What Would It Take for You to Vote for Biden?

[Valrifell]

Though it does not matter, I live in Maryland, a safe blue state, it is almost certain that all 10 of Maryland electoral votes is going to Biden, regardless if I vote for Biden, vote third party/independent, just not vote, or any other option really. However, voting third party might scare the Maryland Democrats to consider appealing to leftists if they don't want to be voted out in the next election (assuming they aren't voted out this time, I really hope Steny Hoyer loses his reelection, I already voted for his progressive challenger MaKayala Wilkes).

This is how people should vote.

Such sentiments of fear can be warped by skillful politicians into resentment against the insurrectionist leftists for not falling in line, you see this a lot online, actually. I mean sure I'd still do it and all, but they don't just give in to demands so easily, and historically this has been true as well.

[Thermodolia]

1. And I’m a libertarian.

2. As usual you are confused as to what I want.


3. Pot meet kettle


4. Gatekeeping is bad, m’kay

1. Good for you~
2. You want something that's never going to happen, and that's called naivety.
3. This right here is called "Hypocrisy."
4. Apparently it's only bad when it affects you.

You really have no idea what I want

[Thermodolia]

But it was legal. An ass move? Possibly but legal. It’s a shame the Dems didn’t do it first

Reid probably would have tbh. It's thanks to him that the GOP managed to get Kavanaugh and Gorsuch in instead of more moderate people.

I knew that move would bite him in the ass one day

[The Black Forrest]

When there was a Republican majority, before the 2016 election, they refused to confirm Obama's SCOTUS nominee because there was an impending election.

Rest assured that same Republican majority would rush a confirmation before Biden takes office (if he wins) if given the chance.

Absolutely. They will also magically forget the political leanings of the previous holder should be maintained.

[Cisairse]

You still haven't addressed anything I said. Remember that I am responding to you, not the other way around.

This is not about the merits of Williamson as a presidential candidate. She is an author and is quite happy being an author.

When I said "Williamson was a meme candidate," I was referring to her merits as a presidential candidate.

But anyway, are you trying to say that there is no space for spiritual belief in a presidential candidate? Or that there is, but it only Christianity? Or that yoga does not cause people to feel more reflective or meditative? What is your point?

I am saying that a political candidate advocating for something that is plainly insane makes them, in my view, a meme candidate.

[Mirjt]

The Supreme Court is getting brought up quite a bit.

I am of the opinion that the power of judicial review is autocratic (Thom Hartman wrote a good book describing out judicial review is detrimental to democracy). I am a little apprehensive about losing the power of the Supreme Court to protect our constitutional rights (especially for the 1st amendment, 8th amendment, and the 14th amendment), but it is rare that the Supreme Court is protecting our rights, even when they make a good decision they often are just reversing a previous bad decision of the court, like in Brown vs Board of Education when they reversed Plessey vs Ferguston. I do not think we can or should get rid of judicial review entirely, but we should pass legislation to restrict it - and that is surprising allowed by the Constitution because judicial review is not directly mentioned in the Constitution, only implied and implied by the Supreme Court itself in Marbury vs Madison.

I am also of the opinion we need serious judicial reforms like term limits and rotating justices. Robert Reich lays out some proposed judicial reforms in the following short YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxsOXTdCUaw

As for why the Supreme Court is so neccessary, I believe it is because it is too hard to amend the Constitution. If we could amend the Constitution the first thing we should do is amend Article V to make it easier (not easy) to amend the constitution and to provide the people with a direct way to call a Constitutional Convention (maybe through some kind of national referendum). However, because we can't do that we need the Supreme Court to reverse bad decisions like Citizens United (which is bad, but only becomes awful when combined with other bad decisions of the Supreme Court), and to uphold other decisions like Roe vs Wade (which is actually about how having an abortion is part of a woman's right to privacy).

