[PASSED] Access to Abortion

[Wallenburg]

"Would 'abortion' within the context of this proposal purely refer to the fetal removal procedure which destroys and kills the fetus, or would it allow for the term to be interpreted as an alternative procedure which removes the fetus but preserves it for transplantation elsewhere? The latter has almost entirely if not fully replaced the former within the Confederacy, including Ida Station."

"The definition is very clear. Abortion refers to a medical procedure which terminates a pregnancy. Destruction or otherwise killing the fetus is usually a necessary by-product, but if you have the equipment to terminate the pregnancy without it, that works perfectly well."

[Stellar Colonies]

"Would 'abortion' within the context of this proposal purely refer to the fetal removal procedure which destroys and kills the fetus, or would it allow for the term to be interpreted as an alternative procedure which removes the fetus but preserves it for transplantation elsewhere? The latter has almost entirely if not fully replaced the former within the Confederacy, including Ida Station."

"The definition is very clear. Abortion refers to a medical procedure which terminates a pregnancy. Destruction or otherwise killing the fetus is usually a necessary by-product, but if you have the equipment to terminate the pregnancy without it, that works perfectly well."

"Excellent."

[Yohannes]

Official Statement of the Yohannesian Executive Council: The Yohannesian Executive Council, we acknowledge the importance of this proposal. We believe that "Access to Abortion" can achieve a number of important things.

Some of Yohannes' trade partners are very, very patriarchal countries—Colonial Bigtopia, New Brancaland and Revolutionary Brasilistan, in these countries, there exist many socio-cultural and economic factors which hinder access to legal and safe abortion. Legal restrictions, for instance, and inherent abortion-related stigmas locally: a hostile abortion environment which limits access to professional and adequately funded abortion services, hindering the ability of an innocent woman to seek care and obtain an abortion in a safe setting.

Legality, safety and accessibility. For these reasons, we intend to vote For "Access to Abortion."

—Princess Elisabeth, Yohannesian Ambassador

[WayNeacTia]

This is more unnecessary shit. Can we please repeal the rest of these damn resoultions and pass a blocker that leaves these matters up to national governments once and for all please?

We want to reiterate that this will not make it to vote

Swing and a MISS!!!!!!!!

[Separatist Peoples]

This is more unnecessary shit. Can we please repeal the rest of these damn resoultions and pass a blocker that leaves these matters up to national governments once and for all please?

Ooc: that is a compromise. There is no good reason to compromise on this issue.

[WayNeacTia]

This is more unnecessary shit. Can we please repeal the rest of these damn resoultions and pass a blocker that leaves these matters up to national governments once and for all please?

Ooc: that is a compromise. There is no good reason to compromise on this issue.

Please explain for me? I am not going to sit here and argue pro-life vs pro-choice. One has merits, the other is control. I am a choicer myself, but I am tired of this debate. Leave it up to nations and maybe, just MAYBE this will end once and for all?

[Attempted Socialism]

This is more unnecessary shit. Can we please repeal the rest of these damn resoultions and pass a blocker that leaves these matters up to national governments once and for all please?

We want to reiterate that this will not make it to vote

Swing and a MISS!!!!!!!!

"On Abortion was a compromise - a reasonable position - but anti-choice groups always tried to dismantle or avoid compliance of it. Then we passed more legislation, to get around that non-compliance with a fair compromise. Then anti-choice nations tried to repeal both the original compromise and the enforcement. That fell to the ground in another compromise; stability with the two passed resolutions. However, a small fraction of anti-choice nations cannot adhere to the compromise, and now we have to set the record straight."

[The New California Republic]

We want to reiterate that this will not make it to vote

Swing and a MISS!!!!!!!!

Yeah that was either just a very poor prediction or wishful thinking.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Ooc: that is a compromise. There is no good reason to compromise on this issue.

Please explain for me? I am not going to sit here and argue pro-life vs pro-choice. One has merits, the other is control. I am a choicer myself, but I am tired of this debate. Leave it up to nations and maybe, just MAYBE this will end once and for all?

This is naive in the extreme. This body has passed blockers on this subject in the past and it didn't end the debate. There's no reason to believe that repealing all of the resolutions and passing a blocker in its place would end the debate.

