1906: Alternative Divergence [AH][OOC-CLOSED]

[Intermountain States]

What culture would not!Mexico most likely be?

It's up to whatever you want it to be provided that you can make up an explanation for it. Mexico in previous iterations maintained its Aztec culture and defeated the Spanish forces. You could do something similar or maybe something completely different.

[Tracian Empire]

What culture would not!Mexico most likely be?

Like Intermountain said - it can be nearly anything. We have had an Aztec Mexico in previous iterations, but it could very well be a Mexico that was colonized by the Spanish or nearly anything else, as long as long as you can explain it, so just pick whatever idea you like the most!

[Theyra]

Full Nation Name : Neo Inca Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Inca
Territorial Core : Peru, Ecuador, Colombia and Panama
Territorial Claim : Bolivia, Northern part of Chile
Capital City : Cusco, Peru
Population : 9,893,000

Government Type : Constitutional monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : N/A
Government Focus : Securing friendly relations with other nations and maintaining their independence
Head of State : Sapa Inca(Emperor) Jaylli Huayhua
Head of Government : Prime Minister Kukuyu Usucachi
Government Description : While constitutional monarchy and the Sapa Inca is bounded by the constitution. They still hold sufficient power and authority, such as being the commander and chief of the military, can declare war and peace and other things. Also, the Saps Inca picks who is Prime Minister and can dismiss the government and dissolve the parliament.

Majority/State Religion : Inca religion
Religious Description : While the Inca religion is making a comeback and is practiced by a large number of the population, it having been updated to modern times such as getting rid of human sacrifice. Christianity still has followers closely after the Inca religion and is the second biggest religion in the empire.

Economic Ideologies : Mixed Economy
Major Production : Petroleum, agricultural products, and mining
Economic Description : The economy is a compromise between the old socialist ways of the Inca and modern capitalism. Which consisted of large state-owned enterprise sectors operating alongside large private sectors.

Development: Modern
Development Description : Building upon the Spanish colonial infrastructure and using the empire's resources such as petroleum along with careful planning. The empire has thrived and developed to modern standards.

Army Description : The Neo Inca Army or NIA is a volunteer standing army. Numbering at 300,000 and equipped with modern weapons and vehicles. The army's reserve force is semi volunteer and serve for two years in the army before being able to return to civilian life.
Army Weakness : Untested reserve force, though battle-ready, the army is used to dealing with rebels rather than actual armies.
Naval Description : The Imperial navy receives less funding than the army and has a sizable fleet of modern ships.
Naval Weakness : Untested navy that is more suited to patrols and attacking the occasional pirate.
Further Military Description : N/A

[b]National Goals : Became a major power in South America, maintaining independence and reclaiming territory that used to belong to the old Inca Empire
National Issues : Tensions between indigenous and non-indigenous people and religious tensions
National Figures of Interest : N/A
National Ambition/Aspirations : N/A

History : Despite the end of the Inca Empire by the Spanish in 1572, the Inca identity and spirit never went away. The natives clung on to their traditions in spite of the Spanish attempts to erase their culture and make them become Spanish. There were several rebellions over the decades but, all would end in failure and more restrictions set on them by the Spanish. It was not until the failed rebellion led by Túpac Amaru II that ended in 1783 that changed things. Spain imposed several harsh restrictions on the natives such as banning the native's language, wearing indigenous clothing and anything related to the Inca. Though the colonial authority could not properly enforce the restrictions, it caused strong resentment among the natives that were the breaking point for them.

By 1800, in secret, the natives would plan a rebellion the likes the Spanish have never seen. Led by a native called Taruka Huayhua He understood that the natives would need non-natives allies in order to win. Which he first approached several mestizos groups who would increasingly become tired of Spanish rule. Gaining their support and spend throughout the region. Gaining allies among both native and non-natives such as sympathetic colonial leaders and collected a large number of weapons. After years of planning and allies throughout Peru and Ecuador, Lliwkilla waited for an opportunity to present itself to ensure that the rebellion has the best chances of success. That opportunity was when the Congress of Tucuman declared independence from Spanish. With a war of independence in the south, Lliwkilla thought it was time and launched the rebellion. Being called the Great Native Rebellion, rebellion erupted throughout Peru and Ecuador.