Trump is only going to unthinkingly appoint to most ludicrous and right-wing justices to the Court, but I am not convinced that Biden will appoint anyone I would want either. Biden would probably appoint a neoliberal or conservative Democrat, or he may even go a little further right-wing to show he can compromise and work across the aisle (just like Obama did when he appointed Merrick Garland because he was so "moderate," and the Republicans in the Senate refused to do their Constitutional duty and hold a vote because they did not want to give Obama anything, they wanted their nominee to be the next president and to fill that spot, which did happen with Neil Gorsuch, and Mitch McConnel basically said that the Senate Republicans would not hold Trump to the same standard as Obama as that would be silly and foolish).

Though if we need a progressive to get their nominee on the court, there is always the possibility of a one-time court-packing strategy, where they raise the number of justices on the court to 15. I would call court-packing undemocratic, but the court is already undemocratic and poorly run, and I would be open to one-time court packing so long as it came with judicial reforms like term limits to ensure a less dysfunctional court in the future.

[New haven america]

1. Good for you~
2. You want something that's never going to happen, and that's called naivety.
3. This right here is called "Hypocrisy."
4. Apparently it's only bad when it affects you.

You really have no idea what I want

We do because you've spent a lot of the time since Sanders called it quits talking about how great your authoritarian socialist state born through accelerationist means would be.

Ironically, you have no fucking clue what I want, and I intend to keep it that way because some of the guesses are entertaining. Yours weren't though.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

You really have no idea what I want

We do because you've spent a lot of the time since Sanders called it quits talking about how great your authoritarian socialist state born through accelerationist means would be.

Ironically, you have no fucking clue what I want, and I intend to keep it that way because some of the guesses are entertaining. Yours were though.

I’m sensing a tone

[Thermodolia]

I know what the political compass is. I don’t need to be talked down to like I’m an idiot.


Liberals are against leftism. This has been the case for decades. Liberals would rather side with the capitalists than the leftists.


The US is already right wing authoritarian. Where have you been for the last century?


I’m not going to vote for a liberal. Especially not one who says that nothing will change. I refuse to do it.


Then you really don’t understand where I sit politically because you like to use the political compass a bit too much. Im not in the libertarian-left quadrant, I’m closer to the auth-center than not

1. If you know what it is, then fine, but your original comments betrayed that understanding, in that you appear to believe that an increased SCOTUS conservative majority under a Trump presidency would further your cause as a Green leftist because you don't consider yourself a liberal, which is nonsense.

No it’s you who misunderstood my views. I’m not a green leftist. I regularly wouldn’t support the greens but my only other option is not voting for president.

I’m an authoritarian socialist who has a good bit of social conservative views. Having the court being more conservative isn’t going to be a big issue. It has nothing to do with leftism or right wing or anything.


You just aren’t understanding where I am coming from.

2. It is obviously the most right-wing state in the world, economically, but it has historically been also the most liberal democracy in the world.

Right wing authoritarian doesn’t mean auto dictatorship.

That could change if you allow a solid majority SCOTUS which is conservative under a second term of an authoritarian right-wing president. You can do what you like, as it is your business, but as I said before, I am well aware that there is currently a conservative majority in the SCOTUS and that the president is currently right-wing. However, there is still a swing vote in the SCOTUS as there has been for generations,

There is no swing vote. Hasn’t been since Kennedy left.

and if that president finds himself with a strong conservative SCOTUS majority, he will be totally enabled to be as authoritarian as he wishes, as well as being completely right-wing, which he is and always has been, and as a Green party leftist I am seeking to understand why you believe that such a situation would be preferable where your interests are concerned to a liberal president.

Voting for the greens because they are the only option left =/= being a green leftist. That’s where you are stumbling. I’m not a green leftist. I’m an authoritarian socialist who’s close to the auth-center.

3. I don't care who you vote for, or whether you vote, and I am not telling you to vote or avoid voting for anyone. Actually, I already said that if I were a US citizen, at this point, I would vote Green as well, so I don't see what your problem is. I am talking about ideology.

Fair enough.

4. Again, that is fine, but how can you be authoritarian in the centre? What does the centre stand for?

Using the political compass the authoritarian center is the area between the red and blue segments of the authoritarian half of the compass.

