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2020 US General Election Thread VI: Covid for VP!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How do You Plan to Vote This Year?

At a Polling Place
40
22%
By Mail(If Allowed)
42
23%
Early Voting
6
3%
I Won't Vote
14
8%
I Can't Vote(To Young/Outside the US)
80
44%
 
Total votes : 182

User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58882
Founded: May 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kannap » Thu May 07, 2020 2:56 am

The Andromeda Island Group wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Neither of you have provided any evidence, but feel free to continue your playground piss contest.


Ask the Green Party in Montana if there's evidence. You won't like the answer.


Hey, both main parties are shit. Republicans fear they can't win without gerrymandering and voter suppression, Democrats fear they can't win without shitting on and guilting every third party.

I'm tired of it, both parties bitch and moan and all we get is fuck all.
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Albrenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12609
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Thu May 07, 2020 2:59 am

It doesn't seem terribly controversial to me that left-wing voters would vote for a less fitting left wing party, namely the Democrats, if the third parties were not available. Same for right wing voters and third parties with the Republicans.

Not to say ALL of them would follow that like a hivemind, since I think a large chunk would not vote at all otherwise, and a smaller fraction would for whatever reason vote for the other 'wing' of politics if their particular favoured party didn't win their vote.

User avatar
The Andromeda Island Group
Envoy
 
Posts: 296
Founded: Oct 28, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Andromeda Island Group » Thu May 07, 2020 3:06 am

True Refuge wrote:The capitalization's a bit silly. The point's obvious enough.

And it's not totally baseless to assume that a significant number of right-leaning third party voters have a strong enough distaste for the Dems that they'd have found a lesser of two evils argument (where Trump is the lesser) appealing if third parties had not run any candidates.

You have a point but going all absolute about it lacks nuance.


I will concede that a reasonable person can make an assumption that Trump would have won the popular vote in a two person race.

All I'm saying is that the assumption is no more or less valid than an assumption from someone who disagrees.

This is the real problem with American politics: We've got people who are ignoring facts and useful information who are, instead, relying on their feelings. If Donald Trump wins re-election, he can thank those voters who have abandoned their critical thinking skills and instead insist that their feelings are Gospel.

The Force may work in Star Wars movies, but it's a terrible tool for determining how you vote. It's also an awful way to govern.

User avatar
True Refuge
Senator
 
Posts: 4035
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby True Refuge » Thu May 07, 2020 3:12 am

Albrenia wrote:It doesn't seem terribly controversial to me that left-wing voters would vote for a less fitting left wing party, namely the Democrats, if the third parties were not available. Same for right wing voters and third parties with the Republicans.

Not to say ALL of them would follow that like a hivemind, since I think a large chunk would not vote at all otherwise, and a smaller fraction would for whatever reason vote for the other 'wing' of politics if their particular favoured party didn't win their vote.


The next question being of course whether there were enough third party votes of either leaning in swing states to actually make a difference.
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Blargoblarg
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Posts: 1452
Founded: Sep 06, 2010
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Blargoblarg » Thu May 07, 2020 3:19 am

Kannap wrote:
The Andromeda Island Group wrote:
Ask the Green Party in Montana if there's evidence. You won't like the answer.


Hey, both main parties are shit. Republicans fear they can't win without gerrymandering and voter suppression, Democrats fear they can't win without shitting on and guilting every third party.

I'm tired of it, both parties bitch and moan and all we get is fuck all.

Regardless of which of the two major parties has control of the White House, the rich and the big corporations get richer while everyone else gets screwed over. And I don't trust Biden or Trump to do anywhere close to enough to deal with the problem of climate change, which keeps getting worse. I'd rather vote for someone like Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins or maybe write in Bernie, because even though they probably won't win at least I'll be voting for someone who supports my values.
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User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44413
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu May 07, 2020 3:22 am

True Refuge wrote:
Albrenia wrote:It doesn't seem terribly controversial to me that left-wing voters would vote for a less fitting left wing party, namely the Democrats, if the third parties were not available. Same for right wing voters and third parties with the Republicans.

Not to say ALL of them would follow that like a hivemind, since I think a large chunk would not vote at all otherwise, and a smaller fraction would for whatever reason vote for the other 'wing' of politics if their particular favoured party didn't win their vote.


The next question being of course whether there were enough third party votes of either leaning in swing states to actually make a difference.


There certainly were for the GOP at least. MN and NH very plausibly could have flipped red without third parties.

MN is one I'm actually shocked by, looking into it Clinton only won by 45,000 votes. I don't remember it being that close.
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User avatar
Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58882
Founded: May 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kannap » Thu May 07, 2020 3:52 am

The Andromeda Island Group wrote:
True Refuge wrote:The capitalization's a bit silly. The point's obvious enough.

And it's not totally baseless to assume that a significant number of right-leaning third party voters have a strong enough distaste for the Dems that they'd have found a lesser of two evils argument (where Trump is the lesser) appealing if third parties had not run any candidates.

