Are we senselessly abandoning tradition? A nostalgia debate.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

snip

Opinions will obviously vary on these matters from person to person. The first claim I made in your quote was by personal experience and what I've seen. Based on my age and location, I've clearly not seen a lot, I'll give you that much.

There are people who believe in civil unions, marriage, celibacy, or maybe even a hypothetical space orgy. If they do not press their views on others (through means of acting against them), why should there be animosity towards this "other side of the coin".

I personally believe that we should all be the better people and ban those words, even for the people entitled to adopt and say them-- for the betterment of us all and so the edgy white supremacists don't have anything to moan about.

[Sadakoyama]

If you think any time in the past was without turmoil, you're woefully naive. And f*ck "tradition".

...merits that aren't common today.

Like what? Ibet most of them didn't even exist outside nostalgic rose-coloured lenses.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

snip

Opinions will obviously vary on these matters from person to person. The first claim I made in your quote was by personal experience and what I've seen. Based on my age and location, I've clearly not seen a lot, I'll give you that much.

There are people who believe in civil unions, marriage, celibacy, or maybe even a hypothetical space orgy. If they do not press their views on others (through means of acting against them), why should there be animosity towards this "other side of the coin".

I personally believe that we should all be the better people and ban those words, even for the people entitled to adopt and say them-- for the betterment of us all and so the edgy white supremacists don't have anything to moan about.

The problem is that some of those people have used the power of the institutions that cater to their belief systems to attempt at “pressing” their views on others. Is not as simple as you make it. The animosity oftentimes is warranted, or at least very understandable.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

You're a dead person (your entire subspecies is extinct, actually) and you're kind of peer pressuring us to not follow traditions, so...

But must you be so brutal to Ug?!

Because Ug make fire.

No, but seriously. Sensibility lies for me in "does it harm people". If it harms the people, we should change it rather than smash it, save things like blatant supremacy. However, what people don't think about is "does abandoning something relatively harmless or escapeable via opt out hurt those still practicing it?"

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

But must you be so brutal to Ug?!

Because Ug make fire.

No, but seriously. Sensibility lies for me in "does it harm people". If it harms the people, we should change it rather than smash it, save things like blatant supremacy. However, what people don't think about is "does abandoning something relatively harmless or escapeable via opt out hurt those still practicing it?"

There are casualties of thought and practice whenever societies change views. It’s inevitable.

[Cekoviu]

Opinions will obviously vary on these matters from person to person. The first claim I made in your quote was by personal experience and what I've seen. Based on my age and location, I've clearly not seen a lot, I'll give you that much.

A bunch of different religions promote reasonable traditional morality. It is absolutely not just the Mormon church (and often isn't -- take it from someone who lives in Utah and grew up Mormon).

There are people who believe in civil unions, marriage, celibacy, or maybe even a hypothetical space orgy. If they do not press their views on others (through means of acting against them), why should there be animosity towards this "other side of the coin".

If homophobic gay people aren't trying to press their homophobia on other gay people, sure, but that's very rarely the case.

I personally believe that we should all be the better people and ban those words, even for the people entitled to adopt and say them-- for the betterment of us all and so the edgy white supremacists don't have anything to moan about.

It makes it kind of difficult to talk about various words if we can't actually mention the words. It's especially bad for dictionary writers and linguists. Anyway, I don't really see the point. Like, you can totally make hate crime legislation without completely banning specific words.

[Menassa]

Dan Carlin has a line about the Good ole Days that were never really Good... I forget it now... I wish things were like the good ole days when my memory worked.

[New haven america]

Is a tradition bad/has had mostly negative effects or exists to needlessly make something more complicated? Yes?

Then good, it deserves to be gotten rid of.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

...merits that aren't common today.

Like what? Ibet most of them didn't even exist outside nostalgic rose-coloured lenses.