You said that you supported strikes, etc. That is decidedly left-wing. You said you will be voting for the Green party, which is left-wing. So again, how does it make any sense to hold that position and also to have no problem with an authoritarian right-wing president and a strong conservative majority SCOTUS for a generation? I am not attacking you, I am genuinely curious as to how you reconcile these views, and if you can't, then I have to assume that you are confused.

I’m only voting green because I refuse to not vote and Trump is just not great but slightly better than Biden.

[Glamour]

You still haven't addressed anything I said. Remember that I am responding to you, not the other way around.

This is not about the merits of Williamson as a presidential candidate. She is an author and is quite happy being an author.[/quote[

When I said "Williamson was a meme candidate," I was referring to her merits as a presidential candidate.

I am saying that a political candidate advocating for something that is plainly insane makes them, in my view, a meme candidate.

You have fabricated a quotation by me. I did not say "When I said "Williamson was a meme candidate," I was referring to her merits as a presidential candidate."

I said, this is not about the merits of Williamson as a presidential candidate, because she is an author and is quite happy being an author.

If that is what you have to resort to then I have nothing further to add.

But the point is that Donald Trump was a meme candidate and he won, and a lot of things he said were interpreted, subjectively, as insane, by people who didn't like him. The media attempted to undermine him and they did the same to Marianne Williamson. I don't believe it was right in either case, but you clearly believe that it is right for the media to undermine candidates that you don't like.

By contrast, Joe Biden says things that are actually insane.

[Cisairse]

You still haven't addressed anything I said. Remember that I am responding to you, not the other way around.

This is not about the merits of Williamson as a presidential candidate. She is an author and is quite happy being an author.

But anyway, are you trying to say that there is no space for spiritual belief in a presidential candidate? Or that there is, but it only Christianity? Or that yoga does not cause people to feel more reflective or meditative? What is your point?

Just to remind you, your original point was that no Democratic presidential candidates had been blacked out by the media. I told you that Williamson was, and you eventually said that she deserved to be because she is "a loon". So are you happy with the media blacking out presidential candidates that you don't like? You said that she was a "meme candidate", and I told you that Trump was also, to which you responded simply, "Yes."

I wouldn't consider non-serious candidates being taken non-seriously as a "media blackout," tbh. Like, I wouldn't consider the lack of screentime given to Ken "Free Hugs Guy" Nwadike Jr. to be a "media blackout." Blackout implies deliberation.

Well let me remind you as well that Trump won

Sadly.

, so maybe you are missing a trick. Biden is a meme candidate, as any candidate in this day and age would be, but the memes are going to be what they are now, which is based on his incoherent behaviour, not on any degree of theatrics or showmanship.

Biden has relevant experience and hasn't yet said anything plainly insane without immediately backtracking, so he fails the meme candidate test in my book.

How is saying that yoga can help people be more peaceful in their thinking any more damaging than going to the UN assembly and threatening to "totally destroy North Korea"?

You're really misrepresenting her here. Williamson believed that yoga could actually solve geopolitical disputes, not just "help people be more peaceful in their thinking."

Believing that yoga can solve geopolitical disputes is obviously less insane than threatening an enemy country, and I'm not sure why you needed me to explain that to you.

What he should have done, and what she would have done had she ran and won in 2016, was to go to the DMZ and declare the Korean war over and step into North Korea, which he did do, but too late, once they had obtained a nuclear weapon. Now they are going to test SLBMs and there is nothing he can do about it. When it comes to foreign policy, one thing she said was that a lot of the US's issues with Latin America are due to its previous policies in Latin America. She said that the US has to work as much towards peacebuilding as it does towards preparing for war. She said that the Iraq War should never have happened but that Afghanistan was more complex. She said that the US should stop arming the Saudis against Yemen. She was against war in Iran but said that Soleimani was an evil man. Do you disagree with any of that?

I'm going to repeat something I said earlier that I guess you didn't read.

She's a loony and deserved no serious consideration. Her having some good opinions does not, and would not ever, change that.

[Glamour]

I’m only voting green because I refuse to not vote and Trump is just not great but slightly better than Biden.

And my question is, how does he advance the interests of the Green party or their voters further than Biden does?

[Thermodolia]

You really have no idea what I want

We do because you've spent a lot of the time since Sanders called it quits talking about how great your authoritarian socialist state born through accelerationist means would be.