You have a point but going all absolute about it lacks nuance.


I will concede that a reasonable person can make an assumption that Trump would have won the popular vote in a two person race.

All I'm saying is that the assumption is no more or less valid than an assumption from someone who disagrees.

This is the real problem with American politics: We've got people who are ignoring facts and useful information who are, instead, relying on their feelings. If Donald Trump wins re-election, he can thank those voters who have abandoned their critical thinking skills and instead insist that their feelings are Gospel.

The Force may work in Star Wars movies, but it's a terrible tool for determining how you vote. It's also an awful way to govern.


If Dems want people to vote for them, they need to pick a candidate who people will vote for. I hope Trump loses, I hope the Dems know what they're doing, but I'm not voting for Biden.
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Cameroi
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15600
Founded: Dec 24, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Cameroi » Thu May 07, 2020 4:05 am

several things are almost predictable, like who ever gets the most air time tends to be who gets elected, even no matter how negative that air time might be.
i wish media would realize this and choose to allocate its coverage accordingly.
and according to that theory of course, the plague does seem to be our next executive branch in the u.s.
as if our current executive branch isn't a plague already.

nominees seldom pick anyone expected, anyone from among the field they competed against.
no real good reason for this that i known of.
occasionally one of the ones who dropped out early will be picked.
current political trends, it will be, or there is a majority hoping for, it will be a woman, but not any of the one's i or anyone else is likely to have expected or even heard of.
i know i'd like it to be warren, but i think biden's already mentioned somone who fits the above description, a name i don't remember and know nothing about.
i sure hope he picks people, like warren for the economy, who, unlike the present chrony system, actually know something about what they're picked for.
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"economic freedom" is "the cake"
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User avatar
Zurkerx
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 7445
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Thu May 07, 2020 5:49 am

Kannap wrote:
The Andromeda Island Group wrote:
I will concede that a reasonable person can make an assumption that Trump would have won the popular vote in a two person race.

All I'm saying is that the assumption is no more or less valid than an assumption from someone who disagrees.

This is the real problem with American politics: We've got people who are ignoring facts and useful information who are, instead, relying on their feelings. If Donald Trump wins re-election, he can thank those voters who have abandoned their critical thinking skills and instead insist that their feelings are Gospel.

The Force may work in Star Wars movies, but it's a terrible tool for determining how you vote. It's also an awful way to govern.


If Dems want people to vote for them, they need to pick a candidate who people will vote for. I hope Trump loses, I hope the Dems know what they're doing, but I'm not voting for Biden.


Ultimately, people are more or less going to be voting for Biden's VP given his age. I suspect he has this in mind and will likely pick someone that mimics "the general public", which in that case, Klobuchar would seemingly be that choice with experience tied to her. But Biden has also stated he wants the ticket to look like "America" so I won't be surprised if he picks a minority like Duckworth, Grisham, and sighs, Harris... But! I do have confidence he will not pick the latter. After all, it would be making the same mistakes as McCain did: picking Palin.

As to the third party stuff, it certainly hurt Trump though if I recall, Johnson was doing a 60-40 split: 60% to Trump; 40% Clinton while 90% of Stein voters would have backed Clinton. But we should note that some would have stayed; I'm thinking a third from these groups respectively. I'll also note that Clinton was an absolute atrocious candidate: she was arrogant, lack a clear message, and like others, wrote off Trump's chances of winning and thus, felt they didn't need to vote. All in told, this election would have been close in my view popular vote wise.
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Aureumterra
Negotiator
 
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Founded: Oct 25, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Aureumterra » Thu May 07, 2020 5:51 am

Image


You have to wonder how the New York Times went from a respected newspaper to this
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 139899
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Thu May 07, 2020 6:16 am

Aureumterra wrote:

You have to wonder how the New York Times went from a respected newspaper to this

What's wrong with the New York Times publishing an opinion piece?
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41910
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Thu May 07, 2020 6:20 am

Blargoblarg wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Hey, both main parties are shit. Republicans fear they can't win without gerrymandering and voter suppression, Democrats fear they can't win without shitting on and guilting every third party.

I'm tired of it, both parties bitch and moan and all we get is fuck all.

Regardless of which of the two major parties has control of the White House, the rich and the big corporations get richer while everyone else gets screwed over. And I don't trust Biden or Trump to do anywhere close to enough to deal with the problem of climate change, which keeps getting worse. I'd rather vote for someone like Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins or maybe write in Bernie, because even though they probably won't win at least I'll be voting for someone who supports my values.