The Spanish were taken back by the size of the rebellion fought hard to quell it. Which the rebels led Lliwkilla would win several battles against the Spanish. Pushing them out of Peru and Ecuador through the capital of Lima would prove to be a royalist stronghold and would remain one till near the end of the war. During the Battle for Tarapoto, Taruka was killed by Spanish forces and his son, Lliwkilla took over the rebellion. Though he did not have the charisma of his father. Lliwkilla had the same fiery passion that his father had and worked hard to make sure that the rebellion would succeed.

Other regions such as Colombia and Panama who both resented Spanish rule and saw the success of the rebels and joined on the side of the rebels. With a larger force at his command, Lliwkilla would not squander this chance and used every resource he had to evict the Spanish from South America. The war would last eight years and the last battle was the Battle for Lima which saw the last traces of Spanish rule liberated. Without any control left in South America and no chance of regaining control, the Spanish would agree to recognized their independence and signed a peace treaty in 1828.

Now that they were free of Spanish control, there was talk of what the government of the liberated lands should be. Lliwkilla taking inspiration from the natives past as the Inca. He decided on forming a new Inca Empire called the Neo-Inca Empire and he was chosen to be the first emperor or Sapa Inca. While this was accepted by the people of Peru and Ecuador, it was not accepted by the people of Colombia and Panama. Who ceded from the Empire in 1830. Causing the Inca civil war which lasted for five years which Inca forces were able to defeat the Colombia-Panama forces. Which the two regions were occupied for two years to ensure their loyalty and were withdrawn in 1837.

Once the civil war was over and Lliwkilla was able to consolidate his holdings over the empire. His first actions were the reinstatement of Inca culture and religion, though that was met with resistance from some of the mestizo population. Lifting any restriction that was placed on the natives thought out the empire and put them on par with everyone else, even natives been preferable in the government. Though he did not hamper the rights of the mestizo or european population as he did not wish to become like the Spanish viceroyalties who treated the natives poorly. Over the next years, along with bringing back the ways of the Inca, Lliwkilla would focus on rebuilding the empire and focused on public infrastructure and more. Later when the empire was stable, Lliwkilla under the advice of his advisors and from concerns of the people. The empire transitioned from an absolute monarchy to a constitutional monarchy. Creating the Neo Inca Empire's constitution and under it, Lliwkilla retained sufficient power as Sapa Inca and can be considered as the head of government in some cases.

For the next 38 years, the empire under Lliwkilla thrived despite tensions with the people. The growing oil industry and the empire's rich mineral wealth helped to bring about economic growth for the empire which was spent improving the empire's infrastructure. Modernizing the nation and beginning about a period of peace and prosperity for the empire. Which had a small break in 1885 when a Christian revolt started and was put down bu the Inca Army. In 1905, Sapa Inca Lliwkilla died of old age at 85 and his eldest son Jaylli became the second Sapa Inca of the Neo-Inca Empire. Having an elegant coronation and the first thing he said after becoming Sapa Inca was a promise that under him, the empire will thrive under his rule and a year after he said that. It is unclear if the Sapa Inca can keep that promise and what kind of Sapa Inca he will be.

RP Sample: Scions

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

[Tracian Empire]

Alright, so, I do want to start by saying that this app is absolutely incredible. The ammount of detail present here is pretty much unbelievable, and this is what makes reviewing it a bit difficult

I know that this app was already accepted once, in the previous iteration, and that our discussions there led to a compromise, but that was happening with a different OP and management. I am obviously always trying to be objective, but there are a few things that I thought were issues back then, and that I feel like I have to mention here. But I'm sure that they can be discussed xD

The first issue is a bit more difficult to describe, and it's the main reason it took me so long to finish this review. I feel like there are just several contradictions in some parts of the app. It might be more of an issue of wording than of concepts necessarily, but it does get a bit confusing sometimes. The country has reasonable taxes, and yet it sustains extensive public education and public welfare systems. It is very free-market and capitalistic, and yet the government controls and funds important parts of the industry. It industrialized a lot more aggressively and rapidly than France in real life, and yet it seems to enjoy extensive worker rights and has powerful unions. It's industrialized and urbanized, with a declining agriculture, and yet it is the largest wine producer in the world, an honor that France doesn't have in real life either. It is incredibly well focused on the army and yet it has a navy that is sufficient to control the Western Mediterranean, while it has two neighbors that would presumably have stronger naval forces. The Army is not restricted by tradition and always prides itself on innovation, and yet its units have traditions going back centuries. I know that this sounds like nitpicking, but my point is that it's just too easy to read the app and perceive the country as too perfect. I do feel like the country should have a bit more issues from some points of view to balance things out, but I'm not sure what to suggest since I don't want to intrude on your concept too much, you know?


