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[ABANDONED] Aboriginal Reconciliation

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Zentata
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[ABANDONED] Aboriginal Reconciliation

Postby Zentata » Fri May 22, 2020 9:55 am

The General Assembly,

Shocked, that certain nations have abused the aboriginal people who were the original inhabitants of said nation, hereby declares that:

a) Aboriginal People refers to the culture/group of people of the same specie who existed before the current majority population.

b) Reconciliation means making amends and righting the wrongs committed by former generations against the aboriginal peoples of said nations.

Hereby Creates a World Assembly Reconciliation Board (hereby referred to as the WARB), that will work to distribute World Assembly funds to nations where they are needed to support reconciliation measures, examine the history of nations to see if they have mistreated Aboriginal peoples in the past, and is also tasked with ensuring that the World Assembly members comply with the following guidelines:

1. All World Assembly nations that have an aboriginal population must ensure the safety, mental health, and general well being of that population remains equal to that of the rest of the nation's citizens.

2. Education shall take place about the aboriginal peoples in the schools of said nations, at an appropriate age level for proper comprehension.

3. Aboriginal peoples must be given enough space to practice their traditions.


The General Assembly,

Shocked, that certain nations have abused the aboriginal people who were the original inhabitants of said nation, hereby declares that:

a) Aboriginal People/Person means a person inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists

b) Reconciliation means making amends and righting the wrongs committed by former generations against the aboriginal peoples of said nations.

Hereby Creates a World Assembly Reconciliation Board (hereby referred to as the WARB), that will work to distribute World Assembly funds to nations where they are needed to support reconciliation measures, examine the history of nations to see if they have mistreated Aboriginal peoples in the past, and is also tasked with ensuring that the World Assembly members comply with the following guidelines:

1. All World Assembly nations that have an aboriginal population must ensure the safety, mental health, and general well being of that population remains equal to that of the rest of the nation's citizens.

2. Should said nations be determined by the WARB to have mistreated their aboriginal populations in the past, they must pay what the leaders of the Aboriginal peoples and the WARB determine to be a sufficient reparations fee.

3. Education shall take place about the aboriginal peoples in the schools of said nations, at an appropriate age level for proper comprehension.

4. Aboriginal peoples must be given enough space to practice their traditions.
Last edited by Zentata on Wed May 27, 2020 11:41 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Fri May 22, 2020 10:36 am

“What is the planned category and strength of this proposal? Also, from a political standpoint, I can’t see your reparations clause being particularly popular. Why should the Kenmorian government pay money because people who are no longer alive committed atrocities against other people who are no longer alive, to people who are generations away from these events?”

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Zentata
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Postby Zentata » Fri May 22, 2020 11:14 am

OOC: Thanks! Also, I can't really think of one, although Civil Rights, Strong might be the best choice. And yeah, I might remove the reparations clause.
Last edited by Zentata on Fri May 22, 2020 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ostrovskiy
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Postby Ostrovskiy » Fri May 22, 2020 11:53 am

from the "earliest time"? what if we are all descendants of the early people. How early does earliest times have to be? Otherwise, i like it. :)

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Zentata
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Postby Zentata » Fri May 22, 2020 11:57 am

Ostrovskiy wrote:from the "earliest time"? what if we are all descendants of the early people. How early does earliest times have to be? Otherwise, i like it. :)


Perhaps simply making it "the first inhabitants of the land"?
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Postby Grays Harbor » Fri May 22, 2020 12:24 pm

OOC: By this reasoning the Normans will owe the Danes and Anglo-Saxons who in turn will owe the Celts (modern day Welsh and Cornish) in the UK. The Normans also owe the Picts/Scots and Irish. In France, the Franks and other Germanic tribe descendants will owe the Gauls. Shall we have Italy pay for all of Europe and North Africa, as they are the successor state of the Roman Empire? Hell, get down to it everybody everywhere will owe somebody since all of human history has been one of migration/conquest of some sort or another.
Not everything has been dastardly European colonialists exploiting the poor natives in the last couple hundred years.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Fri May 22, 2020 5:48 pm

Zentata wrote: a) Aboriginal People/Person means a person inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists

OOC: In addition to what was already said, this definition would seem to only apply to someone who's lived for thousands of years, as it specifies a single person.

Zentata wrote:Perhaps simply making it "the first inhabitants of the land"?

