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by Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:14 pm
by The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 pm
by Uiiop » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:32 pm
The Two Jerseys wrote:They must be using the Merriam-Webster definition of "hate speech"...
by Bear Stearns » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:45 pm
by Cekoviu » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:50 pm
Bear Stearns wrote:More alarming has been the simultaneous purge conducted by YouTube.
by The Alma Mater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:59 pm
by Diarcesia » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:01 pm
The Alma Mater wrote:So what is the majority of reddit users - and how will they respond if due to these rules that majority changes ?
Example: say that currently the majority is gay. Would gaybashing then be fine until the influx of enthusiastic gaybashers has caused the balance to shift?
by The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:02 pm
Diarcesia wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:So what is the majority of reddit users - and how will they respond if due to these rules that majority changes ?
Example: say that currently the majority is gay. Would gaybashing then be fine until the influx of enthusiastic gaybashers has caused the balance to shift?
Congratulations. They just played themselves.
by The Alma Mater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:04 pm
by Aureumterra » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:05 pm
by Galloism » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:06 pm
Diarcesia wrote:We live in a societyThe rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority
It also means it doesn't protect the Chinese against discrimination (since they're the most populous country).
And males as well? Galloism, take note.
by Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:07 pm
by Cekoviu » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:08 pm
Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.
by The Two Jerseys » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:09 pm
by Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:11 pm
Cekoviu wrote:Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.
the """"""gender critical"""""" subreddit was chock-full of hate speech against transgenders, wtf are you on about
by The Alma Mater » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:11 pm
Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.
by The Reformed American Republic » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm
Wallenburg wrote:Ah yes, shutting down harassment and hate groups is so awful. In fact, it's just as bad as Nazi Germany.
by Galloism » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm
The Alma Mater wrote:Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.
Which is ofc fine. Reddit is a private company after all, if they dislike a certain speech in their home they can toss the speakers out. Just like the mods here can do.
But they should just outright say that instead of using silly implications like "it is fine to be racist against the majority".
by Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm
The Alma Mater wrote:Purgatio wrote:Its honestly ridiculous that the Gender Critical sub-reddit and Right-Wing LGBT sub-reddit were banned. There was absolutely nothing on either subreddit that could even plausibly described as 'hateful', unless the argument is being right-wing and LGBT, or being a gender-critical feminist, is now somehow an inherently 'hateful' thing to do. Reddit is really just single-handedly banning entire political opinions altogether under the guise of preventing 'hate speech'. But really, if you hold certain political opinions, there's no respectful and civil way for you to express it without Reddit deeming it to be 'hate speech'.
Which is ofc fine. Reddit is a private company after all, if they dislike a certain speech in their home they can toss the speakers out. Just like the mods here can do.
But they should just outright say that instead of using silly implications like "it is fine to be racist against the majority".
by Galloism » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:15 pm
Purgatio wrote:The Alma Mater wrote:
Which is ofc fine. Reddit is a private company after all, if they dislike a certain speech in their home they can toss the speakers out. Just like the mods here can do.
But they should just outright say that instead of using silly implications like "it is fine to be racist against the majority".
Of course Reddit is legally allowed to do it, no questions about that. But it irks me the way they are framing this, the whole 'Remember the Human' and 'Rule 1' and going on and on about how you cannot 'promote hate' on a 'vulnerable community'. Its nonsense. Nothing in r/GenderCritical or r/RightWingLGBT preyed on or attacked vulnerable communities or minorities, they just promoted views that some in those communities disagree with. Has it become hateful now to just express differing opinions on an issue, where some in a minority community might disgaree or take issue?
I think the biggest issue is Reddit hasn't given us a coherent definition of what counts as 'hate speech', or a failure to 'Remember the Human' as they would put it. The people on r/LGBDropTheT are already starting to get worried about their subreddit getting banned, and I don't blame them, because its impossible to follow the rules when its thoroughly unclear what the rules even are. 'Remember the Human' is not a useful rule or even a useful guideline.
by The Lone Alliance » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:16 pm
Bear Stearns wrote:More alarming has been the simultaneous purge conducted by YouTube.
by Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:16 pm
Galloism wrote:Purgatio wrote:
Of course Reddit is legally allowed to do it, no questions about that. But it irks me the way they are framing this, the whole 'Remember the Human' and 'Rule 1' and going on and on about how you cannot 'promote hate' on a 'vulnerable community'. Its nonsense. Nothing in r/GenderCritical or r/RightWingLGBT preyed on or attacked vulnerable communities or minorities, they just promoted views that some in those communities disagree with. Has it become hateful now to just express differing opinions on an issue, where some in a minority community might disgaree or take issue?
I think the biggest issue is Reddit hasn't given us a coherent definition of what counts as 'hate speech', or a failure to 'Remember the Human' as they would put it. The people on r/LGBDropTheT are already starting to get worried about their subreddit getting banned, and I don't blame them, because its impossible to follow the rules when its thoroughly unclear what the rules even are. 'Remember the Human' is not a useful rule or even a useful guideline.
r/leftwingmaleadvocates is also nervous.
by Cekoviu » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:16 pm
Purgatio wrote:Cekoviu wrote:the """"""gender critical"""""" subreddit was chock-full of hate speech against transgenders, wtf are you on about
It really wasn't. At all. Its not 'hate speech' to simply disagree with something. r/GenderCritical simply promoted a differing view of feminism, one that defined "women" (the class deemed to be oppressed by patriarchy and in need of liberation) based on biological sex, rather than gender identity.
That's not a hateful opinion. Its an opinion trans people understandably vociferously disagree with, but that doesn't make it 'hate speech'. There ought to be room for a free and diverse marketplace of ideas on views like this, including whether feminism and women's liberation movements are better defined around biological sex or gender identity. Rather than banning an entire position on that controversial issue as 'hate speech', which stifles discussion and discourse in feminist circles.
by New Bremerton » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:18 pm
by Purgatio » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:18 pm
Cekoviu wrote:Purgatio wrote:
It really wasn't. At all. Its not 'hate speech' to simply disagree with something. r/GenderCritical simply promoted a differing view of feminism, one that defined "women" (the class deemed to be oppressed by patriarchy and in need of liberation) based on biological sex, rather than gender identity.
That's not a hateful opinion. Its an opinion trans people understandably vociferously disagree with, but that doesn't make it 'hate speech'. There ought to be room for a free and diverse marketplace of ideas on views like this, including whether feminism and women's liberation movements are better defined around biological sex or gender identity. Rather than banning an entire position on that controversial issue as 'hate speech', which stifles discussion and discourse in feminist circles.
there is a difference between holding a differing view of feminism and constantly spewing vile vitriol about trans women. /r/GenderCritical did the latter, not just the former.
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