Now, the second issue is a little more concrete - it's about the army. I of course do understand that a strong army is very important to your concept of this France, and I have nothing against the French Army being among the, or perhaps even the best armed force around - but I do feel like it's just a bit too powerful in some aspects. The present need for the army to be strong would also be somewhat decreased when compared to France's past. France defeated its rivals just a few decades ago, and it would make sense for the military to grow somewhat complacent because of such a victory. Looking at it objectively, France isn't in an impossible situation anymore. The one traditional weak border of France, the northeastern one, is shared with a Zentraleuropa that has just been spiraling further and further out of control,so it would be clear to any foreign observer that the divided military of the Germans is not a worthy rival. And to the south, the borders are easily defensible, and are shared with an enemy also focused on defense in the WRE, and an with an enemy that doesn't strike me as particularly offensive either in Spain. I do think that a certain complacence in the High Command would be an acceptable weakness to balance the otherwise excellent army, and if you have any other proposals instead, feel free to share them!

Continuing with the army however, there are two things that are going to receive a hard no from me - the French theorizing the creeping barrage, and preparing to use gas attacks. And the reason for this is two-fold. The first is that I simply don't believe that wargames and theories are enough to make the general staff come up with something that took two or three years of invaluable and brutal world war experience for real life nations to devise. Even more so since the circumstances that could compel the French to think about that are not fully here. The creeping barrage and the usage of poison gas were both designed in order to break the stalemate of trenches. Not only has France already broken through the defenses of its enemies a few decades ago, but like mentioned above, the one theater of war where such tactics might be used is not enough of an issue. The creeping barrage and poison gas would both be more difficult to use in the Alps or in the Pyrenees, and are as such unlikely to come up as theories about how to break through the Varian Wall as an example. And the second reason is more from an OOC perspective - the French Army is already a terrifying force, granting it tactics and weapons that were properly developed a decade later would be unfair to everyone else. As for machine guns, I am a bit more on the fence, but I tend to not believe that the French would integrate it on a platoon level - machine guns at this point are somewhat heavy and defensive in purpose, which would be contrary to the French offensive strategies. If I remember correctly, the German Army, that was the most advanced around in real life, was only integrating them at regiment level before WW1.


The third issue is the smallest - in regards to history, Kai is against the French just easily punching through the Varian Wall, advancing in the WRE without any resistance and sacking Rome during the wars of Guerin. It doesn't make that much sense - advancing through the fortified Alps would be difficult and bloody even for the best of troops, and the Romans would have fought every step of the way, while sacking Rome in the end doesn't achieve anything in particular - it just seems like something to crown the French victory. It is still perfectly fine for the French to invade the WRE and win, but there would have been resistance, and the further south they would have advanced, the more violent the attacks would have been during their withdrawal.

We can absolutely discuss all of those issues. We reached a compromise before. I'm sure we can do the same now.

I get the "have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too" objection to some parts of the app. I think some of those things need to be changed, some were a matter of bad writing, and some I'm willing to defend. I'm going to go through your list, and respond to each issue.

The tension between free-market economics and defense contracts, and between public welfare and mid-level taxes, and between industrialization and unionization - all of those, I think, represent the same fundamental point, and it's one that I'll defend. France is a multiparty democracy. Its politics are a politics of compromise. France is not the most free-market, business-friendly state in Europe. That honor goes to Scandinavia. It is not the most militarized, state-directed economy in the world. That is the Adamite Order, or maybe the Taiping. It's somewhere in between: striking a balance between competing interests through democratic bargaining. That accounts for a lot of the "both-and" tone of the French economy.