Enjoy Trump picking RBG’s replacement. She just had another health scare

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 139899
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Thu May 07, 2020 6:22 am

San Lumen wrote:
Blargoblarg wrote:Regardless of which of the two major parties has control of the White House, the rich and the big corporations get richer while everyone else gets screwed over. And I don't trust Biden or Trump to do anywhere close to enough to deal with the problem of climate change, which keeps getting worse. I'd rather vote for someone like Green Party candidate Howie Hawkins or maybe write in Bernie, because even though they probably won't win at least I'll be voting for someone who supports my values.

Enjoy Trump picking RBG’s replacement. She just had another health scare

Have you considered that it's actually an enormous failure that you rely so desperately on one old woman?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Coughing Etiquette That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41910
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Thu May 07, 2020 6:38 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Enjoy Trump picking RBG’s replacement. She just had another health scare

Have you considered that it's actually an enormous failure that you rely so desperately on one old woman?

I don’t want that amazing woman replaced by a right wing nut job

User avatar
Poskistan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 20
Founded: Dec 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Poskistan » Thu May 07, 2020 6:41 am

Kannap wrote:
The Andromeda Island Group wrote:
I will concede that a reasonable person can make an assumption that Trump would have won the popular vote in a two person race.

All I'm saying is that the assumption is no more or less valid than an assumption from someone who disagrees.

This is the real problem with American politics: We've got people who are ignoring facts and useful information who are, instead, relying on their feelings. If Donald Trump wins re-election, he can thank those voters who have abandoned their critical thinking skills and instead insist that their feelings are Gospel.

The Force may work in Star Wars movies, but it's a terrible tool for determining how you vote. It's also an awful way to govern.


If Dems want people to vote for them, they need to pick a candidate who people will vote for. I hope Trump loses, I hope the Dems know what they're doing, but I'm not voting for Biden.

Not voting for Biden for same reason. I want change in the political system and it won’t happen with Biden. Just going to sit around for 4 years or die before.
I’m boring and dry.
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San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41910
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Thu May 07, 2020 6:43 am

Poskistan wrote:
Kannap wrote:
If Dems want people to vote for them, they need to pick a candidate who people will vote for. I hope Trump loses, I hope the Dems know what they're doing, but I'm not voting for Biden.

Not voting for Biden for same reason. I want change in the political system and it won’t happen with Biden. Just going to sit around for 4 years or die before.

Enjoy Trumps second term and a right wing Supreme Court for the next fifty years striking down all progressive legislation

User avatar
Poskistan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 20
Founded: Dec 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Poskistan » Thu May 07, 2020 6:46 am

San Lumen wrote:
Poskistan wrote:Not voting for Biden for same reason. I want change in the political system and it won’t happen with Biden. Just going to sit around for 4 years or die before.

Enjoy Trumps second term and a right wing Supreme Court for the next fifty years striking down all progressive legislation

I seem to remember a Trump appointed justice being the swing vote they saved planned parenthood?
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 139899
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Thu May 07, 2020 6:48 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Have you considered that it's actually an enormous failure that you rely so desperately on one old woman?

I don’t want that amazing woman replaced by a right wing nut job

Doesn't really address my post.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Coughing Etiquette That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Aureumterra
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7471
Founded: Oct 25, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Aureumterra » Thu May 07, 2020 6:54 am

Poskistan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Enjoy Trumps second term and a right wing Supreme Court for the next fifty years striking down all progressive legislation

I seem to remember a Trump appointed justice being the swing vote they saved planned parenthood?

Kavanaugh is a fake conservative
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Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58882
Founded: May 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Kannap » Thu May 07, 2020 7:19 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I don’t want that amazing woman replaced by a right wing nut job

Doesn't really address my post.


The survival of American democracy somehow relying solely on a feeble woman in her 80s isn't even the silliest part of American democracy
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South Odreria 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby South Odreria 2 » Thu May 07, 2020 7:25 am

That RBG didn't retire under Obama shows she's a republican sleeper agent anyway.
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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13986
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Thu May 07, 2020 7:27 am

South Odreria 2 wrote:That RBG didn't retire under Obama shows she's a republican sleeper agent anyway.

Also, Ukraine was the real interference in the 2016 election. *nod*
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South Odreria 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2655
Founded: Aug 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby South Odreria 2 » Thu May 07, 2020 7:33 am

Gormwood wrote:
South Odreria 2 wrote:That RBG didn't retire under Obama shows she's a republican sleeper agent anyway.

Also, Ukraine was the real interference in the 2016 election. *nod*

In point of fact it was Israel.
Valrifell wrote:
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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16020
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Thu May 07, 2020 7:44 am

Ifreann wrote:
Aureumterra wrote:

You have to wonder how the New York Times went from a respected newspaper to this

What's wrong with the New York Times publishing an opinion piece?

They can do as they like, but the opinion is monstrous.
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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13986
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Thu May 07, 2020 7:48 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What's wrong with the New York Times publishing an opinion piece?

They can do as they like, but the opinion is monstrous.

Gee, it's like they invented an opinion column for a reason. And that's rich, an ancap calling someone's opinion monstrous.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
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