Frankly, there's an easy solution - pass bill after bill after bill expanding access to abortion, subsidising abortion, encouraging abortion - and maybe eventually those that want to discriminate against women will fuck off out of this place for good.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: that is a compromise. There is no good reason to compromise on this issue.

Please explain for me? I am not going to sit here and argue pro-life vs pro-choice. One has merits, the other is control. I am a choicer myself, but I am tired of this debate. Leave it up to nations and maybe, just MAYBE this will end once and for all?

Ooc: for one, as already noted, people will still try to remove the blocker and try again. This issue wont ever vanish, nor will drafts about it stop.

For another, compromise is what two sides do when either can clearly or decisively win. That is not necessary here. The pro choice side has the decisive path to victory. Giving it up does not benefit them, since the pro life crowd has nothing to of value offer in exchange that can be trusted. It would be against the pro choice bloc's interest to compromise.

[The New Sicilian State]

Ooc: for one, as already noted, people will still try to remove the blocker and try again. This issue wont ever vanish, nor will drafts about it stop.

For another, compromise is what two sides do when either can clearly or decisively win. That is not necessary here. The pro choice side has the decisive path to victory. Giving it up does not benefit them, since the pro life crowd has nothing to of value offer in exchange that can be trusted. It would be against the pro choice bloc's interest to compromise.

OOC: That's a tad contradictory in my opinion. If we have the decisive path to victory, but individuals are still trying to remove the blocker while racking up pages upon pages of (occasionally less than civil) arguments, is that victory? Winning means the conflict ends, and realistically the conflict will never end. At some point, I assume I'd rather reach common ground than continue a fight that divides and exists continuously.

[Imperium Anglorum]

OOC: That's a tad contradictory in my opinion. If we have the decisive path to victory, but individuals are still trying to remove the blocker while racking up pages upon pages of (occasionally less than civil) arguments, is that victory? Winning means the conflict ends, and realistically the conflict will never end. At some point, I assume I'd rather reach common ground than continue a fight that divides and exists continuously.

I would not confuse forum arguments from fringe factions with the actualities of victory on the voting field.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ooc: for one, as already noted, people will still try to remove the blocker and try again. This issue wont ever vanish, nor will drafts about it stop.

For another, compromise is what two sides do when either can clearly or decisively win. That is not necessary here. The pro choice side has the decisive path to victory. Giving it up does not benefit them, since the pro life crowd has nothing to of value offer in exchange that can be trusted. It would be against the pro choice bloc's interest to compromise.

OOC: That's a tad contradictory in my opinion. If we have the decisive path to victory, but individuals are still trying to remove the blocker while racking up pages upon pages of (occasionally less than civil) arguments, is that victory? Winning means the conflict ends, and realistically the conflict will never end. At some point, I assume I'd rather reach common ground than continue a fight that divides and exists continuously.

Ooc: there isnt common ground. The positions are mutually exclusive. Even assuming the regular GA community had a compromise, there would be people who disagreed and would keep fighting. We've seen this here in the thread.

If you wish to define victory as a universal agreement that stops all debate, that wont be possible until you shut down the game. Victory is a decisive and solid passage of your policy, not termination of dissent. We banned torture within the first 10 resolutions but people still argue it should be legal. Is that realistically an ongoing conflict?

[The New Sicilian State]

te]

Ooc: there isnt common ground. The positions are mutually exclusive. Even assuming the regular GA community had a compromise, there would be people who disagreed and would keep fighting. We've seen this here in the thread.

If you wish to define victory as a universal agreement that stops all debate, that wont be possible until you shut down the game. Victory is a decisive and solid passage of your policy, not termination of dissent. We banned torture within the first 10 resolutions but people still argue it should be legal. Is that realistically an ongoing conflict?

OOC: Sure, I understand that they're mutually exclusive, one can't be both pro-life and pro-choice at the same time without having some serious logical fallacies. In the GA's context, I would like to think that simply leaving the matter up to the member states would come as close to a compromise as one could fathom, but as I give some legitimate thought to it, if our side wouldn't settle for that why on earth would theirs? Though your definition of victory is much more applicable to the current situation we find ourselves in, I suppose I'm simply doomed to long for a solution to a debate that leaves each side satisfied (or at least both sides equally dissatisfied).