You haven’t been around me a lot if you think I just started this because Sanders called it quits. Do you really think I went accelerationist because sanders dropped out? Lol. Dude I’ve been an accelerationist since 2018. I was the one who wanted a mass strike and near total collapse of the economy during the shutdown.

If you think I went accelerationist because sanders dropped out then you really need to look in a mirror when you call people naïve

Ironically, you have no fucking clue what I want, and I intend to keep it that way because some of the guesses are entertaining. Yours weren't though.

No I’m pretty sure I know what you want and it would be utterly hell on earth to me

[Thermodolia]

I’m only voting green because I refuse to not vote and Trump is just not great but slightly better than Biden.

And my question is, how does he advance the interests of the Green party or their voters further than Biden does?

I don’t give a shit about the green party’s interests. All I care about is advancing my own

[New haven america]

We do because you've spent a lot of the time since Sanders called it quits talking about how great your authoritarian socialist state born through accelerationist means would be.

1. You haven’t been around me a lot if you think I just started this because Sanders called it quits. Do you really think I went accelerationist because sanders dropped out? Lol. Dude I’ve been an accelerationist since 2018. I was the one who wanted a mass strike and near total collapse of the economy during the shutdown.

If you think I went accelerationist because sanders dropped out then you really need to look in a mirror when you call people naïve

Ironically, you have no fucking clue what I want, and I intend to keep it that way because some of the guesses are entertaining. Yours weren't though.

2. No I’m pretty sure I know what you want and it would be utterly hell on earth to me

1. No, but you've become much more vocal about it since.
2. Then what is it I want?

[Glamour]

And my question is, how does he advance the interests of the Green party or their voters further than Biden does?

I don’t give a shit about the green party’s interests. All I care about is advancing my own

You haven't answered my question, but I have another one instead.

What are your interests? How do you serve them by voting for the Green Party, if your interests are not synonymous with theirs? If you prefer Trump to Biden and you don't give a shit about the Green Party, why not just vote Republican? You are confused.

[Thermodolia]

1. You haven’t been around me a lot if you think I just started this because Sanders called it quits. Do you really think I went accelerationist because sanders dropped out? Lol. Dude I’ve been an accelerationist since 2018. I was the one who wanted a mass strike and near total collapse of the economy during the shutdown.

If you think I went accelerationist because sanders dropped out then you really need to look in a mirror when you call people naïve


2. No I’m pretty sure I know what you want and it would be utterly hell on earth to me

1. No, but you've become much more vocal about it since.

That’s just because it’s an election season and I’m bored half the time.

2. Then what is it I want?

Pretty much everything in the left libertarian section

[New haven america]

1. No, but you've become much more vocal about it since.

1. That’s just because it’s an election season and I’m bored half the time.

2. Then what is it I want?

2. Pretty much everything in the left libertarian section

1. But that doesn't change my claim that it's been a lot of what you've been talking about since Sanders called it, does it?
2. And would you care to explain to the class what that entails? I'm personally super interested.

[Thermodolia]

I don’t give a shit about the green party’s interests. All I care about is advancing my own

You haven't answered my question, but I have another one instead.

What are your interests? How do you serve them by voting for the Green Party, if your interests are not synonymous with theirs? If you prefer Trump to Biden and you don't give a shit about the Green Party, why not just vote Republican? You are confused.

I prefer Trumps foreign policy and his economic protectionism but I don’t like him as a person because I think he’s an idiot more focused on himself than the nation.

My interests are establishing a National Syndicalist State in the USA. I’m just voting green because I refuse to not vote and I won’t vote Trump

[Thermodolia]

1. That’s just because it’s an election season and I’m bored half the time.

2. Pretty much everything in the left libertarian section

1. But that doesn't change my claim that it's been a lot of what you've been talking about since Sanders called it, does it?

Yes it does change it because I’m talking about it in Election threads and banging on about how bad the democrats are. You just happen to frequent the same threads. So you see it and assume I’ve been posting more about it when really it hasn’t changed.

