Right Wing Discussion Thread XIX

[Nakena]

Which is why we need both patriotism and nationalism in the absence of a monarch.

As what would you define a country then? Like a place where you are by tradition, culture and other ways being connected to your kith and kin, your folk?

[un]Truth pilled.

In what? I thought my nationalist credentials were clear?

The state is the people exercising (or declining to exercise) their power to govern the country. Nothing more than that. The state is no more to do with nationalism than business, church, court or army.

Nations are fake. Nations are formed from symbol. Symbol is of course important to man. See: Jung's Man and his Symbols. But Symbols do not a country make, symbols do not a people make. Symbols do not cohere men, only other men cohere men. Symbols can be interpreted many different ways. That's why you have some people around the world who burn American flag, and some people who wave it. Same way Communist flag for many means freedom, and it is on their national flag, and for others tyranny and it is illegal to burn it. Swastika we think is symbol of Nazis, but many other people do not think so.

Without symbol, no nation. But symbol doesn't mean anything, only what you tell people it does, and only what they will believe after you have lied to them enough. So symbol can mean anything. Symbol does mean anything. National flag and eagle is American symbol, but what did it mean to Armistead, Kemper and Garnett? Or what it means today, in complete opposite way, to Kaepernick? No, nations are fake. They are lies that people believe in to reach different truths.

The country is real. The country is the land, the fields, the rivers and the becks, the hills and the woods, the streets, the railway cuts, the beaches. The country is the stench of fertiliser, the salt that blows through into your nose and the boats lined up by the pier, the whipping wind on the moor, the lone lights of the car streaming down the roman road at night, the piss dripping in the back alley.

The country is the mud in which you first kicked a football, the stone bunker in the long gone bomber field, the streets, gardens, and parks where you first fell in love. The country is the war memorial and the plinth, the Norman church, the old homes. The country is the land which your ancestors forty generations removed put their sweat and blood into, the yards in which the women were buried after they had given birth, the fields in which men slaughtered one another. You are one tiny atom of the life of your country, and if you weren't, you would not be of that country, you would be an alien, or a guest. You are a fleeting part of the heritage of your country, which connects you to all the other fleeting parts to make an emergent mass, greater, stronger, more meaningful than the sum of your parts.

That is the only thing that is real. We can touch it. It made us. It shaped and formed our demands, desires, dreams. The country is the individuals greater connection to their community, to their history, to their future. It is not symbol, because it is real, because it can be touched, felt, smelt. It can be fought for, died for, worked for. The country is real.

Nations are fake. Death to nations. Long live the country.

I do know where you are coming from. This stuff is way too woke for NSG. Because it defies certain abstractions that are normative foundations of most worldviews here taken for granted, and who to question is akin to heresy.

[Proctopeo]

I need to up my yar-har fiddle dee dee credibility

whoopsy daisy, looks like you had a wee bit of a stroke back there

time to recreate the golden age

[United Muscovite Nations]

I download all my music from sovmusic.ru

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

I do know where you are coming from. This stuff is way too woke for NSG. Because it defies certain abstractions that are normative foundations of most worldviews here taken for granted, and who to question is akin to heresy.

thats how we roll bro

[Italios]

i've never heard of an actual "person" who willingly gives youtube their money. are you a paid shill?

youtube music is better than spotify because it includes all the non "music" that exists from private uploads on youtube as opposed to spotify which is basically what you find in a CD department but on an app.

honestly millions and millions of people willingly give apple their money, I dont see a difference between apple and youtube (and amazon for that matter.)

that's why you use soundcloud if you want underground music with <1k streams. it's just not worth a premium subscription because it has a smaller song collection and you have unlimited skips on the free version (unlike spotify).

amazon's music service is the worst though, i agree, although this is good because it encourage people to not give money to jeff bezos.

[Cekoviu]

I download all my music from sovmusic.ru

бейзд и редпилд

[United Muscovite Nations]

I download all my music from sovmusic.ru

бейзд и редпилд

I chuckled audibly.

[Proctopeo]

I download all my music from sovmusic.ru

Ra ra Rasputin, Russia's greatest love machine

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

forward, kamaz

[Xuloqoia]

If you use Spotify you're a disgusting degenerate. Real Chads use CDs or cassettes.

Real chads use phonograph cylinders, post-1900 audio equipment is for simps and betas

If you learn to read sheet music you don't need audio equipment.