I would not confuse forum arguments from fringe factions with the actualities of victory on the voting field.

OOC: Perhaps... I frequently forget that mainly those with radical opinions are the ones that find themselves here. Personally I don't support the notion of abortion, but I do support an individual's right to do whatever they want with their bodies, therefore I never have much reason to put myself in the argument.

[Separatist Peoples]

te]

Ooc: there isnt common ground. The positions are mutually exclusive. Even assuming the regular GA community had a compromise, there would be people who disagreed and would keep fighting. We've seen this here in the thread.

If you wish to define victory as a universal agreement that stops all debate, that wont be possible until you shut down the game. Victory is a decisive and solid passage of your policy, not termination of dissent. We banned torture within the first 10 resolutions but people still argue it should be legal. Is that realistically an ongoing conflict?

OOC: Sure, I understand that they're mutually exclusive, one can't be both pro-life and pro-choice at the same time without having some serious logical fallacies. In the GA's context, I would like to think that simply leaving the matter up to the member states would come as close to a compromise as one could fathom, but as I give some legitimate thought to it, if our side wouldn't settle for that why on earth would theirs? Though your definition of victory is much more applicable to the current situation we find ourselves in, I suppose I'm simply doomed to long for a solution to a debate that leaves each side satisfied (or at least both sides equally dissatisfied).

Two concerns:
A. Why would the side with the clear path to legalization agreeto compromise in the first place? The value of a compromise must exceed the value of the victory less the cost saved. Dealing with bad repeal attempts isnt that much of a hassle. So it's not in their interest to do so.

B. Why would you compromise on what you think is an essential right? For both sides, this is like saying that slavery is a national choice. Compromise wouldnt benefit either side overmuch.

[The New Sicilian State]

Two concerns:
A. Why would the side with the clear path to legalization agree to compromise in the first place? The value of a compromise must exceed the value of the victory less the cost saved. Dealing with bad repeal attempts isnt that much of a hassle. So it's not in their interest to do so.

B. Why would you compromise on what you think is an essential right? For both sides, this is like saying that slavery is a national choice. Compromise wouldnt benefit either side overmuch.

Fair point. My admittedly short-sighted prior opinion focused primarily on the ceasing of arguments, but that seems illogical now.

[Auze]

"Would 'abortion' within the context of this proposal purely refer to the fetal removal procedure which destroys and kills the fetus, or would it allow for the term to be interpreted as an alternative procedure which removes the fetus but preserves it for transplantation elsewhere? The latter has almost entirely if not fully replaced the former within the Confederacy, including Ida Station."

"The definition is very clear. Abortion refers to a medical procedure which terminates a pregnancy. Destruction or otherwise killing the fetus is usually a necessary by-product, but if you have the equipment to terminate the pregnancy without it, that works perfectly well."

"I think a lot more people would be on-board with this if the proposals encouraged research and development and use of this type of technology. Obviously some of the more detestable of the anti-abortion may not be, but I'm pretty sure that is as close to ever we could ever come to a compromise. By which I mean people on both sides will try to repeal it within the hour it comes out, but that is unavoidable."

This is more unnecessary shit. Can we please repeal the rest of these damn resoultions and pass a blocker that leaves these matters up to national governments once and for all please?


Swing and a MISS!!!!!!!!

"On Abortion was a compromise - a reasonable position - but anti-choice groups always tried to dismantle or avoid compliance of it. Then we passed more legislation, to get around that non-compliance with a fair compromise. Then anti-choice nations tried to repeal both the original compromise and the enforcement. That fell to the ground in another compromise; stability with the two passed resolutions. However, a small fraction of anti-choice nations cannot adhere to the compromise, and now we have to set the record straight."

*The delegate of Auze says nothing, instead quietly writing something that appears to do with the diet of Auze's Polar Bear Delegation.*

[Attempted Socialism]

"On Abortion was a compromise - a reasonable position - but anti-choice groups always tried to dismantle or avoid compliance of it. Then we passed more legislation, to get around that non-compliance with a fair compromise. Then anti-choice nations tried to repeal both the original compromise and the enforcement. That fell to the ground in another compromise; stability with the two passed resolutions. However, a small fraction of anti-choice nations cannot adhere to the compromise, and now we have to set the record straight."