In that case in RL Homo sapiens sapiens would not count as aboriginals anywhere except the Americas (and maybe Australia, though that's debatable). Other human species (though now extinct) got everywhere else first.
Last edited by Araraukar on Fri May 22, 2020 5:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Sat May 23, 2020 6:24 am

“Against! Ambassador we are the aboriginal and original inhabitants of Thermodolia. What are we supposed to do pay ourselves?

If you want reparations then maybe you can do that yourself and not force the rest of the WA pay for your mistakes!”
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Ostrovskiy
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Postby Ostrovskiy » Sat May 23, 2020 11:56 am

Araraukar wrote:
Zentata wrote: a) Aboriginal People/Person means a person inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists

OOC: In addition to what was already said, this definition would seem to only apply to someone who's lived for thousands of years, as it specifies a single person.

Zentata wrote:Perhaps simply making it "the first inhabitants of the land"?

In that case in RL Homo sapiens sapiens would not count as aboriginals anywhere except the Americas (and maybe Australia, though that's debatable). Other human species (though now extinct) got everywhere else first.

fair point. Why and how should ostrovskiy pay Neanderthals, or who knows else?

>:( :eyebrow:

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Zentata
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Postby Zentata » Sun May 24, 2020 7:37 am

I've made some changes, but I don't know if the definition is really much better.
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McMasterdonia
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Postby McMasterdonia » Sun May 24, 2020 10:56 pm

Zentata,

This is a good start and I understand what you are trying to achieve with this, but it requires a fair bit of work still. I think with respect to the definition, you need to clarify what makes the group distinctly aboriginal. A better term to use may be "indigenous". There you could refer to the qualities that may lead an individual to be considered indigenous. This should also reflect that "indigenous" or "aboriginal" is referring to populations that are distinct from the "dominant" society in which they continue to reside. Some other issues that are relevant to consider here, if you go the broader indigenous route, that any such definition should consider that:

  1. Identification as an indigenous person/people both at an individual level and at the community level (therefore to be Indigenous one must also be accepted by that community as indigenous) is a requirement;
  2. There should be a strong link to a particular territory, relevant resources, and the environment;
  3. Often some form of distinct social/economic/political systems that are still in place;
  4. Languages and cultures/beliefs; and
  5. Desire to maintain their social beliefs/cultural traditions.

Then the establishment of the reconciliation board could be designed to meet the above priorities. Maintaining social beliefs, cultural traditions, languages, etc. As well as providing for the general health and safety requirements that you outlined in your draft.

If you are to go down that route, then you'd want to consider previous failings: viewtopic.php?p=25513053#p25513053 which was repealed by this: viewtopic.php?p=25513115#p25513115

Good luck!

Grays Harbor wrote:OOC: By this reasoning the Normans will owe the Danes and Anglo-Saxons who in turn will owe the Celts (modern day Welsh and Cornish) in the UK. The Normans also owe the Picts/Scots and Irish. In France, the Franks and other Germanic tribe descendants will owe the Gauls. Shall we have Italy pay for all of Europe and North Africa, as they are the successor state of the Roman Empire? Hell, get down to it everybody everywhere will owe somebody since all of human history has been one of migration/conquest of some sort or another.
Not everything has been dastardly European colonialists exploiting the poor natives in the last couple hundred years.
NS =/= Earth or USA or British, French, or Spanish Empires.
I dare say, the vast majority of NS nations will claim to be the original inhabitants. I know my nation is that way, for example.

OOC: I would point out that this is the precise argument that people make IRL against paying reparations to indigenous people, including aboriginal Australians, native Americans, African Americans and so on. It is a pretty fallacious argument and is generally made to prevent any kind of repatriations being made at all. In the context of NationStates, if someone wants to claim they are original inhabitants then there is nothing to stop that. I don't think that necessarily means that the resolution or the topic is unworthy of pursuing.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon May 25, 2020 2:32 pm

OOC post.