But at a deeper level, I think the French economy also makes sense as a cohesive whole - since those factors you mentioned can also be paired up in different ways. Taxes are somewhat low because of high levels of unionization: since the French middle class is large and has more taxable income, you can tax everybody at lower levels and come up with the same amount of money. That public revenue, in turn, can fund further, aggressive industrialization (through defense contracts) and public welfare systems: it is a kind of virtuous cycle. A well-educated workforce with lots of industrial jobs then feeds back into worker unionization and democratic engagement. I don't think these features are as inconsistent as they seem; in fact, I think they are mutually reinforcing. As I understand it, that kind of outside-the-box thinking is part of the point in Alt-Div.

On the other hand, you are right about wine production, and agriculture more broadly. I will gladly cede that right to whomever wants it; the WRE seems like a plausible candidate. That is just a fair catch, especially since France is now likely more reliant on agricultural imports from India.

With regard to the Army, I hear you once again. I am glad we agree that, given France's strategic position, an extremely powerful army is a logical necessity. Thus, I accept your primary critique: it would make a lot of sense for the French General Staff to become somewhat overconfident under current circumstances.

That said, I want to draw a distinction between overconfidence and complacency. The French General Staff probably regards its army as invincible. That overconfidence in and of itself is a weakness. But it sees its army as invincible precisely because it is not complacent: because it is constantly running wargames, testing new equipment, innovating and changing. That creates issues of its own, as my app reflects. But it doesn't lead to an army resting on its laurels and failing to keep up with the times. This also ties into your point about how the French Army has both distinguished traditions and a high level of innovation: its traditional identity reflects its hubris and overconfidence, while its innovation reflects its refusal to fall into complacency.

So that's the compromise I would propose: overconfidence but not complacency. An army that underestimates its opponents, and makes mistakes accordingly, but continues to innovate constantly at the same time. I hope that preserves my essential concept for the French Army while incorporating your critique.

When it comes to the hard no's, I will yield on two of the three: I will scrap the creeping barrage, and scrap the poison gas. Your arguments for why the French Army would fail to come up with those are completely convincing. Machine guns, I think, are a different story. The machine guns that the French have integrated at the platoon level are the equivalent of the Madsen gun or the Benet-Mercie or the Chauchat, not of the (heavy, cumbersome) Maxim. IRL, in 1903, the French military was already talking about how "the machine gun must learn to walk." While nobody took that advice in our timeline, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that an alternative armed force could have done so. The technology already existed to make it happen.

With regard to the history, I am prepared to compromise again, but I want to raise an issue in return: Kai's app already includes a lot of French humiliation in this same period - POWs being marched to the border through jeering crowds, and so on. I think that balances out the embarrassment of the sack of Rome. That said, I will play up the Verian Wall campaign more, representing it as a brutal slog rather than a triumph. That's a fair critique. When it comes to Rome, here's what I propose: either both Kai and I tone down our embarrassment of each other during this period, or we agree - in essence - that one ill turn deserves another, and that each app paints this period as a pretty brutal time for the other nation. Personally, given the trauma of the era, I prefer the latter option. But I'll accept either.

I think that covers everything, but I might be wrong. Did I miss anything? What do you think?

Well, thank you for being willing to discuss this! Like I said, I do think that this France is one of the most interesting nations that we have, so I am more than willing to talk about everything in order to make sure that things will be alright xD

I also do not want it to seem like I'm particularly nitpicking France, but the amount of details included into your concept and app just create a lot more potential things to discuss than simpler apps

I do understand your position here, and you are explaining things pretty well. But the issue that I feel is at the core of this still persists - France seems to be just too perfect in some aspects. It's not the most free market, business-friendly state, but it most certainly outclasses Scandinavia economically. It is not the most militarized state in the world, but it is the most militarized developed nation - the Adamites are semi-industrialized, as are the Taiping, and the Taiping are recovering from a disastrous civil war. It is perhaps possible for such results too be reached, but this all makes France seem to be too perfect. Striking a balance through democratic bargaining is incredibly difficult is incredibly difficult. Industrialization and the ever increased demand for larger production rarely cooperated with workers' rights in this period in time, even more so in a state with such desperate military needs such as France, and yet France seems to have both. And it's not solely economically, this "both-and" tone seems to be present in many areas of the app. The Reformed Faith has somehow been a champion of innovation and achievement and supported the Enlightenment, and yet the concept of reason itself is bound to eventually clash with religious dogma and the concept of God. France is a republic, priding itself on its freedom and middle class, and yet there is a noble class.