*The delegate of Auze says nothing, instead quietly writing something that appears to do with the diet of Auze's Polar Bear Delegation.*

The Socialist Delegation appears unaware or convincingly nonplussed by the Auzean scribbling. Instead, the Ambassador keeps reinforcing her point that the current state of legislation is the compromise, broken in bad faith by reactionary anti-choice delegations.

[Auze]

*The delegate of Auze says nothing, instead quietly writing something that appears to do with the diet of Auze's Polar Bear Delegation.*

The Socialist Delegation appears unaware or convincingly nonplussed by the Auzean scribbling. Instead, the Ambassador keeps reinforcing her point that the current state of legislation is the compromise, broken in bad faith by reactionary anti-choice delegations.

"It is not much of a compromise to mandate the legalization of abortion up until birth. While we applaud your commitment to a policy that is infanticidal in its lack of restriction, and to using name-calling to make your opponents sound bad (seriously, your propaganda efforts are impressive), we kinda just wish that everyone would just go all in, and either ban thinking about abortion or make it legal to abort 20 year olds."

[United Massachusetts]

*The delegate of Auze says nothing, instead quietly writing something that appears to do with the diet of Auze's Polar Bear Delegation.*

The Socialist Delegation appears unaware or convincingly nonplussed by the Auzean scribbling. Instead, the Ambassador keeps reinforcing her point that the current state of legislation is the compromise, broken in bad faith by reactionary anti-choice delegations.

We never consented to such a compromise, so we cannot 'break" it.

[Separatist Peoples]

The Socialist Delegation appears unaware or convincingly nonplussed by the Auzean scribbling. Instead, the Ambassador keeps reinforcing her point that the current state of legislation is the compromise, broken in bad faith by reactionary anti-choice delegations.

We never consented to such a compromise, so we cannot 'break" it.

"Less reason to strike an accord, then."

[Incorruptible Gnomes]

If a woman seeking abortion is kidnapped, disappears, or meets an unfortunate end before the operation, Zekeinistani authorities will not investigate.

The orc detector blares out a shrill alarm. Moments later, a gaggle of gnomes pour in through the door, piling onto the Zekeinistani ambassador.

"Orc containment in progress. Please remain calm."

As if the end of a giant pseudopod, the bundling gnomes lift the ambassador into the air and carry them off to the Deorkification Facility.

"The Deorkification Facility is preparing for a mass influx of participants... We will be on call."

[Tinfect]

We never consented to such a compromise, so we cannot 'break" it.

"Yes, we're well aware of your Government's opposition to basic rights."

[Christian Democrats]

This is more unnecessary shit. Can we please repeal the rest of these damn resoultions and pass a blocker that leaves these matters up to national governments once and for all please?

Abortionism is a missionary ideology. Its adherents are committed to spreading a culture of death.

This culture is actively fostered by powerful cultural, economic and political currents which encourage an idea of society excessively concerned with efficiency. Looking at the situation from this point of view, it is possible to speak in a certain sense of a war of the powerful against the weak: a life which would require greater acceptance, love and care is considered useless, or held to be an intolerable burden, and is therefore rejected in one way or another. A person who, because of illness, handicap or, more simply, just by existing, compromises the well-being or life-style of those who are more favoured tends to be looked upon as an enemy to be resisted or eliminated. In this way a kind of "conspiracy against life" is unleashed. This conspiracy involves not only individuals in their personal, family or group relationships, but goes far beyond, to the point of damaging and distorting, at the international level, relations between peoples and States.

[Tinfect]

Abortionism is a missionary ideology. Its adherents are committed to spreading a culture of death.

OOC:
That's funny, coming from the delegate of Catholic. Should I start listing off the countless genocides in the Americas alone that the Catholic Church has been directly involved in? Perhaps the names of my friends who've been hurt by it? The endless list of people that good christian kindness murders on a daily basis? Your particular 'missionary ideology' is responsible for far more suffering than reproductive rights; perhaps start looking for a culture of death at home, before you start flinging accusations around.

Enough with your victim complex. Enough with your pretend-moralizing. You've lost this battle a thousand times, and you will lose it a thousand more.