Zentata wrote:Shocked, that certain nations have abused the aboriginal people who were the original inhabitants of said nation,

Given that the WA has a resolution in place that gives genocide a very wide definition and then bans it, as well as having anti-discrimination resolutions, and various rights and aspects of indigenous people (like, say, sustainable hunting and religious systems) being protected by other resolutions, you need to specify if you mean stuff that happened before the WA resolutions came into effect (or the nation joined the WA, whichever happened later), and if so, why should the current nation care what happened in the occasionally very distant past? Especially if the current nation didn't exist back then. As an IC example, the modern Araraukar emerged from a fusion of three nations after the three fought a horrible three-way war in which many atrocities happened based on nationality. The modern nation of Araraukar had nothing to do with those century-or-two-old atrocities, and as its population largely consists of the survivors of the three-way war, it has been doing everything it can to make people think of each other as Araraukarians, rather than whatever kingdom or empire their ancestors were from. You're going to need VERY good preamble arguments for why a nation that didn't exist when the atrocities were committed, should be held accountable for them. Not just to convince me but also the voters.

a) Aboriginal People refers to the culture/group of people of the same species who existed before the current majority population.

...and what if the aborigines are the current majority population? Do they need to pay themselves for something some minority ruling class did?

b) Reconciliation means making amends and righting the wrongs committed by former generations against the aboriginal peoples of said nations.

You don't need to define words when you use them in the dictionary definition way. Since you don't actually define how "making amends and righting the wrongs" actually happens, you don't need to define it.

Hereby Creates a World Assembly Reconciliation Board (hereby referred to as the WARB), that will work to distribute World Assembly funds to nations where they are needed to support reconciliation measures,

No. Now you would be making ALL WA nations pay for the past sins of a handful of them. Where's the justice in THAT???

examine the history of nations to see if they have mistreated Aboriginal peoples in the past,

HUUUUUGE money drain for no practical use whatsoever. You could just have aboriginal interest groups apply, providing evidence, then give the nation in question a chance to reply and show what they have already done as reparations, and only have the committee do something if they feel the nation's efforts haven't been enough.

Not all indigenous people, whose rights were kicked in the teeth in the past, are still effectively second-class citizens even in RL. They might even take offence at some international bureaucratic nerds (the committee) coming around and going "oh you poor innocent victims, let us coddle you because you can't take care of yourselves".

and is also tasked with ensuring that the World Assembly members comply with the following guidelines:

Instead of doing this, you should have the WA (aka the proposal itself, not a committee) list guidelines for nations to follow. The committee would then only work to decide if a complaint from an aborigine interest group is valid or not. There are other resolutions in place with which the WA as a whole can try to enforce any resolution. (I say "try", because it's now actually possible to roleplay noncompliance in a credible way, thanks to said resolutions existing.) This proposal's committee basically jumping up and down and screaming at nations that they must do as the committee says, is not going to actually force the nations to pay attention. Do you understand the difference? Give the following mandates to the WA nations directly, not through a committee.

1. All World Assembly nations that have an aboriginal population must ensure the safety, mental health, and general well being of that population remains equal to that of the rest of the nation's citizens.

By waving a magic wand? People, living creatures, do not suddenly change their mood or health because bureaucracy so demands. It is entirely possible to, for example, drink yourself to death even if you were well-off and had access to free healthcare and all the help imaginable. If you decide to not ask for help, what can society do? You can't be locked up for your own good, in most civilized nations, even if it really was for your own good, and self-harm and even suicide have been decriminalized by the WA already. The most a nation can lawfully do is provide as good support system to all its citizens, which it is already required to do according to several pre-existing resolutions.

2. Education shall take place about the aboriginal peoples in the schools of said nations, at an appropriate age level for proper comprehension.

What does this do? I mean, just saying "education" could equal "propaganda about aborigines being lazy and stupid and thus deserving to be "taken care of" by the master race" or whatever offensive wording you want to replace that with. Also, what "said nations"?

3. Aboriginal peoples must be given enough space to practice their traditions.

Such as? Are we talking about living off the land, not going to the schools where they are taught about, and withholding proper shelter, food and healthcare from their children, because that's how their ancestors lived too? There are many resolutions in place that WA nations can't let even aborigines break, such as hunting endangered animals in an unsustainable way, or sacrificing people to a funny-looking rock that's totally infested with spirits. Or indeed putting children in situations where they'd be worse off than the non-aborigines' kid. Given your clause 1, this is even stranger a requirement.