Some of them may not exist beyond those rose-colored lenses, some of them may be chaotically dark. I'd like to reference what Nanatsu said about escapism. Present times blow, we've established that much. We've established that the exponential change has made a lot of people unhappy, and the past has also made a lot of people unhappy. Maybe violent cartoons or the milkman (pointless as he is) are what we need, even if we do not wish to include the negative stigma like having kids now swordfight with sticks on the street or having the milk be watered down so ol' Joe makes a quick buck.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

Dan Carlin has a line about the Good ole Days that were never really Good... I forget it now... I wish things were like the good ole days when my memory worked.

I think it was from Keepin' The Faith by Billy Joel?

The good ol' days weren't always good, tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems

[Giovenith]

The original run of "The Twilight Zone" has an episode called, "A Stop at Willoughby." It follows a business man who is unhappy with life, constantly bullied by at work and at home alike, until while on the train he starts to have visions of a quaint 1880s town called Willoughby, where everyone is treats him kindly. The man tries to tell his wife about it and waxes nostalgia in general about how people these days are so fast-paced, mean, and cold, and how he wishes things could be more like they were back in the past, where people were neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, like in Willoughby. The episode culminates with him deciding to stay in Willoughby, happily planning to join some boys on a fishing trip and attend a local fair, but this vision fades away to us seeing the man dead in the snow. According to the conductor, the man had jumped from the train while mumbling something about a "Willoughby" and was killed instantly, with no one understanding what he meant. His body is then loaded up into a van marked, "Willoughby & Son Funeral."

Consider this episode, made all the way back in the time of black and white TV, and then consider how now-a-days, men often say the same things about the time period that the man of the episode was originally from. People waxing nostalgia about how back in the 1950s and early 60s people were so much more neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, unlike now... then you look at a story from the 50s/60s, of an unhappy and suicidal man waxing nostalgia about how people in the 1880s were so much more neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, unlike now.

The past was not happier. It was not more peaceful, people were not nicer, things were not better. You only think of it that way because you are afraid of the chaos of the present and the past seems inherently orderly because you already know what to expect from it. Humans also tend to airbrush memories as time goes by, forget all the bad bits and magnify the good bits, as a matter of mental wellbeing. But you have to keep that part of yourself in check, because when you try to bring the past back to life, chances are you're going to wind up bringing back more than just the good bits.

If you have the time, I would recommend listening to this talk about the supposed "good old days." It's a cold, splash in the face reminder about what was actually going on "back in the good old days," and how we can find happiness not by clinging to tradition, but by seeking improvement and holding onto things because they are good, not because they are old.

[The Iron Wizards of Blacktower]

Obviously we need to return to Greek tradition and pair my teen self up with a fine knight

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

Is a tradition bad/has had mostly negative effects or exists to needlessly make something more complicated? Yes?

Then good, it deserves to be gotten rid of.

That can be weaponized by fringe atheists to get rid of religion, and can be used by religious fundamentalists to get rid of doubters and push their agenda. This is the problem that I'm referencing, the fact that we evolve and forget and walk over things without batting an eye or considering the merits to [insert ideology or agenda] or the fact that overlooking something harmless in the face of "progression" will still hurt a lot of people. If you hurt 30 people, you committed assault. If you hurt 300, you committed assault.

A good reference/semi-source for this is the Narita Airport struggle. Japanese government evicted an elderly woman from her house and rapidly bought peasant farmland held for generations to construct an airport on the farmland. This obviously caused leftist fringe groups to strike back. The rioting and forts they made was pretty cool, but the airport still suffers from occasional guerrilla attacks to this day.

Does the airport benefit Tokyo? Yes. Was it ruthless and inconsiderate to the people already living there? Incredibly.

[New haven america]

Dan Carlin has a line about the Good ole Days that were never really Good... I forget it now... I wish things were like the good ole days when my memory worked.

People tend to remember the good aspects of the Good ole Days while conveniently ignoring the bad.

