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[DRAFT] Repeal: "GA#141 Permit Male Circumcision

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Lucius Caecilius Iucundus
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Founded: May 21, 2020
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Postby Lucius Caecilius Iucundus » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:51 pm

Quintus Caecilius Iucundus rose to speak. "This delegation emphatically supports this proposal and hopes for the enactment of a Resolution that would outlaw male genital mutilation. We have drafted a proposal that would have such an effect."

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Sierra Lyricalia
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:38 pm

Lucius Caecilius Iucundus wrote:Quintus Caecilius Iucundus rose to speak. "This delegation emphatically supports this proposal and hopes for the enactment of a Resolution that would outlaw male genital mutilation. We have drafted a proposal that would have such an effect."


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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:53 pm

Oppose.

The clause about cultural suppression is a joke. The main reason people want to repeal this legislation is so that they can suppress Jewish religious practices.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Isaris
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Postby Isaris » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:16 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Oppose.

The clause about cultural suppression is a joke. The main reason people want to repeal this legislation is so that they can suppress Jewish religious practices.

"Isaris fails to see how adult circumcision is not a reasonable enough accommodation for its Jewish community. We would remind the ambassador that the circumcision of adult converts already regularly occurs. We do not see how, given that, the Jewish religion necessitates that this be done during infancy. We find your insinuation that we wish to suppress these practices on this basis to be highly insulting."

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Astrobolt
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Postby Astrobolt » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:01 pm

"I fail to see why a repeal is necessary. The only valid reason to restrict circumcision is to prevent minors from getting circumcised, as they are unable to consent. Why not just make a resolution banning the practice for minors?"
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Lucius Caecilius Iucundus
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Postby Lucius Caecilius Iucundus » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:10 pm

Astrobolt wrote:"I fail to see why a repeal is necessary. The only valid reason to restrict circumcision is to prevent minors from getting circumcised, as they are unable to consent. Why not just make a resolution banning the practice for minors?"

"The 141th Resolution requires member nations to legalize male circumcision in all cases, including in cases where it is performed upon minors. Thus a repeal of this resolution would be necessary in order to enact a new one that would prohibit the circumcision of minors."

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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:50 pm

Lucius Caecilius Iucundus wrote:"The 141th Resolution requires member nations to legalize male circumcision in all cases, including in cases where it is performed upon minors. Thus a repeal of this resolution would be necessary in order to enact a new one that would prohibit the circumcision of minors."


OOC:
For the record, there's nothing in
OBLIGES all member states to permit the practice of male circumcision, notwithstanding their authority to regulate the procedure.

That prevents Member-States from regulating it; indeed, specific allowance is made for such. Whether or not it bans restrictions of infant circumcision is up to your interpretation, and it'd be odd if your Government interpreted it in a way that harmed it when there's another, perfectly legitimate interpretation, that doesn't.
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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:04 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Oppose.

The clause about cultural suppression is a joke. The main reason people want to repeal this legislation is so that they can suppress Jewish religious practices.

“Most cases against circumcision focus on the fact that the procedure violates the bodily autonomy of the individual it is performed on if they are below the age of, and unable to give, informed consent. Framing this as being solely targeted at the Jewish faith is inaccurate, and irrelevant if the procedure is performed later, when the patient is capable of consenting to it.”



“Although the Confederacy interprets the current proposal in the subsequently stated manner, we would be fully in favor of a replacement proposal having a clause which specifically and clearly prevented underage minors to be subjected to it without their informed consent, albeit medical necessity which has absolutely no less drastic options, surgical or otherwise.”
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Kamchakta
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Postby Kamchakta » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:07 am

For the record, we are not forcing nations to ban circumcision. This is to repeal a very poorly worded resolution that is a decade old.
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Lucius Caecilius Iucundus
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Postby Lucius Caecilius Iucundus » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:18 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:The clause about cultural suppression is a joke. The main reason people want to repeal this legislation is so that they can suppress Jewish religious practices.

"We think that bodily autonomy takes precedence over religion," quipped Quintus. "We imagined that you would agree with this statement."

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Kamchakta
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Postby Kamchakta » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:23 am

Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:Sigh...these things are always so flipping tiresome...

Oh, yes. The entire Muslim world, Jewish communities across the globe, large swathes of the British Commonwealth, and especially the third most populous country on Earth -- still do not, by and large, find the concept of male circumcision offensive, yet in retaining this resolution somehow it's the World Assembly that is bizarrely "behind the times."

(Hold off on that impulse to post some lame NS != RL retort now; the NS world also contains numerous Muslim, Jewish and British-heritage states.)

Why, oh why, must every repeal incorporate the standard boilerplate "the author had good intentions" filler line -- when everybody knows it means precisely nothing?

Yeah...larger does not equal more diverse. I can easily triple the size of a 50-member college biology class by inviting in 100 more white guys -- that would actually make the group less diverse. At any rate, there were already "many different cultures" represented in the WA before, and they still collectively decided this resolution was a good idea.

There are risks associated with any surgical procedure; doesn't mean we ban them all.

No, but together with Patients Rights Act it does allow you to forbid it in your own nation. Isn't that good enough? Aren't all these "many different societies" in the WA entitled to make up their own minds?

A cruel and barbaric, not to mention massively misogynistic, practice is banned, whereas a much simpler and (comparatively) more compassionate practice is not. So?

Yes they can. PRA makes it quite clear that nations can still ban infant circumcision, and thus, this resolution only expressly protects voluntary circumcision requested by a consenting adult.

