MAGAThread XVIII: The Authority Is Total

[Inhorto]

Obviously, there's more factors, but "the government still governs" is a really significant one.
More specifically, there's four big factors, as defined by the Fund for Peace:

• Loss of control over its territory/monopoly on violence within it
• Erosion of legitimate authority
• Inability to provide public services
• Inability to interact with other states

The US doesn't meet any of them.

Just for the sake of nitpicking, wouldn't the first one be met by the 2nd Amendment alone and stuff like Castle laws?

Not that I'm saying the US is literally a failed state, I just like to poke things.

The United States having liberal gun laws doesn't translate into it having lost control of its territory. The Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms, not snatch up territory. If there is any country on Earth that can secure its territorial integrity and ward off threats from within and without, it's going to be the US.

[Neutraligon]

Obviously, there's more factors, but "the government still governs" is a really significant one.
More specifically, there's four big factors, as defined by the Fund for Peace:

• Loss of control over its territory/monopoly on violence within it
• Erosion of legitimate authority
• Inability to provide public services
• Inability to interact with other states

The US doesn't meet any of them.

Just for the sake of nitpicking, wouldn't the first one be met by the 2nd Amendment alone and stuff like Castle laws?

Not that I'm saying the US is literally a failed state, I just like to poke things.

I don't think so. I will say we are in the process of watching the second occur, and have been for while.

[Albrenia]

Just for the sake of nitpicking, wouldn't the first one be met by the 2nd Amendment alone and stuff like Castle laws?

Not that I'm saying the US is literally a failed state, I just like to poke things.

The United States having liberal gun laws doesn't translate into it having lost control of its territory. The Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms, not snatch up territory. If there is any country on Earth that can secure its territorial integrity and ward off threats from within and without, it's going to be the US.

I was more referring to the 'monopoly of violence with it' part.

[Telconi]

The United States having liberal gun laws doesn't translate into it having lost control of its territory. The Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms, not snatch up territory. If there is any country on Earth that can secure its territorial integrity and ward off threats from within and without, it's going to be the US.

I was more referring to the 'monopoly of violence with it' part.

To be fair, if we count the capacity of the people to commit violence as rendering a state failed, then they're all failed.

[Proctopeo]

Just for the sake of nitpicking, wouldn't the first one be met by the 2nd Amendment alone and stuff like Castle laws?

Not that I'm saying the US is literally a failed state, I just like to poke things.

I don't think so. I will say we are in the process of watching the second occur, and have been for while.

The question being, who's eroding it?

[Albrenia]

I was more referring to the 'monopoly of violence with it' part.

To be fair, if we count the capacity of the people to commit violence as rendering a state failed, then they're all failed.

Also mostly true. As I said though, sometimes I just like to nitpick for no good reason.

[Inhorto]

The United States having liberal gun laws doesn't translate into it having lost control of its territory. The Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms, not snatch up territory. If there is any country on Earth that can secure its territorial integrity and ward off threats from within and without, it's going to be the US.

I was more referring to the 'monopoly of violence with it' part.

The vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding citizens. People don't suddenly itch with the urge of overthrowing Washington because they've bought a gun. I mean, I would like to see more gun control, but connecting gun ownership to the US somehow being a failed state seems preposterous to me. Maybe it's true for Somalia, but not here.

[Valrifell]

Obviously, there's more factors, but "the government still governs" is a really significant one.
More specifically, there's four big factors, as defined by the Fund for Peace:

• Loss of control over its territory/monopoly on violence within it
• Erosion of legitimate authority
• Inability to provide public services
• Inability to interact with other states

The US doesn't meet any of them.

Just for the sake of nitpicking, wouldn't the first one be met by the 2nd Amendment alone and stuff like Castle laws?

Not that I'm saying the US is literally a failed state, I just like to poke things.

No, because the 2nd amendment breaks the government's monopoly on arms, but not violence. For instance, the agents of the government are more or less allowed to kill whenever it feels like it's warranted and decides if a usage of violence is legitimate or not, no other institution has that kind of authority. That's what they mean with "monopoly on violence".

Losing it is usually analogous to either a bunch of warlords riding around or a complete breakdown of any civil society.

[Albrenia]

Just for the sake of nitpicking, wouldn't the first one be met by the 2nd Amendment alone and stuff like Castle laws?

Not that I'm saying the US is literally a failed state, I just like to poke things.

No, because the 2nd amendment breaks the government's monopoly on arms, but not violence. For instance, the agents of the government are more or less allowed to kill whenever it feels like it's warranted and decides if a usage of violence is legitimate or not, no other institution has that kind of authority. That's what they mean with "monopoly on violence".

Losing it is usually analogous to either a bunch of warlords riding around or a complete breakdown of any civil society.

Makes sense. Consider my nitpick... un-picked?

[Neutraligon]

I don't think so. I will say we are in the process of watching the second occur, and have been for while.