This 80's revival trend for example, painting the 80's as a wonderful time of vaporwave and endless childhoods when really it was fraught with economic uncertainty, rampant racism/sexism/homophobia was still the norm, a conservative government in the US was taking the first steps needed to kill the middle class and actively trying to kill its LGBT population with the AIDS crisis, etc...

Or how people nowadays want a return to the Bush Era because of how bad Trump's been, even though Bush nearly economically destroyed the country, started 2 seemingly endless wars, and signed off on the Patriot Act.

[Swiss Empirical]

Yes.

Don't like it? Storm the streets. Or vote. Whichever brings about change sooner.

[South Odreria 2]

Dan Carlin has a line about the Good ole Days that were never really Good... I forget it now... I wish things were like the good ole days when my memory worked.

People tend to remember the good aspects of the Good ole Days while conveniently ignoring the bad.

This 80's revival trend for example, painting the 80's as a wonderful time when really it was fraught with economic uncertainty, rampant racism/sexism/homophobia was still the norm, a conservative government in the US taking the first steps to kill the middle class and actively trying to kill its LGBT population with the AIDS crisis, etc...

Or how people nowadays want a return to the Bush Era because of how bad Trump's been, even though Bush nearly economically destroyed the country, started 2 seemingly endless wars, and signed off on the Patriot Act.

Could you kill my 90s nostalgia as well?

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

The original run of "The Twilight Zone" has an episode called, "A Stop at Willoughby." It follows a business man who is unhappy with life, constantly bullied by at work and at home alike, until while on the train he starts to have visions of a quaint 1880s town called Willoughby, where everyone is treats him kindly. The man tries to tell his wife about it and waxes nostalgia in general about how people these days are so fast-paced, mean, and cold, and how he wishes things could be more like they were back in the past, where people were neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, like in Willoughby. The episode culminates with him deciding to stay in Willoughby, happily planning to join some boys on a fishing trip and attend a local fair, but this vision fades away to us seeing the man dead in the snow. According to the conductor, the man had jumped from the train while mumbling something about a "Willoughby" and was killed instantly, with no one understanding what he meant. His body is then loaded up into a van marked, "Willoughby & Son Funeral."

Consider this episode, made all the way back in the time of black and white TV, and then consider how now-a-days, men often say the same things about the time period that the man of the episode was originally from. People waxing nostalgia about how back in the 1950s and early 60s people were so much more neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, unlike now... then you look at a story from the 50s/60s, of an unhappy and suicidal man waxing nostalgia about how people in the 1880s were so much more neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, unlike now.

The past was not happier. It was not more peaceful, people were not nicer, things were not better. You only think of it that way because you are afraid of the chaos of the present and the past seems inherently orderly because you already know what to expect from it. Humans also tend to airbrush memories as time goes by, forget all the bad bits and magnify the good bits, as a matter of mental wellbeing. But you have to keep that part of yourself in check, because when you try to bring the past back to life, chances are you're going to wind up bringing back more than just the good bits.

If you have the time, I would recommend listening to this talk about the supposed "good old days." It's a cold, splash in the face reminder about what was actually going on "back in the good old days," and how we can find happiness not by clinging to tradition, but by seeking improvement and holding onto things because they are good, not because they are old.

That was wisely said of you. I understand this "have your cake and eat it too" solution of bringing back traditional values but making them inclusive won't prevent everything. One radio station of a godly man, an organist, and an opera singer-- 15 minutes of hymns and prayer, have left me tearfully wanting my own Willoughby. The difference here is that people are now so caught up in abandoning the old, forgetfully trampling on things that are both old and good-- things that I desired in my OP. There are often times discussions about a future with no religion. Despite this future being so advanced and prosperous, the cynical removal of faith and (likely) mental bigotry of anyone remotely spiritual by the somehow intellectual populace serves as a cold reminder to me. Those kinds of dystopias are Willoughby, but in absolute reverse. Meant to fear-monger the future. Orgasmically lusted by the radicals who want to stomp on faith until it dies like a worm, feared by those who are already used to being denounced. George Orwell sometimes hinted at this in 1984, where all feelings were devoted to the Party. No love, no memories-- only patriotism. I concede that this future (grimly relatable to present day in my honest opinion) should be feared, especially by those who feel like nostalgia is evil.

