Anarchy in Rome, A Sack Amidst Plague [MT-PMT, CLOSED, OOC]

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

An OOC thread was requested, so here you go!

Some context:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=482082

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=483631

I'll repost my rules from the IC thread to be safe, haha.

This will be a RP centered on the chaos following the events therein, and I not wasnt immediate declarations of war or other such nonsense. For some context for RPers, I will say that IC Rome as well as the whole of Italy is under lockdown due to the current COVID-19 epidemic. News is slow to get out, so your first RP post should not be of complete knowledge of what's happening but more of a general acknowledgement that something very bad has happened in Rome. The city is burning and the pope is nowhere to be seen.

1. My word is law. If I ban you from RP, you don't post.
2. Posts must be longer than a paragraph (~six sentences)
3. Have fun people.

[The Archipelago Territory]

Hi, I’m interested in RPing here. Is there an application?

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Hi, I’m interested in RPing here. Is there an application?

Nah not really. I feel like applications make people unnecessarily committed to RPs, per se. I've found that a lot of those types of RPs just peter out. Much like other conflicts or historical events nations can come and go in their influence/interactions.

[The Archipelago Territory]

Hi, I’m interested in RPing here. Is there an application?

Nah not really. I feel like applications make people unnecessarily committed to RPs, per se. I've found that a lot of those types of RPs just peter out. Much like other conflicts or historical events nations can come and go in their influence/interactions.

Ok, thanks, should I post on the IC thread you linked here or will you make another one in international incidents

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Nah not really. I feel like applications make people unnecessarily committed to RPs, per se. I've found that a lot of those types of RPs just peter out. Much like other conflicts or historical events nations can come and go in their influence/interactions.

Ok, thanks, should I post on the IC thread you linked here or will you make another one in international incidents

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=484113

Already made.

[Allanea]

Greetings.

I'm Allanea.

For those not previously exposed to my nation, Allanea is a militant libertarian constitutional monarchy (constitutional monarchy in the sense of "the Crown has limited and defined powers", not in the sense of "the crown is symbolic only".). It is the leader-state of a large alliance called the Greater Prussian Empire, which is founded on the ideas of capitalism, individual rights (particularly, religious liberties), and military strength – and which was originally founded as a Protestant group, although currently this has been downplayed in favor of a broader "religious liberties" approach.

What does this mean for you? Well, while there is religious liberty in Allanea, and while there are Catholics in Allanea, Allaneans are extremely skeptical of Catholicism, and especially of groups that seek to interpret Catholicism as justifying oppression, slavery, torture, etc. (Allaneans basically believe that while Catholicism itself is somewhat dubious, such interpretations of it as to allow crimes against humanity are effectively blasphemous and mock the idea of Christian faiths. Non-Christian Allaneans might reject Christianity as a whole but they still think that Jesus taught love and tolerance and peace and therefore see such regimes as 'twisting' Jesus' message. Obviously Christian Allaneans, whether Protestant or Catholic, are just straight-up outraged by this shit).

In case anyone has been hiding under a rock, Allaneans really, but really, but really dislike slavery. This is tempered by the reality that Allanea can't abolish slavery around the entire world at once, and some slaveholding societies are either too powerful or for other reasons impossible to overthrow. (Is this hypocritical on our part? Quite possibly!) But Allanea maintains a policy which is politely referred to as "cost imposition strategy".

OOC speaking, this is basically a way for me to be involved and have roleplays with people without outright doing full-tilt WAAAAAGH trying to overthrow them. Instead I may do sabotage, or assassinations, or espionage.

So I'm going to be over here.

I'm sensitive to the fact you're not likely to let me claim a pre-existing espionage structure in your nation, so here are some questions which pertain solely to what a reasonably well-informed foreign service would be able to know from open sources and through the evaluation of satellite data:

1. Can you explain the process of church slavery more? How do people end up "church thralls"?
2. How do convents in your nation work? Are they like modern convents, more or less consensual, or are they like medieval convents in which unwanted offspring (particularly girls) were essentially imprisoned?
3. Does your nation operate some version of Magdalene Laundries, or any kind of such structure, for 'misbehaving' or 'lost' women (or perhaps even men)?
4. How badly is your nation hit with COVID-19? Are things like "mass graves" already involved? [Bear in mind that mass graves can be reliably detected from satellite photography].
5. How substantial is violence outside Rome?