2. And would you care to explain to the class what that entails? I'm personally super interested.

A lot of socially liberal woke garbage

[Glamour]

You haven't answered my question, but I have another one instead.

What are your interests? How do you serve them by voting for the Green Party, if your interests are not synonymous with theirs? If you prefer Trump to Biden and you don't give a shit about the Green Party, why not just vote Republican? You are confused.

I prefer Trumps foreign policy and his economic protectionism but I don’t like him as a person because I think he’s an idiot more focused on himself than the nation.

My interests are establishing a National Syndicalist State in the USA. I’m just voting green because I refuse to not vote and I won’t vote Trump

Well, as I have already said, I believe in trade nationalism, and I think you will find if you read my signature that we are both libertarians.

But the Green Party is a leftist party. If you prefer Trump to Biden, and don't give a shit about the Green Party, why vote at all, if you don't want to vote for Trump? Or why not vote for Biden? Is it because you believe that Biden is not leftist enough for you to vote for, because he is a liberal?

You have two choices. An authoritarian right-wing state that gutted the EPA and filled the "swamp" with oil executives, or Biden, who will go back to the days of Obama. Neither are great, I agree, but one is clearly better than the other, if you are a leftist. If you vote for the Green Party but don't give a shit about the Green Party, then I have to wonder why you would even bother to do so.

[Cisairse]

I am saying that a political candidate advocating for something that is plainly insane makes them, in my view, a meme candidate.

You have fabricated a quotation by me. I did not say "When I said "Williamson was a meme candidate," I was referring to her merits as a presidential candidate."

I said, this is not about the merits of Williamson as a presidential candidate, because she is an author and is quite happy being an author.

If that is what you have to resort to then I have nothing further to add.

But the point is that Donald Trump was a meme candidate and he won, and a lot of things he said were interpreted, subjectively, as insane, by people who didn't like him. The media attempted to undermine him and they did the same to Marianne Williamson. I don't believe it was right in either case, but you clearly believe that it is right for the media to undermine candidates that you don't like.

By contrast, Joe Biden says things that are actually insane.

The broken quote was my bad for typo'ing a [ instead of a ] when I tried to add in the quote tag. I've fixed it now.

[New haven america]

1. But that doesn't change my claim that it's been a lot of what you've been talking about since Sanders called it, does it?

Yes it does change it because I’m talking about it in Election threads and banging on about how bad the democrats are. You just happen to frequent the same threads. So you see it and assume I’ve been posting more about it when really it hasn’t changed.

2. And would you care to explain to the class what that entails? I'm personally super interested.

1. A lot of socially liberal woke garbage

1. Would you please provide specifics?

[Thermodolia]

I prefer Trumps foreign policy and his economic protectionism but I don’t like him as a person because I think he’s an idiot more focused on himself than the nation.

My interests are establishing a National Syndicalist State in the USA. I’m just voting green because I refuse to not vote and I won’t vote Trump

Well, as I have already said, I believe in trade nationalism, and I think you will find if you read my signature that we are both libertarians.

I’m not a libertarian though. Far from it. I’m an authoritarian, one who thinks Tito is awesome, Primo de Rivera is great, and Sorel is based.

But the Green Party is a leftist party. If you prefer Trump to Biden, and don't give a shit about the Green Party, why vote at all, if you don't want to vote for Trump? Or why not vote for Biden? Is it because you believe that Biden is not leftist enough for you to vote for, because he is a liberal?

I refuse to not vote out of principle. I will always vote in very election I can.

And yes Biden is way wya too much of a liberal.

You have two choices. An authoritarian right-wing state that gutted the EPA and filled the "swamp" with oil executives, or Biden, who will go back to the days of Obama. Neither are great, I agree, but one is clearly better than the other, if you are a leftist. If you vote for the Green Party but don't give a shit about the Green Party, then I have to wonder why you would even bother to do so.

As I explained above I refuse to not vote out of principle and I won’t vote for an idiot or a senile liberal

[Glamour]

1. Good for you~
2. You want something that's never going to happen, and that's called naivety.
3. This right here is called "Hypocrisy."
4. Apparently it's only bad when it affects you.

You really have no idea what I want