[Sadakoyama]

Like what? Ibet most of them didn't even exist outside nostalgic rose-coloured lenses.

Some of them may not exist beyond those rose-colored lenses, some of them may be chaotically dark. I'd like to reference what Nanatsu said about escapism. Present times blow, we've established that much. We've established that the exponential change has made a lot of people unhappy, and the past has also made a lot of people unhappy. Maybe violent cartoons or the milkman (pointless as he is) are what we need, even if we do not wish to include the negative stigma like having kids now swordfight with sticks on the street or having the milk be watered down so ol' Joe makes a quick buck.

If you read history, nearly everyone thiks their present times blow. For instance; food safety is verifiably exponentially better these days than it was a century ago, whatever your perception of milk quality. As for violent entertainment, as late as the 1920s it was considered good family fun to take the kids to a public lynching of an innocent black man. People complain that entertainment is simultaneously depraved and yet throttled by "PC Culture".

The one shining truth of human experience of their present culture is that our perceptions, for every single one of us, are limited, biased, error-ridden, and incomplete. Change is the only constant. "The world" changed just as rapidly and dramatically for our parents and grandparents as it has for us. My father was born before television, the atom bomb, and his childhood home didn't have indoor plumbing; all things I took for granted.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

Some of them may not exist beyond those rose-colored lenses, some of them may be chaotically dark. I'd like to reference what Nanatsu said about escapism. Present times blow, we've established that much. We've established that the exponential change has made a lot of people unhappy, and the past has also made a lot of people unhappy. Maybe violent cartoons or the milkman (pointless as he is) are what we need, even if we do not wish to include the negative stigma like having kids now swordfight with sticks on the street or having the milk be watered down so ol' Joe makes a quick buck.

If you read history, nearly everyone thiks their present times blow. For instance; food safety is verifiably exponentially better these days than it was a century ago, whatever your perception of milk quality. As for violent entertainment, as late as the 1920s it was considered good family fun to take the kids to a public lynching of an innocent black man. People complain that entertainment is simultaneously depraved and yet throttled by "PC Culture".

The one shining truth of human experience of their present culture is that our perceptions, for every single one of us, are limited, biased, error-ridden, and incomplete. Change is the only constant. "The world" changed just as rapidly and dramatically for our parents and grandparents as it has for us. My father was born before television, the atom bomb, and his childhood home didn't have indoor plumbing; all things I took for granted.

Utopia for one, dystopia for another. Called a bigot for a desire for morality, praised as a hero for defending godly values. Eurasia has always been the enemy, or has it been Eastasia?

[Autumn Wind]

“Kids these days have no respect!” - Every generation ever.

[Neanderthaland]

The original run of "The Twilight Zone" has an episode called, "A Stop at Willoughby." It follows a business man who is unhappy with life, constantly bullied by at work and at home alike, until while on the train he starts to have visions of a quaint 1880s town called Willoughby, where everyone is treats him kindly. The man tries to tell his wife about it and waxes nostalgia in general about how people these days are so fast-paced, mean, and cold, and how he wishes things could be more like they were back in the past, where people were neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, like in Willoughby. The episode culminates with him deciding to stay in Willoughby, happily planning to join some boys on a fishing trip and attend a local fair, but this vision fades away to us seeing the man dead in the snow. According to the conductor, the man had jumped from the train while mumbling something about a "Willoughby" and was killed instantly, with no one understanding what he meant. His body is then loaded up into a van marked, "Willoughby & Son Funeral."

