pretty minor change that might delete the Korean war, but gives the USSR a western aligned nation on it's border, which is likely enough to start something similar to the Korean war. Or the solution is the Communist Party of Vanguard is controlled by the USSR and the Korean Peoples army is still a thing. I also thing joining NATO is a no, since the USA would create SEATO for Asia.


Either/or would work, since nato is North Atlantic Treaty Organization, though if all of Eurasia (pro-US or anti-Soviets) were in a faction, it'd probably be called the WTO (Worldwide Treaty Organization) or something.

I don't see a point in splitting-up NATO into sectors, but I guess it'd probably be because every region is different and it'd help the US to focus on different zones.
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Fennoscandia Union
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Postby Fennoscandia Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:00 pm

I think the US should create the WTO as soon as they get the opportunity. Like if the Soviets expand their sphere of influence in Asia, Latin America, or Africa. I think the US has adjusted their history to get large parts of the Caribbean and South America, just so they can limit the Soviets in expanding their sphere of influence in Latin America, and the prevent Latin American communist states, especially one in Cuba.
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Monsone
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Postby Monsone » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:03 pm

Fennoscandia Union wrote:I think the US should create the WTO as soon as they get the opportunity. Like if the Soviets expand their sphere of influence in Asia, Latin America, or Africa. I think the US has adjusted their history to get large parts of the Caribbean and South America, just so they can limit the Soviets in expanding their sphere of influence in Latin America, and the prevent Latin American communist states, especially one in Cuba.

But the biggest threat (and the reason NATO was created) was because the USSR has most of it's military facing Rurope and not Asia. And if I'm being honest, be biggest communist threat in 1950 to most countries is their local communist parties.

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HypErcApitAl
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Postby HypErcApitAl » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:05 pm

Fennoscandia Union wrote:I think the US should create the WTO as soon as they get the opportunity. Like if the Soviets expand their sphere of influence in Asia, Latin America, or Africa. I think the US has adjusted their history to get large parts of the Caribbean and South America, just so they can limit the Soviets in expanding their sphere of influence in Latin America, and the prevent Latin American communist states, especially one in Cuba.


It prevents irl Venezuela, Cuba and ofcourse Nicaragua and Mexico leaning red, but also, irl USA has/had eyes on those lands, so...

I don't think an American Empire would be farfetched, or the WTO, though historically I do not understand why a WTO wasn't made irl (since Japan has historical beef w/ Russia and all)

though w/ irl current politics w/ China and all, I could see the WTO forming (since everyone's currently mad @ china rn)
(quotes)
"Only the Strongest shall survive." ~ My quote, for awhile.
"The 2A protects the First." ~ Someone.
"Peace is a lie." ~ Sith Code (excerpt)

(Titles)
"Too dangerous to be left/kept alive..." ~ Mace Windu

Classical Liberal (ClaLib), Proud stan of Kim Jong Un's sis, Kanye West 2024, Vermin Supreme (whenever)

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Fennoscandia Union
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Postby Fennoscandia Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:07 pm

If China is nationalist and not communist, I don't see a reason to create the WTO instead of NATO, but I do believe if China is communist, that the Soviet Union and China will attempt to expand their sphere of influence in Asia, especially South Asia and East Asia, and the WTO will be helpful in protecting Asia better than was done in our timeline.
Last edited by Fennoscandia Union on Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wasi State
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Wasi State » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:09 pm

Btw will we have a map for this RP like the last one?
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Fennoscandia Union
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Postby Fennoscandia Union » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:11 pm

An American Empire isn't too farfetched, but I'm trying to argue instead of America becoming OP in the Americas, they could create a more powerful WTO, and protect the Americas.
Last edited by Fennoscandia Union on Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Minskiev
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minskiev » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:15 pm

Fennoscandia Union wrote:If China is nationalist and not communist, I don't see a reason to create the WTO instead of NATO, but I do believe if China is communist, that the Soviet Union and China will attempt to expand their sphere of influence in Asia, especially South Asia and East Asia, and the WTO will be helpful in protecting Asia better than was done in our timeline.


“Communist” China, that is.

Also RIP for the warn even though I’m the Soviet Union...

Eh. Doesn’t make too much of a difference for me, I don’t plan on going to political threads actively. Those things are ban death traps.
Gentlemen, you cant fight in here. This is the war room.
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