Viva la Chaz! Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ)

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Some Business Owners have been asked to pay a "fee" to the new masters of the CHAZ.

"Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes."

[Cisairse]

Some Business Owners have been asked to pay a "fee" to the new masters of the CHAZ.

"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Right, I must've missed the part where he was democratically elected in a fair and open system while his every move is under intense public scrutiny with an established system of checks and balances in place to prevent tyranny and oppression.

I'm not sure why you believe that consent to a power structure can only be expressed via democratic elections. That's very inconsistent with how political theorists have more or less always used the term "consent."

The people of North Korea express their consent for the regime by following its orders. The entire populace could, at any given point, just decide that they don't give a fuck about Kim and either die violent deaths or actually depose him. That they do not do this, and thus implicitly give their consent for his ruling over them, is how Kim remains in power.

Probably because they've been brainwashed all their lives to believe he's an all-powerful god who knows when they've been super-super-bad traitor double-thinkers and believe any attempt to try and stage a rebellion is literally impossible because they don't know any better.

You can't consent to something when you've been denied exposure to an alternative.

[Vetalia]

You don't have power without consent of the governed. These """warlords""" have no more power than the rest of the people will give them, which, as you can imagine, probably isn't much.

Sure, but they've got the guns and the people don't.

[Vetalia]

"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

Right, because business owners subject to an extortion racket are going to substantiate their claims in an area with no police protection. You goofballs really do live in clown world...face it, the CHAZ has degenerated into a warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy in a single day.

[The Black Forrest]

Some Business Owners have been asked to pay a "fee" to the new masters of the CHAZ.

"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

How many times has the WSJ published fluff?

Protection money is common in many areas of the world.

[Greed and Death]

"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

How many times has the WSJ published fluff?

Protection money is common in many areas of the world.

The real problem arises that the Russian mafia controls that area and will likely not take kindly to this shit.

I suspect sometime next month leadership is knocked off. Time these kids learn how the real world works.

[Cisairse]

I'm not sure why you believe that consent to a power structure can only be expressed via democratic elections. That's very inconsistent with how political theorists have more or less always used the term "consent."

The people of North Korea express their consent for the regime by following its orders. The entire populace could, at any given point, just decide that they don't give a fuck about Kim and either die violent deaths or actually depose him. That they do not do this, and thus implicitly give their consent for his ruling over them, is how Kim remains in power.

Probably because they've been brainwashed all their lives to believe he's an all-powerful god who knows when they've been super-super-bad traitor double-thinkers and believe any attempt to try and stage a rebellion is literally impossible because they don't know any better.

You can't consent to something when you've been denied exposure to an alternative.

That's...not how things work, at all.

The term "consent" here isn't the same as like consent in sex or what the loonies in the Libertarian Party USA think the taxation system should be based on.
It means that state apparatus can only exist in the context of a society which approves of it enough to be either complicit or actively involved in its perpetuation. Whether that consent is informed or not is irrelevant, it's still required, because if it suddenly no longer existed then the power structures governing the society would be dissolved.

You could make the argument that expressing citizen consent by whether or not the people aren't literally killing themselves to exit a regime means that the society is a pretty terrible one, and you'd be correct; however, a society being pretty terrible doesn't mean that it isn't being perpetuated by people consenting to that society.

Likewise in the CHAZ, a militia having a monopoly on the ability to use force doesn't mean that that militia is some all-powerful """""warlord""""". There is no power structure whereas that militia is imposing a regime on other members of the CHAZ.

[The Black Forrest]

How are you going to pay for them?

With money

The orignal comment mentioned giving stuff away. Kind of hard to buy new.....l

[Vetalia]

The real problem arises that the Russian mafia controls that area and will likely not take kindly to this shit.

I suspect sometime next month leadership is knocked off. Time these kids learn how the real world works.

I doubt the Russian mafia will have much concern about the shortage of vegan products, either. The story of CHAZ is a bunch of soyboys declared independence and got a dose of reality, Third World style.

[Cisairse]

"Although this is in dispute and hasn’t been substantiated" seems like a pretty fucking important detail to leave out when you make resolute claims that aren't backed by the link you posted.

Right, because business owners subject to an extortion racket are going to substantiate their claims in an area with no police protection. You goofballs really do live in clown world...face it, the CHAZ has degenerated into a warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy in a single day.

There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

[Nakena]

The real problem arises that the Russian mafia controls that area and will likely not take kindly to this shit.

I suspect sometime next month leadership is knocked off. Time these kids learn how the real world works.

I doubt the Russian mafia will have much concern about the shortage of vegan products, either. The story of CHAZ is a bunch of soyboys declared independence and got a dose of reality, Third World style.

Theres various political and criminal groups and individuals who will taking advantage of the CHAZ in both the long and short run.