Have you read any of the existing resolutions that touch on cultural rights?
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Mon May 25, 2020 2:43 pm

"I must wonder how my own nation would interact with this proposal. The entirety of the Morovian population is descended from native tribes, but few traditions remain due to the rigorous ethnic cleansing traditions installed by the brutal dictator, Renhaven Muri I. During this ethnic cleansing, the population became mostly homogenous culturally, and while history is taught in Morovian schools, oftentimes some minority tribes are excluded from the education due to being largely insignificant historically."

"Essentially, how do you feel that this proposal will interact with tribally-descended nations?"

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Postby Potted Plants United » Mon May 25, 2020 4:28 pm

"This seems to currently allow suppression of indigenous populations as long as they are of a different sapient species," the hivemind's creature spoke. "It might not be a concern in the author's nation or homeplanet, but that is certainly not the case everywhere in the World Assembly nations. Also, what happens in cases where the indigenous people no longer exist in the nation - not because they were destroyed, but rather because they left to escape oppression or war or at the time otherwise dangerous environment, and have settled down in another nation?"
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue May 26, 2020 3:59 pm

How are we supposed to know who were the first inhabitants of the land. For all we know, there could have been a group of peoples that the Indigenous Persons of Country XYZ wiped out. (This does not refer to any real countries, this refers to hyperthetical countries). How do we know that Indigenous Persons didn't wipe out any tribes prior to their arrival? Also, what about uncontacted tribes?
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The Calabash Protectorate
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Postby The Calabash Protectorate » Wed May 27, 2020 1:23 am

Greetings esteemed fellow WA nations,

We would like to take this opportunity to weigh in on this issue.

To define an aboriginal or indigenous people is a difficult task and we would offer the following as food for thought.

As all peoples were at one stage in their past nomadic hunter gatherers, all peoples could lay claim to any section of land from the distant past.

It would be best to define an aboriginal or indigenous people as one who forewent the nomadic or hunter-gatherer lifestyle at some stage in the development of their civilisation and settled or claimed an area of land.
To claim land a people would have to have a) buried their deceased, b) erected religious structures, c) erected permanent buildings for trade or settlement or c) cultivated the land for farming or animal husbandry.

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Zentata
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Postby Zentata » Wed May 27, 2020 11:24 am

Well, I didn't expect this to be so full of problems. I don't want to essentially overhaul the entire proposal, because I simply don't have the time or effort to do such a thing. In other words, I'm dropping it. This was probably too sensitive/complex of a subject for a mere beginner to take on, so I won't. Nevertheless, I'll be sure to remember all the advice and lessons I've learned here, and will be keeping my mind open for a better proposal idea. I'm sorry to have wasted your time, and thank you.
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Wed May 27, 2020 11:40 am

Zentata wrote:Well, I didn't expect this to be so full of problems. I don't want to essentially overhaul the entire proposal, because I simply don't have the time or effort to do such a thing. In other words, I'm dropping it. This was probably too sensitive/complex of a subject for a mere beginner to take on, so I won't. Nevertheless, I'll be sure to remember all the advice and lessons I've learned here, and will be keeping my mind open for a better proposal idea. I'm sorry to have wasted your time, and thank you.

(OOC: If you are abandoning the proposal, then the convention is to change the tag from [DRAFT] to [ABANDONED], to signify this. Your draft was well-written, so I hope that you are able to return at some point with a different idea, or contributions to other proposals.)
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Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
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Zentata
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Postby Zentata » Wed May 27, 2020 11:41 am

Kenmoria wrote:
Zentata wrote:Well, I didn't expect this to be so full of problems. I don't want to essentially overhaul the entire proposal, because I simply don't have the time or effort to do such a thing. In other words, I'm dropping it. This was probably too sensitive/complex of a subject for a mere beginner to take on, so I won't. Nevertheless, I'll be sure to remember all the advice and lessons I've learned here, and will be keeping my mind open for a better proposal idea. I'm sorry to have wasted your time, and thank you.

(OOC: If you are abandoning the proposal, then the convention is to change the tag from [DRAFT] to [ABANDONED], to signify this. Your draft was well-written, so I hope that you are able to return at some point with a different idea, or contributions to other proposals.)



OOC: Sorry about that, and thanks!
Go Zylan Zingers!! Support them with an upvote here https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1319976. LET"S GO ZINGERS LET'S GO!!!
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We are because we am.- Terry Pratchett
Also, I got to the house but found a mouse. Goodbye, adios, au revoir.


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