Now, I am not here to nitpick, and I do think that some of these apparent contradictions are exactly why France is such an interesting concept - but I just wanted to try help you understand why so many people consider this France to be a bit overpowered. I don't want you to start changing your entire concept right now, obviously, that would be unreasonable, but I do feel like some things should be better explained in the app - but since the app is as impressive as it is I do realize that it would be a big effort.

So instead, what I am going to request for the sake of balance is that you mention another internal issue of France. It could be a rise of leftist views built around the successful workers' unions like real life France with its strike issues, it could be a modern movement that attempts to limit the church's influence in politics, it could be a divergence on church dogma dividing the nation - all of these are just random ideas that I came up with in like a minute, so feel free to ignore them. But I do think that adding another issue would be the best way to compromise - it wouldn't require a lot of edits and explanations, and it would serve as a balancing element, proving even more than France is an imperfect nation. My personal advice would be for it to be something present - it would give a bit more spice to any internal posts you might make, and would affect France as it is, unlike the birthrate decline that is unlikely to show any effects for as long as this roleplay will be ongoing.

The compromise of overconfidence but not complacency is acceptable. I still believe my part of the argument, the idea that France's strategic situation has improved significantly over the last decades, and I still feel like a certain complacency would be on the verge of developing, but considering how important the army is for your concept I will not push your issue. As long as you mention said overconfidence properly in the app it should be alright.

At the same time however, I would like you to also address the issue of the navy. As mentioned, it would most likely not be enough to control the Western Mediterranean, since your two neighbors there have and will most likely have stronger naval forces. Because of that, you should also mention the Western Roman navy, which should be your main challenger there. Continuing with the navy, I am most likely not going to include France in the dreadnought raffle, the reduced funding of the navy would disqualify it.

As for machine guns, I'm still not going to give up completely. Your argument is right, the French were experimenting with lighter machine guns, but like you said, no one was taking the advice, and all the machine guns that were produced up to WW1 were used defensively. I would however like to make a small parenthesis and mention the differences between the three models you mentioned - the Madsen would clearly be produced, the Benét–Mercié could be conceivably produced, the Chauchat however is too modern. Back to the subject at hand however, I am not going to bulge in terms of machine-guns due to OOC reasons. As the OP, I must take issues of balance and fairness into account. You already have perhaps the strongest ground force in Europe - I simply don't believe that it is necessary for it to be even stronger. Early WW1 combat of course proves how important machine guns can be, which is why having the French Army mass deploying machine guns and integrating them at a platoon level is just too overpowered. I am willing to concede limited production of the Benét–Mercié, the idea that the French would be experimenting with the Chauchat like they did in real life, and even the idea that your General Staff would be theorizing a more advanced use of such weapons, but in terms of the actual, practical situation with the troops and the deployment of machine guns, I do not think that the French Army should be any more advanced than the German Army of the era.

For the history, I do sort of understand your position, but I necessarily don't think that the two issues are comparable. On the one hand we have mocking of prisoners of war, while on the other hand we have more than just an embarrassment. We're talking about the sacking of your rival's capital. Not only would that result in irreparable damage for the city, but French troops occupying and sacking Rome would be an incredible victory for France, it would be reaching the heart of your enemy and pillaging it. I doesn't feel like a fair situation, especially since no French territory is even affected by these wars. Napoleon burned Moscow, but Tsar Alexander marched through Paris, you know?

I do think that you should remove the sacking, but if Kai's details of French humiliation are something that you do not like, you can add similar details about the behavior of the French with their prisoners of war to balance it out.

[Pasong Tirad]

Hi!

I've decided to join. I figure I can do a post a week, given this quarantine has me cooped up at home doing nothing but working and taking care of household chores. I'll have a work-in-progress application up by late afternoon my time (GMT+8).

Reservation

Nation Name: The Empire of Ethiopia (የኢትዮጵያ ንጉሠ ነገሥት መንግሥተ / Ye’ītiyop’iya Niguše Negešiti Menigišite), popularly known by Europe and the Americas as Abyssinia (አቢሲኒያ / Ābīsīnīya), and referred to colloquially by its own inhabitants as The Horn (ቀንድ / K’enidi).
Territory:

(ignore the yellow dots in Yemen - those will be claimed territory I do not control)

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

Updating my reservation to include parts of modern-day Ethiopia and Eritrea currently controlled by Tracian, which he has agreed to cede over to me.