[Cekoviu]

Real chads use phonograph cylinders, post-1900 audio equipment is for simps and betas

If you learn to read

you lost me right about here, smh, who has time for that in any context

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

youtube music is better than spotify because it includes all the non "music" that exists from private uploads on youtube as opposed to spotify which is basically what you find in a CD department but on an app.

honestly millions and millions of people willingly give apple their money, I dont see a difference between apple and youtube (and amazon for that matter.)

that's why you use soundcloud if you want underground music with <1k streams. it's just not worth a premium subscription because it has a smaller song collection and you have unlimited skips on the free version (unlike spotify).

amazon's music service is the worst though, i agree, although this is good because it encourage people to not give money to jeff bezos.

akshually I was an ardent spotify user until recently.

When I started using spotify (like literally ten years ago woweeeeeeeeeee), the free version was an advert every five songs. Recently my sub ran out (because my card expired) and I tried to use it free only to find out you can't choose what songs you want to listen to, you can only "skip", AND you have to listen to adverts AND you only get 5 skips until an advert. This pissed me off so much I didn't resub

[Bienenhalde]

Cross-posted from the LWDT...

Broke ideologies:
Neoliberalism
Fascism
Marxism
Etc.

Woke ideologies:
Civic ultra-nationalism
Paternalistic conservatism with technocratic characteristics
Esoteric aesthetic post-post-modernism
Strasserism with LGBT+ characteristics
Ego-kratocratic Hoppeanism
Anarcho-primitivism with radical transhumanist characteristics
Etc.

Paternalistic conservatism with technocratic characteristics sounds good.

[Proctopeo]

Real chads use phonograph cylinders, post-1900 audio equipment is for simps and betas

If you learn to read sheet music you don't need audio equipment.

I'm not musically inclined but somehow I can sorta understand sheet music
maybe it's a holdover from when I tried to learn the 3/4ths baritone in grade school

[Xuloqoia]

Cross-posted from the LWDT...

Broke ideologies:
Neoliberalism
Fascism
Marxism
Etc.

Woke ideologies:
Civic ultra-nationalism
Paternalistic conservatism with technocratic characteristics
Esoteric aesthetic post-post-modernism
Strasserism with LGBT+ characteristics
Ego-kratocratic Hoppeanism
Anarcho-primitivism with radical transhumanist characteristics
Etc.

Paternalistic conservatism with technocratic characteristics sounds good.

I mean, come to think of it, it's basically a westernized approximation of Confucian political thought.

[United Muscovite Nations]

that's why you use soundcloud if you want underground music with <1k streams. it's just not worth a premium subscription because it has a smaller song collection and you have unlimited skips on the free version (unlike spotify).

amazon's music service is the worst though, i agree, although this is good because it encourage people to not give money to jeff bezos.

akshually I was an ardent spotify user until recently.

When I started using spotify (like literally ten years ago woweeeeeeeeeee), the free version was an advert every five songs. Recently my sub ran out (because my card expired) and I tried to use it free only to find out you can't choose what songs you want to listen to, you can only "skip", AND you have to listen to adverts AND you only get 5 skips until an advert. This pissed me off so much I didn't resub

^This, seriously. You don't even have to pay to not get ads on youtube AND you get to listen to whatever the fuck you want, including obscure recordings. Sorry, fam, youtube's business model works better for music because it's a better model. I don't even like google and think it should be nationalized, but tbqh its business model proves that the internet functions better as a monopoly.

[Nakena]

I do know where you are coming from. This stuff is way too woke for NSG. Because it defies certain abstractions that are normative foundations of most worldviews here taken for granted, and who to question is akin to heresy.

thats how we roll bro

Things that are on a fundamental level disturbing to their little mundane circlejerks and memeplexes are generally being dismissed or ignored.

Because those threaten the very basis upon which their abstractions have been errected. This is all the worse when said abstractions are flanked with lot neverending appendixes of intellectualized high-wankery.

Then all the more is at stake.

[Cekoviu]

thats how we roll bro

Things that are on a fundamental level disturbing to their little mundane circlejerks and memeplexes are generally being dismissed or ignored.

Because those threaten the very basis upon which their abstractions have been errected. This is all the worse when said abstractions are flanked with lot neverending appendixes of intellectualized high-wankery.

Then all the more is at stake.

an example of intellectualized high-wankery, for people who may not know how to spot it: "This is all the worse when said abstractions are flanked with lot neverending appendixes of intellectualized high-wankery."

[Nakena]

i already did actually, morbid curiosity always ruins me ;~;

hi pot, i'm kettle

it's actually quite amazing how you conveniently crop out my addressing your inability to give a real response to the sex work issue. guess your morbid curiosity prevents you from typing out a response longer than "ur wrong lol"

this is sad, because proliferating those lies about sex work has real repercussions for women, but you can't own up to them.

I am pro-sex work too. lol.

[Novus America]

And where we draw the borders are fake. Where do you draw the line?

And living in the same geographical area alone does not always create a common identity. The literal point of nationalism was to create the common identity that the “country” alone was failing to do!