Thank you for your assistance.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

*pokes head in* And as promised OP I won't be employing or mentioning my MagicT side at all.
Who controls Malta?

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

1. Can you explain the process of church slavery more? How do people end up "church thralls"?
2. How do convents in your nation work? Are they like modern convents, more or less consensual, or are they like medieval convents in which unwanted offspring (particularly girls) were essentially imprisoned?
3. Does your nation operate some version of Magdalene Laundries, or any kind of such structure, for 'misbehaving' or 'lost' women (or perhaps even men)?
4. How badly is your nation hit with COVID-19? Are things like "mass graves" already involved? [Bear in mind that mass graves can be reliably detected from satellite photography].
5. How substantial is violence outside Rome?

Thank you for your assistance.

1: It's not insomuch *just* church slavery, but there are servants owned by the church to fill minor ecclesiastical positions and staff. The world has seen a lull in enthusiasm for the church vocations, so we took an alternative approach to keep the clergy stocked. It should be noted that if a "Servus Dei" as we call that class reaches their vows of priesthood, they're freed. Temporal slavery is a mixture between Roman slavery (hence why they're called "Servants" from "Servus") and 17th century Spanish Hacienda chattel slavery. Basically the brutality of Spanish slavery with the opportunities to advance with Roman slavery. The greatest "success" story in state propaganda is our former Pope Victor IV. He was born an illegitimate son of a Dandolo-Borgia, rose through the church's vocational system to become a deacon. His father then married his mother, freed them both, and he was raised to Cardinal.

As for the elephant in the room, no, we no longer permit the Pureza de Sangre system and Slavery is not based on Race. Most slaves are imported from various nations (mostly dead ones now, it's been awhile. Munkchester was one of them) but also prisoners of war (Lutheran Kingdom) and our own dissidents. The Inquisition has been known to shackle heretics instead of burning them at times. Slaves can be of any ethnic background or origin.

As for whom does the importing? It's a monopoly belonging to the Vatican bank, and thus by extension, The House of Medici. Shipping and sales are split geographically between Venice, The Dutch, and The Portuguese.

2. Both. Very much both. The church encourages voluntary joining of our sisterhoods, but also allows for the cloistering of uneeded children. Same for our male monastic orders. This, however, is not really a problem for the Borgia nobility. Those of the dynastic bloodline are almost always dually clergy and cardinal, if they are men. Women of noble blood and title tend to join orders of nuns for an equivalency. Pappisa Clementia XV, mother of Sixtus VI, was a Hieronymite nun. When nobles do abandon their girls, they're heavily encouraged to send them to the Sisters of Saint Michael. Their current commander, Corella, is one of those girls.

3. No. These are considered barbaric and were abolished/censured by Papissa Dionysia III. Prostitution is legal within our dominion, and taxed by the Vatican bank.

4. As bad as Italy is now. We don't wanna exaggerate something from IRL.

5. No violence outside Rome as of yet. This move by Orsini was a surgical strike that got out of hand. Italy will see expanded violence as the fallout of this expands and word gets out.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

*pokes head in* And as promised OP I won't be employing or mentioning my MagicT side at all.
Who controls Malta?

Here's a map of the Papal Empire. In Yellow. Ignore everything else, that's outdated and all those nations are dead. Malta is owned by me, but I can certainly ignore that for RP sake. Orsini is commander of the Hospitaller Knights but this nation is *heavily* inspired by the Renaissance church, so they might as well be pushed back to Rhodes anyway.

[Allanea]

My plan is to softly forget for the purpose of this RP that Allanea controls a Malta - I'll assume that due to the fractal nature of the NS HyperEarth it's a different Malta. This is simply for your convenience.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

*pokes head in* And as promised OP I won't be employing or mentioning my MagicT side at all.
Who controls Malta?

Here's a map of the Papal Empire. In Yellow. Ignore everything else, that's outdated and all those nations are dead. Malta is owned by me, but I can certainly ignore that for RP sake. Orsini is commander of the Hospitaller Knights but this nation is *heavily* inspired by the Renaissance church, so they might as well be pushed back to Rhodes anyway.