The needles and the junkies are already a foreshadowing.

[Vetalia]

There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

[Vetalia]

Theres various political and criminal groups and individuals who will taking advantage of the CHAZ in both the long and short run.

The needles and the junkies are already a foreshadowing.

Starvation, lawlessness, crime, drug abuse, extortion, criminal gangs headed by armed warlords running amok, what's not to love? For that matter, how much is on the shelves of that free store right now? Bet it doesn't look like it did yesterday!

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Probably because they've been brainwashed all their lives to believe he's an all-powerful god who knows when they've been super-super-bad traitor double-thinkers and believe any attempt to try and stage a rebellion is literally impossible because they don't know any better.

You can't consent to something when you've been denied exposure to an alternative.

That's...not how things work, at all.

The term "consent" here isn't the same as like consent in sex or what the loonies in the Libertarian Party USA think the taxation system should be based on.
It means that state apparatus can only exist in the context of a society which approves of it enough to be either complicit or actively involved in its perpetuation. Whether that consent is informed or not is irrelevant, it's still required, because if it suddenly no longer existed then the power structures governing the society would be dissolved.

You could make the argument that expressing citizen consent by whether or not the people aren't literally killing themselves to exit a regime means that the society is a pretty terrible one, and you'd be correct; however, a society being pretty terrible doesn't mean that it isn't being perpetuated by people consenting to that society.

Likewise in the CHAZ, a militia having a monopoly on the ability to use force doesn't mean that that militia is some all-powerful """""warlord""""". There is no power structure whereas that militia is imposing a regime on other members of the CHAZ.

Typical weaksauce Anarcho-apologist argument.

You cannot create a society without a hierarchy or power structure. It isn't possible. There is always one person or a group of people that have more power or influence over others, even if unofficially. You can make up some nonsense about "consent" but at the end of the day when you've got the barrel of a gun sticking in your face and the question is "submit or die", most people are going to believe they don't have a choice in the matter.

All you're basically doing is kicking everyone whose ever been oppressed while they're down because they didn't have the guts to rise up against their oppressors. Millions of starving Ukrainians didn't "consent" to Stalin's despotic genocide, they feared for their fucking lives. This equivalent to victim-blaming.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Republicans! Fox News! Trump! Fascists!

Did I cover all the excuses?

[The Black Forrest]

There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Because those in charge told you so.

[Vetalia]

Republicans! Fox News! Trump! Fascists!

Did I cover all the excuses?

Nah, you hit all of them, I was going to say Russians but that is covered by Trump, RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!

What is amazing is that of all the political and economic systems that have existed in human history only Communism needs to have its atrocious death toll, the highest in human history, to say nothing of the economic devastation inflicted, excused by "it's not real Communism!".

[Cisairse]

There is quite literally no evidence for that.

Go watch the actual video of the CHAZ I posted earlier and tell me if that looks like a "warlord/gangster raubwirtschaft autocracy."

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

[The Black Forrest]

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

I am not a rightest or a republican. I don't give chaz much credit. I think they will be gone.

[Nakena]

Theres various political and criminal groups and individuals who will taking advantage of the CHAZ in both the long and short run.

The needles and the junkies are already a foreshadowing.

Starvation, lawlessness, crime, drug abuse, extortion, criminal gangs headed by armed warlords running amok, what's not to love? For that matter, how much is on the shelves of that free store right now? Bet it doesn't look like it did yesterday!

Funfact that the Zapatistas (argueably one of the more sucessfull groups) are very strictly enforcing their laws and rules on their turf. They do not tolerate drunkenness etc in their area. I do not believe that Cisairse would be supportive of that. ; D

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I don't waste my time with propaganda videos, answer my question - why would anyone be reporting extortion if everything is A-OK and the CHAZ is a big happy family?

Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

And who "proved" that it was a lie and how? A neutral third party, or "CHAZ"?

[Vetalia]

Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

Yeah, those damn rightists making up the extortion racket to defame the leftist warlords with sociology degrees. You sound like Squealer from Animal Farm saying everything is great when you're in a world of shit.

[Cisairse]

Because rightists and Republicans are determined to discredit the CHAZ as much as possible.

Remember the fabrication that started spreading the other day that the CHAZ had "run out of food"? Total lie, made up by righists to try and get public opinion turned away from the zone.

And who "proved" that it was a lie and how? A neutral third party, or "CHAZ"?

The author of the tweet being passed around as "evidence" that they had run out of food confirmed that the tweet was fake and that they never posted it.

[Vetalia]

Funfact that the Zapatistas (argueably one of the more sucessfull groups) are very strictly enforcing their laws and rules on their turf. They do not tolerate drunkenness etc in their area. I do not believe that Cisairse would be supportive of that. ; D

Only Inner Party members and the warlord's inner circle are allowed to indulge in such substances.