If I build a Wahhabi Mosque in middle of the UK I am now part of the “country”. It is building built on the land. Does that make me British though?

all of this is intuitive and doesn't need to be written down or delineated, it's just apparent to 95% of people and that's enough.

“The country is the war memorial and the plinth” which are nationalist symbols. Nationalism usually involves the building of physical symbols.

The three ideas, country, nation and state are different yes. But not mutually exclusive and can be complementary.

You problem is actually ascribing to nationalism while claiming to reject it. The physical things built by a nation are part of the national identity.
And your assumption that just because ideas are abstract they are “fake” and should “die”.

Anyways why say long live the country when most the things you mention are not even alive? Buildings, railroad tracks and roads are not alive, they never lived. They are things we build for purposes. Things that change too.

Nationalism is fake because it's not organic. It's a top down instruction telling people to believe things.

Actually no, it does need to be delineated. Because borders change and are often in dispute.

Now sure being and Island creates natural borders more readily than some other places, but not all countries have that. What makes Canada and the US separate countries beyond the line on the map? The buildings and roads are not fundamentally different. And in fact may straddle the line. The difference is in the national identity of the people, and the state governing each, not the physical difference of the land, which is in many cases negligible to non-existent.

Roads are not a top down instruction? How do you think highway networks are built? Roads, railroad cuts, buildings do not merely “organically” spring from the ground, and few are built without some sort of top down instruction involved.

Organic vs artificial is a meaningless false dichotomy.

And nations are not created purely top down either at all. In fact the collective identity of a nation can form in absence of any top down instruction or government.

Besides this is a false dichotomy, in most more representatives systems of government the state might be top down in some respects but the state influenced and built bottom up.

But again nations again do not require a government and state to form to exist. And there can be a mutual cycle between the two.

Besides this conflicts your support for the PRC. How is the top down PRC which deliberately changed thousands of years of culture “organic”? They imposed a new writing system top down. What aspects of traditions they support they deliberate change and coop for the use of the structures of power. They are built on telling people what to believe from the top down!

And it is not intuitive at all that Taiwan is the same “country” as China as it has switched ownership and affiliation many times.

Again you are a nationalist just in denial. Just own up to it.

Look obviously the concept and physical structures of a country have meaning and value, the problem is you assumption that they can be fully separated from concepts of the nation and state, or that ONLY the physical structures have value, because the values we assign to physical structures are in part influenced by the state and concept of nation.

[Taihei Tengoku]

Cross-posted from the LWDT...

Broke ideologies:
Neoliberalism
Fascism
Marxism
Etc.

Woke ideologies:
Civic ultra-nationalism
Paternalistic conservatism with technocratic characteristics
Esoteric aesthetic post-post-modernism
Strasserism with LGBT+ characteristics
Ego-kratocratic Hoppeanism
Anarcho-primitivism with radical transhumanist characteristics
Etc.

Paternalistic conservatism with technocratic characteristics sounds good.

You guys stack adjectives like transgenders do

[Purple Rats]

Syncretic bank nationalisation regime with top ten percentile penis size characteristics

that's actually my fantasy, as a gender critical individual to make the "bathroom police" a real thing

"Gender critical" sounds like 'any noncis gender'phobic, who deep inside knows that they are terrible, so they need to find a term to them to describe themselves without getting called out for their beliefs.

Too sad, it's not working. Nice try, tho.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The only proper sources for music are Eastern European and Russian fileshares.

[Italios]

that's why you use soundcloud if you want underground music with <1k streams. it's just not worth a premium subscription because it has a smaller song collection and you have unlimited skips on the free version (unlike spotify).

amazon's music service is the worst though, i agree, although this is good because it encourage people to not give money to jeff bezos.

akshually I was an ardent spotify user until recently.

When I started using spotify (like literally ten years ago woweeeeeeeeeee), the free version was an advert every five songs. Recently my sub ran out (because my card expired) and I tried to use it free only to find out you can't choose what songs you want to listen to, you can only "skip", AND you have to listen to adverts AND you only get 5 skips until an advert. This pissed me off so much I didn't resub

set up a family account and get your friends to fill the empty spots,* it's probably the cheapest way to access a full streaming service b/c family plans are like $15 for 5 people.

*you pay the full bill and they give you money. i have my brother to thank for this genius business model.

[Italios]

it's actually quite amazing how you conveniently crop out my addressing your inability to give a real response to the sex work issue. guess your morbid curiosity prevents you from typing out a response longer than "ur wrong lol"

this is sad, because proliferating those lies about sex work has real repercussions for women, but you can't own up to them.

I am pro-sex work too. lol.

that is what we like to call a "you" problem because we are actually on a public forum that has people who admit to participating in sex trafficking and mistreating sex workers. lol.