I intend to play as the Empire of Fuso and the Commonwealth of Britannia. My main (i.e. this account) would have its canon too convoluted to join so Ostmark will not be involved. All I need is Malta as a British naval and air base.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Here's a map of the Papal Empire. In Yellow. Ignore everything else, that's outdated and all those nations are dead. Malta is owned by me, but I can certainly ignore that for RP sake. Orsini is commander of the Hospitaller Knights but this nation is *heavily* inspired by the Renaissance church, so they might as well be pushed back to Rhodes anyway.

I intend to play as the Empire of Fuso and the Commonwealth of Britannia. My main (i.e. this account) would have its canon too convoluted to join so Ostmark will not be involved. All I need is Malta as a British naval and air base.

Malta is yours then.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Thank you very much. :3

[United World Order]

I am interested in joining. A question I have is, what is the status of other political ideologies within the Papal states? Are there movements/groups around that affiliate with Fascism, etc?

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

I am interested in joining. A question I have is, what is the status of other political ideologies within the Papal states? Are there movements/groups around that affiliate with Fascism, etc?

Yes, there are many different schools of thought within the curia AND the population. For example, in my conclave threads (when they happen) I tend to define the Papabile between various schools of thought. Pope Victor IV was an enligtened absolutist, but Papissa Clementia XV was a moderate reformer of the judicial system. Her son, Sixtus VI who just temporarily took power was a reactionary medievalist who sought to return the church to its medieval doctrines. Had he had a longer reign, he'd have come into long conflicts with the current King of Spain, Viracocha. Viracocha is a hard leftist, former Christo-Socialist.

As for fringe groups among the population, they also exist, as they would in any country. The Inquisition brutally and effectively clamps down on any they consider to be threats to the state and church, however. Fascism, Communism, Republicanism, and Democratism fall under that jurisdiction.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Ok, so I posted a "news article" as a kinda rushed catchup for context for anyone who wants to know WTF is going on leading up to this RP. It also does have story implications as being the first legitimate public broadcasting of this news event for the world.

Even one of the 'comments' has some story implications haha. That being said that's all I'm posting for a few days...I have to write an eight page final exam tomorrow. Great.

Allanea I read your post and it is honestly legit wonderful prose. I didn't respond to it story wise 'cause I thought it too soon to do so.

[Allanea]

Right, substantially my idea is that the submarines will approach your nation in relative stealth, one of them towards the North Sea and one towards Venice.

It's my general rule that I do naval deployments in a 3-post structure - a post describing the ships departing, one describing them en route, and then they actually arrive on the scene and begin to take action in the third post. This is to give other roleplayers a fair chance to do something about my involvement.

If you feel that's not necessary I can skip ahead directly to arrival.

Substantially, however, the goal of the operation is to use the mayhem that's ongoing in the Papacy to gather intelligence (by attaching listening devices to underwater cables), and carry out sabotage on infrastructure located near the shore.

As I appreciate that you probably don't have the infrastructure in your country worked out to a great level of detail (which is not a problem, neither do I really!), I am hoping to use Wikipedia as a reference as to the infrastructure that exists in the general area of your nation (assuming broadly the same kinds of bridges, factories, etc. exist in those geographic areas as IRL, corrected for the use of slave labor of course). I hope that this is okay.

[Britiannia]

Posted, hope you don't mind the slight PMT bits. :3

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

I'm back! Just needed a weekend of relief after 15 pages worth of essays. A bit of a filler piece, tbh, but its an exercise to get back in the game.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

Ok so, Allanea I am not ignoring your posts, I'm definitely going to start initiating a response to them tomorrow. That last one of mine finally got most of the central players in the narrative into play now. I can't exactly ignore a blown up ship in Venice, haha. Wonderfully done and executed.

A bit of clarification on some things by the way.

A dramatis personae:

Sixtus VI, Pope, dead but officially missing.

Paolo Borgia, Sacred Band survivor. missing

Cardinal Pierre d'Euse-Borgia, Head of Inquisition, Imprisoned, but escaped.

