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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53009
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:34 am



Companies that can actually win a competitive tender process because they actually operate in and have experience with the sector in question. Companies that the government can actually expect to deliver on the investment rather than just take the taxpayers' money and run.
Last edited by Vassenor on Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:41 am

Vassenor wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well who would you give them to?


Companies that can actually win a competitive tender process because they actually operate in and have experience with the sector in question. Companies that the government can actually expect to deliver on the investment rather than just take the taxpayers' money and run.

that doesn't sound british.
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“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53009
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:50 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Companies that can actually win a competitive tender process because they actually operate in and have experience with the sector in question. Companies that the government can actually expect to deliver on the investment rather than just take the taxpayers' money and run.

that doesn't sound british.


You're right. It sounds like something a competent government would do rather than one run by a bunch of racist disaster capitalists.
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Gormwood
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Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:18 am

Vassenor wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:that doesn't sound british.


You're right. It sounds like something a competent government would do rather than one run by a bunch of racist disaster capitalists.

Somebody needs to tell him the British East India Company has been extinct for centuries.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:22 am

Vassenor wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:that doesn't sound british.


You're right. It sounds like something a competent government would do rather than one run by a bunch of racist disaster capitalists.

Disaster capitalism is the best sort of capitalism.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Agarntrop
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8342
Founded: May 14, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Agarntrop » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:41 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
You're right. It sounds like something a competent government would do rather than one run by a bunch of racist disaster capitalists.

Disaster capitalism is the best sort of capitalism.

what
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Vassenor
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Posts: 53009
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:46 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
You're right. It sounds like something a competent government would do rather than one run by a bunch of racist disaster capitalists.

Disaster capitalism is the best sort of capitalism.


So you admit you want Britain to fail then?
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:53 am

Vassenor wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Disaster capitalism is the best sort of capitalism.


So you admit you want Britain to fail then?

Britain is a state, so of course I want it to fail.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Hrythingland
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 467
Founded: Dec 17, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hrythingland » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:52 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So you admit you want Britain to fail then?

Britain is a state, so of course I want it to fail.

Problem with that is that even if your own state falls, other states will still exist. And then you're just toothless prey.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Posts: 1451
Founded: May 23, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:57 am

Hrythingland wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Britain is a state, so of course I want it to fail.

Problem with that is that even if your own state falls, other states will still exist. And then you're just toothless prey.

It would also turn criminal justice into a limited commodity, and it doesn't have to be a mere commodity. Not everyone can afford private police and court protections.
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Gormwood
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:44 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Hrythingland wrote:Problem with that is that even if your own state falls, other states will still exist. And then you're just toothless prey.

It would also turn criminal justice into a limited commodity, and it doesn't have to be a mere commodity. Not everyone can afford private police and court protections.

He probably assumes he can.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:31 am

Hirota wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
I think it's less the view and more the language he chose to express it. "damn blacks" is always going to create an issue.
Sure. A poor choice of words shouldn't be a reason to lose a job though - see Rebecca Long-Bailey.

Nuance is important, and sometimes people do a shit job of conveying it. But they should be given the opportunity to clarify if challenged.

I didn't think that Rebecca Long-Bailey was fired because she made a poor choice of words.
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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28885
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:48 am

Scrolling down the pictures in this BBC article, and notice this picture:

Image

Image

Image

Dafuq? :lol2:
Last edited by The New California Republic on Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andsed
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Posts: 10099
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Andsed » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:50 am

The New California Republic wrote:Scrolling down the pictures in this BBC article, and notice this picture:


Dafuq? :lol2:

Image

I mean at least he is actually covering his nose and mouth.
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The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45139
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:50 am

The look on the guy behind the pillar's face lol

Ill go on a limb and assume the guy did it on purpose when they noticed the camera
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Novus America
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:35 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Novus America wrote:
If the are already willing to kill the the victim because of a possible death penalty they will probably kill to avoid jail. If the death penalty does not deter people more than jail, then it does not follow that it makes people more likely to commit murder.

It prevents them from doing it again. It is the most effective form of incapacitation based justice. Although it should not be used in all cases, it could be an option on the table.

No, let's not allow more state-sanctioned killing. We already let the military do it, don't spread that to the justice system


Well that is an ideologically and moral disagreement, the purpose of the state is to the overall safety of overall, which sometimes in extreme cases can override such individual concerns.

But you oppose the state in general so I doubt we are going to make any progress on this.
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:39 am

Novus America wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:No, let's not allow more state-sanctioned killing. We already let the military do it, don't spread that to the justice system


Well that is an ideologically and moral disagreement, the purpose of the state is to the overall safety of overall, which sometimes in extreme cases can override such individual concerns.

But you oppose the state in general so I doubt we are going to make any progress on this.

I oppose killing. The only option that the state should see as a civilised one is rehabilitation.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Novus America
Post Czar
 
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:41 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well that is an ideologically and moral disagreement, the purpose of the state is to the overall safety of overall, which sometimes in extreme cases can override such individual concerns.

But you oppose the state in general so I doubt we are going to make any progress on this.

I oppose killing. The only option that the state should see as a civilised one is rehabilitation.


And I disagree. Although rehabilitation should be a priority, incapacitation of violent criminals is a legitimate state function.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Gormwood
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Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:53 am

Novus America wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I oppose killing. The only option that the state should see as a civilised one is rehabilitation.


And I disagree. Although rehabilitation should be a priority, incapacitation of violent criminals is a legitimate state function.

Child molestors are inherently violent? Proof please.
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North German Realm
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Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby North German Realm » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:07 am

Gormwood wrote:
Novus America wrote:
And I disagree. Although rehabilitation should be a priority, incapacitation of violent criminals is a legitimate state function.

Child molestors are inherently violent? Proof please.

I wish I existed in a world where this was ironic.
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Gormwood
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:10 am

North German Realm wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Child molestors are inherently violent? Proof please.

I wish I existed in a world where this was ironic.

What, not going to call me Pedo Enabler for wanting proof for such a bold claim?
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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36359
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:13 am

Gormwood wrote:
Novus America wrote:
And I disagree. Although rehabilitation should be a priority, incapacitation of violent criminals is a legitimate state function.

Child molestors are inherently violent? Proof please.


Molesting a child is a violent act. They are stil violent criminals, having committed a violent crime.

I never said all were necessarily inherently irredeemably violent but after they have raped a child it shows they do not have the self control and morality to always avoid raping a child, clearly, and are thus dangerous and society needs protection against that, especially as this is an epidemic problem.

I never said “automatically execute them all for a first offense” though.
Maybe some can be rehabilitated enough for us to be confident they are no longer going to do it again. But I doubt all can be.
Last edited by Novus America on Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Andsed
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10099
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Andsed » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:16 am

Gormwood wrote:
Novus America wrote:
And I disagree. Although rehabilitation should be a priority, incapacitation of violent criminals is a legitimate state function.

Child molestors are inherently violent? Proof please.

... Are- are you trying to argue molesting a child is not an inherently violent act? Because it comes off that way.
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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:18 am

Andsed wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Child molestors are inherently violent? Proof please.

... Are- are you trying to argue molesting a child is not an inherently violent act? Because it comes off that way.

So child molestation always involves physically restraining a child against their will? That's like saying it's not rape if the victim is not screaming and struggling.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 141588
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:21 am

What in the fucking hell is happening right now?
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
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