Consider this episode, made all the way back in the time of black and white TV, and then consider how now-a-days, men often say the same things about the time period that the man of the episode was originally from. People waxing nostalgia about how back in the 1950s and early 60s people were so much more neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, unlike now... then you look at a story from the 50s/60s, of an unhappy and suicidal man waxing nostalgia about how people in the 1880s were so much more neighborly, peaceful, and took life slowly, unlike now.

The past was not happier. It was not more peaceful, people were not nicer, things were not better. You only think of it that way because you are afraid of the chaos of the present and the past seems inherently orderly because you already know what to expect from it. Humans also tend to airbrush memories as time goes by, forget all the bad bits and magnify the good bits, as a matter of mental wellbeing. But you have to keep that part of yourself in check, because when you try to bring the past back to life, chances are you're going to wind up bringing back more than just the good bits.

If you have the time, I would recommend listening to this talk about the supposed "good old days." It's a cold, splash in the face reminder about what was actually going on "back in the good old days," and how we can find happiness not by clinging to tradition, but by seeking improvement and holding onto things because they are good, not because they are old.

That was wisely said of you. I understand this "have your cake and eat it too" solution of bringing back traditional values but making them inclusive won't prevent everything. One radio station of a godly man, an organist, and an opera singer-- 15 minutes of hymns and prayer, have left me tearfully wanting my own Willoughby. The difference here is that people are now so caught up in abandoning the old, forgetfully trampling on things that are both old and good-- things that I desired in my OP. There are often times discussions about a future with no religion. Despite this future being so advanced and prosperous, the cynical removal of faith and (likely) mental bigotry of anyone remotely spiritual by the somehow intellectual populace serves as a cold reminder to me. Those kinds of dystopias are Willoughby, but in absolute reverse. Meant to fear-monger the future. Orgasmically lusted by the radicals who want to stomp on faith until it dies like a worm, feared by those who are already used to being denounced. George Orwell sometimes hinted at this in 1984, where all feelings were devoted to the Party. No love, no memories-- only patriotism. I concede that this future (grimly relatable to present day in my honest opinion) should be feared, especially by those who feel like nostalgia is evil.

Nostalgia is not evil. Nostalgia is fine. Nostalgia is why 80s moves are suddenly really popular.

Being delusional is not evil either, but it is very rarely helpful. And usually harmful. And having a rose-colored view of the past, and of reactionaryism, is delusional.

[Geneviev]

I'll be honest, I don't know if some of those problems even exist. Anyway, there were a lot of problems in the 60s and 70s too. People just can't get things right. If there is one change that I am concerned about, it is that religions are being used to control people now. Other than that, progress is a good thing. Without the Internet, I would not be able to do school right now. Tradition isn't always better.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

I'll be honest, I don't know if some of those problems even exist. Anyway, there were a lot of problems in the 60s and 70s too. People just can't get things right. If there is one change that I am concerned about, it is that religions are being used to control people now. Other than that, progress is a good thing. Without the Internet, I would not be able to do school right now. Tradition isn't always better.

At least my AP Bio test is open note now and I can always just open up the other browser for questions.

[Plzen]

There has never been a better time to be alive and no amount of conservatives whining “but what about the tradition~~~” will convince me otherwise.

The people who today use their arbitrary moral judgements and emotional outrage to try and oppose the logical and inevitable results of a socially freer, economically more prosperous, and technologically more advanced society are no different from people who a Century or two ago thought that it was outrageously immoral for women to ride bicycles.

Unless society stops advancing for some reason (nuclear war and climate change both seem like plausible possibilities nowadays), the current generation of moral outrage whiners will go exactly where all the previous generation of moral outrage whiners went; that is to say, since people don’t live forever, them and most people who agree with them will die, and the new generations with newer ideals can move forwards without them.

[Region of Dwipantara]

The past isn't always that good either. I for one loathe the past military dictatorship era where corruption is rampant, obedience culture is enforced, mass murder is praised, people are super superstitious, yes-man attitude gets you going and my grandpa was almost jailed because he fought corruption in a state-owned company. Nope, fuck that.