So, the repeal won't make you do anything you don't want to do, but the replacement resolution might. Oh, what to do, what to do?

Only on a voluntary basis.

No it does not.

*snort!* "Men's rights." Always a winning argument.

The ones you admitted before were minor and rare?

Better luck next time.


Yes, many Muslim, Jewish, and Christian (even though the USA is the only one and the bible does not say to do so) do not find male circumcision offensive. We also do not. However, we are pointing out the resolution GA#114 is poorly worded and does not protect the rights of minors.

Regarding surgeries. I agree with the point that all surgeries carry risks. Maybe I should have been more clear. Male circumcision carries risks with no proven benefit or need to do so in the first place. It is a redundant procedure that is practiced for religious purposes which I can respect, and Americans who feel they need their sons to look like them even though their religion says nothing about it.

The Patients Rights Act is comprehensive. That being said, sure I can explain the entire procedure to a 2-year-old child and he can nod and not understand anything and out come the knives. Also, it does not make it clear you can ban infant circumcision, it says a guardian or adult can take the place of the child to consent to such procedures on behalf of the child who does not understand.

Wait, how is Male Circumcision a "more compassionate practice" I mean, yes comparatively so as you said but compassionate would not be the right word at all... I am starting to suspect you are one of these women who think circumcision is nothing and you can impose it on others. Compassionate means it is somehow kind to chop off a male foreskin? The original purpose of circumcision later in the USA was on the grounds of stopping masturbation which while it does not mean to remove the feeling completely like in FGM, has a similar goal. Hilarious to say the least.

Clearly, you think Men's rights is a joke. I am not even some MRA activist and I always found them a bit over the top in their blame game considering it is true men have had it easier historically. People like you however are jokes who feel men's rights mean nothing. So I guess the human race only consists of females? Sorry to say sis, many females disagree.
Last edited by Kamchakta on Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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A homogenous Han Chinese nation that successfully weathered the era of colonialism and managed to establish itself in a new world order with focus on science and technology and constant progress to improve the lives for all of humanity. China under the Liang Dynasty will advance as one nation and will not fazed. In the spirit of nurturing rightness and from the ashes of the former glory of Imperial China.

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Kamchakta
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Founded: Mar 15, 2017
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Postby Kamchakta » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:25 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Oppose.

The clause about cultural suppression is a joke. The main reason people want to repeal this legislation is so that they can suppress Jewish religious practices.


So we must uphold Jewish religious practices in the World Assembly but not others? Also, it is far from suppressing Judaism's practices. The above resolution to "ban male circumcision is not our resolution, someone just put it there. Our aim is to repeal it not to ban the practice but to show the resolution is outdated and has gray areas.
The Empire Of China


A homogenous Han Chinese nation that successfully weathered the era of colonialism and managed to establish itself in a new world order with focus on science and technology and constant progress to improve the lives for all of humanity. China under the Liang Dynasty will advance as one nation and will not fazed. In the spirit of nurturing rightness and from the ashes of the former glory of Imperial China.

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Kamchakta
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Founded: Mar 15, 2017
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Postby Kamchakta » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:27 am

Lucius Caecilius Iucundus wrote:Quintus Caecilius Iucundus rose to speak. "This delegation emphatically supports this proposal and hopes for the enactment of a Resolution that would outlaw male genital mutilation. We have drafted a proposal that would have such an effect."


Unfortunately, we disagree with such a resolution. We believe nations have a right to continue the practice. We are repealing this GA#114 on the basis of rights of people and not to ban the practice.
The Empire Of China


A homogenous Han Chinese nation that successfully weathered the era of colonialism and managed to establish itself in a new world order with focus on science and technology and constant progress to improve the lives for all of humanity. China under the Liang Dynasty will advance as one nation and will not fazed. In the spirit of nurturing rightness and from the ashes of the former glory of Imperial China.

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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:51 am

Kamchakta, you aren’t doing yourself any favours by insulting people. Also, please don’t quadruple post.


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Kamchakta
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Postby Kamchakta » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:34 am

Honeydewistania wrote:Kamchakta, you aren’t doing yourself any favours by insulting people. Also, please don’t quadruple post.

My apologies, I got ahead of myself. I'd better get back to him at a later date
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A homogenous Han Chinese nation that successfully weathered the era of colonialism and managed to establish itself in a new world order with focus on science and technology and constant progress to improve the lives for all of humanity. China under the Liang Dynasty will advance as one nation and will not fazed. In the spirit of nurturing rightness and from the ashes of the former glory of Imperial China.

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Stellar Colonies
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Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:08 pm

The Confederate representative enters the chamber, sitting down at his seat and gently rapping the desk with a pen.

"Is there any interest in this repeal or one like it, considering it would be necessary for the current circumcision proposal being prepared?"
Native of The East Pacific and Northern California
Opinions and Puppets
If you want a mental image of me: straight(?) white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

I don't think the political compass is
fully accurate, but here are my results:

X-Axis: -5.38
Y-Axis: -2.62

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.
Stellar Colonies is a loose confederacy comprised from most of the human-settled parts of the galaxy.

Ida Station is the only Confederate member state permitted to join the WA.

Add 1200 years for the date I use.

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Omigodtheykilledkenny
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Postby Omigodtheykilledkenny » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:14 pm

OOC: I don't know how long it takes before gravedigging someone else's thread is no longer considered acceptable, but thanks nonetheless for gravedigging this one. It's condescending, asinine, not to mention insulting to many WA members. No offense, but next time, learn to leave well enough alone.
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