Cardinal Montalvo-Borgia, acting head of ADB news. Fled the country

Virgnio Orsini-Borgia, Prince of Knights Hospitaller, Sacked Rome and Defending It. Wants to hold legal conclave.

Emilina Corella, Mother Superior of Sisters of Saint Michael Garroted Sixtus VI, defending Latium alongside Orsini

Ippolito de Medici-Borgia, Duke of Tuscany Controls the Vatican bank, closed it off. Holed up in Florence

King Viracocha de Borja of Spain Has sealed off the kingdom, will not be involved in this RP all that much

Alfonso de Borja, Duke of Naples Intends to move north and choose a pope of his own. Restore order above all.

Duke Gian Galeazzo II of Milan Provided an army to Leonello, seeks to install puppet pope

Leonello d'Este-Borgia, Count of Modena and Reggio Intends to seize Papal Throne by force, and rule as Pope.


One other thing. Armor. Y'all might have noticed a lot of my characters seemingly are wearing 16th-18th century plate armor...and their armies seem to move like those from that time period too. The latter is on purpose, the former because I'm not as well versed in modern military tactics. The armor isn't just old suits of armor from the middle ages. They're 'improved' by modern technologies and techniques. They're padded with kevlar underneath the mail, have a semi-decent cooling system, modern alloys for lightness and strength as well as a HUD display akin-to-but-not equal to Iron Man's in their bascinet.

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

This RP is still open for anyone to join by the way.

[Allanea]

I'm a bit confused. Do you, perchance, have "former" and "latter" in the wrong order?

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

I'm a bit confused. Do you, perchance, have "former" and "latter" in the wrong order?

Yes, yes I do.....

[TURTLESHROOM II]

1. I want TurtleShroom to intervene directly in this. Preferably by an actual invasion- small-scale because of the distance, of course -or if not that, a Crusade. Something violent. Icfella will get to show his excitable side in a less positive way.

2. I was unaware that the Borgian See engages directly in slavery. I was under the impression that Borgian Papists were freemen. I had never thought of anything otherwise.

3. I am very disheartened and upset that the last two threads were not sent to me. Those are so cool and I'd love to have played!

4. I want TurtleShroom to be the one to sack the Vatican Bank as punishment for its prostitution taxation's blood money and other sins.

5. I'd like to consider House Icfella taking a more ambitious role in the Borgian See, in that the Icfella concubines married into the Borgian Church are doing something. Preferably, the Cardinal sending out messages on the pig's foot... I'd like to see him be one of the Icfella sister's concubine, and maybe one of the villains of the story to the north of the Papal States. Who were they married off to, anyway? I want to focus on them strongly. Obviously, this is all your say, Borgian See.

Do I have your permission to engage in any of these actions?

[Il Borgia Vaticano]

1. I want TurtleShroom to intervene directly in this. Preferably by an actual invasion- small-scale because of the distance, of course -or if not that, a Crusade. Something violent. Icfella will get to show his excitable side in a less positive way.

2. I was unaware that the Borgian See engages directly in slavery. I was under the impression that Borgian Papists were freemen. I had never thought of anything otherwise.

3. I am very disheartened and upset that the last two threads were not sent to me. Those are so cool and I'd love to have played!

4. I want TurtleShroom to be the one to sack the Vatican Bank as punishment for its prostitution taxation's blood money and other sins.

5. I'd like to consider House Icfella taking a more ambitious role in the Borgian See, in that the Icfella concubines married into the Borgian Church are doing something. Preferably, the Cardinal sending out messages on the pig's foot... I'd like to see him be one of the Icfella sister's concubine, and maybe one of the villains of the story to the north of the Papal States. Who were they married off to, anyway? I want to focus on them strongly. Obviously, this is all your say, Borgian See.

Do I have your permission to engage in any of these actions?

An invasion is approved, but sacking the Vatican bank is not. That needs to be still in play for other contenders. Try not to make it an outright blitzkrieg though. Italy will be repulsed by such an opportunistic invasion. I have legitmately no memory of whom the concubines were...Orsini would be against it so not him. Maybe some random member of the extended family no one remembers? Feel free to make him up.

As for slavery, 80% of the population is free...the other 20% not so much. I got the 'slavery' policy from an issue one day and decided to just go with it.