The question being, who's eroding it?

Right now, politicians and the media

[Telconi]

The question being, who's eroding it?

Right now, politicians and the media

Missing the forest for the trees my dude, in the end politicians and media are predicated upon support. The one's eroding it are the American people as a whole.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Update on the poll:

8 for genuine 0 for sarcastic 1 for confused and 3 for he just talks sans filter

[Neutraligon]

Right now, politicians and the media

Missing the forest for the trees my dude, in the end politicians and media are predicated upon support. The one's eroding it are the American people as a whole.

That would depend on if you have a political and "ruling" elite. The US does, despite not being monarchy.

[Zurkerx]

Oh look, Trump says briefings 'not worth the effort' amid fallout from disinfectant comments.

I'm even surprised he even pulled the plug given the embarrassing shit he says. Also, Trump is considering replacing HHS Azar due to his early mishandling of the Coronavirus. While I certainly would be upset with Azar, I'm more disappointed in Trump, who is basically blaming others for his problems (no surprise there).

[Jerzylvania]

Oh look, Trump says briefings 'not worth the effort' amid fallout from disinfectant comments.

I'm even surprised he even pulled the plug given the embarrassing shit he says. Also, Trump is considering replacing HHS Azar due to his early mishandling of the Coronavirus. While I certainly would be upset with Azar, I'm more disappointed in Trump, who is basically blaming others for his problems (no surprise there).

Trump isn't fooling anyone anymore. He's a failure at crisis management.

[Bombadil]

Oh look, Trump says briefings 'not worth the effort' amid fallout from disinfectant comments.

I'm even surprised he even pulled the plug given the embarrassing shit he says. Also, Trump is considering replacing HHS Azar due to his early mishandling of the Coronavirus. While I certainly would be upset with Azar, I'm more disappointed in Trump, who is basically blaming others for his problems (no surprise there).

Trump isn't fooling anyone anymore. He's a failure at crisis management.

He doesn't need to fool anyone, FOX is essentially ignoring the story, they have a clip of Dr. Birx whitewashing the incident and they're going with Kim Jong-Un instead.

It's literally a different world.

[Farnhamia]

Oh look, Trump says briefings 'not worth the effort' amid fallout from disinfectant comments.

I'm even surprised he even pulled the plug given the embarrassing shit he says. Also, Trump is considering replacing HHS Azar due to his early mishandling of the Coronavirus. While I certainly would be upset with Azar, I'm more disappointed in Trump, who is basically blaming others for his problems (no surprise there).

Ah, the blaming of the innocent begins.

[Jerzylvania]

Trump isn't fooling anyone anymore. He's a failure at crisis management.

He doesn't need to fool anyone, FOX is essentially ignoring the story, they have a clip of Dr. Birx whitewashing the incident and they're going with Kim Jong-Un instead.

It's literally a different world.

True enough, but it still proves my point. Trump isn't fooling FOX News' management either so they are avoiding the story. They've observed what a fool he's shown himself to be. Now if his fanboy base saw Trump say these things on live TV then they know too... except the viewers that are fool enough to think drinking bleach is safe. How many can than be? Maybe half? Ugh.

[Albrenia]

Oh look, Trump says briefings 'not worth the effort' amid fallout from disinfectant comments.

Thank Christ. Now maybe the briefings can give out useful information instead of the ramblings of a badly tanned dumbass.

[Telconi]

Missing the forest for the trees my dude, in the end politicians and media are predicated upon support. The one's eroding it are the American people as a whole.

That would depend on if you have a political and "ruling" elite. The US does, despite not being monarchy.

Every nation with a government has a political elite.

[The East Marches II]

Just for the sake of nitpicking, wouldn't the first one be met by the 2nd Amendment alone and stuff like Castle laws?

Not that I'm saying the US is literally a failed state, I just like to poke things.

No, because the 2nd amendment breaks the government's monopoly on arms, but not violence. For instance, the agents of the government are more or less allowed to kill whenever it feels like it's warranted and decides if a usage of violence is legitimate or not, no other institution has that kind of authority. That's what they mean with "monopoly on violence".

Losing it is usually analogous to either a bunch of warlords riding around or a complete breakdown of any civil society.

Very cool, looks like we already qualify for failed state status then! Good job Varlifell, your lot did a wonderful job in Chicago!

[Petroslovania]

This thread has more people on it who hate Trump than people who actually support and believe in Making America Great Again.

[Gormwood]

This thread has more people on it who hate Trump than people who actually support and believe in Making America Great Again.

And the Gun Control thread is mostly gun huggers and the Feminism thread is mostly MRAs. Welcome to NSG.

[Cannot think of a name]

This thread has more people on it who hate Trump than and people who actually support and believe in Making America Great Again.

Some edits for clarity.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

This thread has more people on it who hate Trump than people who actually support and believe in Making America Great Again.

Did you believe that you have come to the Heiling thread?