If I do decide to push through with my application, would you be willing to let go of your holdings in Ethiopia and Eritrea? Shown there in light brown.

I was going to propose exactly that in the morning, but I forgot xD

I don't even remember how I ended up with thing - I think that I accidentally added them to the Roman territory in the past iteration, and you accepted it and included it into your history, but if you want them back here I'll certainly have them be Ethiopian

[Reverend Norv]

Please allow me a few days to consider whether I'm prepared to make those changes. I'll try to let you know in a fairly timely manner whether I think they're within the scope of my concept, or whether I'd rather bow out. I understand and respect your position, but I still need that much time to think.

[Tracian Empire]

Please allow me a few days to consider whether I'm prepared to make those changes. I'll try to let you know in a fairly timely manner whether I think they're within the scope of my concept, or whether I'd rather bow out. I understand and respect your position, but I still need that much time to think.

Well, I don't think that I'm asking that much. Like I said, addressing all the potential both-and situations is not something I'd following, I'm simply asking for there to be a second potential internal issue of France at this point in time. It shouldn't affect your concept that much, and if you do feel like it would upset your ideas, we can discuss potential solutions and find something that works. If you do not want the homeland to be affected, perhaps a more tense situation in India or the French colonies could be an option.

As for the military changes, it would still leave France with the best army in Europe and perhaps the world so far, and from a naval perspective, I was under the impression that I was clarifying a concept that already existed - was your idea that the French Navy would be able to control the Western Mediterranean against the Spanish or Western Roman fleets directly?

[Plzen]

It's not the most free market, business-friendly state, but it most certainly outclasses Scandinavia economically.

Scandinavia also has a population a small fraction of France's.

Per capita, Denmark's industrial output in this era IRL was one of the highest in Western Europe and I intend to expand on that to make Scandinavia one of the wealthiest states in the world, but in terms of the national total, it just doesn't have the size to be a major economic power.

I haven't written up my history yet, but suffice to say that our Dutch Republic-style global golden era was way back in the 1600s - nothing remains of that economic might except a few aging institutions.

[Akkaga]

Last question, is central America and Cuba owned by Angelond or Ansburg? Is Ansburg still joining because I thought they were that central american state.

[Tracian Empire]

Last question, is central America and Cuba owned by Angelond or Ansburg? Is Ansburg still joining because I thought they were that central american state.

Huh, it appears to be my mistake, I must have switched up colors at some point. Cuba is owned by Angelond, Central America is reserved by the Ansburg app.

[Akkaga]

Last question, is central America and Cuba owned by Angelond or Ansburg? Is Ansburg still joining because I thought they were that central american state.

Huh, it appears to be my mistake, I must have switched up colors at some point. Cuba is owned by Angelond, Central America is reserved by the Ansburg app.

Thank you so much, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something major.

[The Felan Federation]

Last question, is central America and Cuba owned by Angelond or Ansburg? Is Ansburg still joining because I thought they were that central american state.

Huh, it appears to be my mistake, I must have switched up colors at some point. Cuba is owned by Angelond, Central America is reserved by the Ansburg app.

Still waiting on the subject of Spain.

Can I ignore them or will be Finland coming to join us?

You said yesterday you'd remove any inactive reservations?

[The Felan Federation]

Please allow me a few days to consider whether I'm prepared to make those changes. I'll try to let you know in a fairly timely manner whether I think they're within the scope of my concept, or whether I'd rather bow out. I understand and respect your position, but I still need that much time to think.

There is one thing, if I may offer my two cents Mister France.

You mentioned a lot about 'compromise' but as we know about all humans - we are rather...bad at compromising unless we have a...unifying agenda or common interest. Wouldn't so much need for compromise lead to political gridlock? As the army wants more funding, the workers want more benefits and the nobles want more rights and privileges?

Just an idea, I thought to throw out there.

[Tracian Empire]

Please allow me a few days to consider whether I'm prepared to make those changes. I'll try to let you know in a fairly timely manner whether I think they're within the scope of my concept, or whether I'd rather bow out. I understand and respect your position, but I still need that much time to think.

There is one thing, if I may offer my two cents Mister France.

You mentioned a lot about 'compromise' but as we know about all humans - we are rather...bad at compromising unless we have a...unifying agenda or common interest. Wouldn't so much need for compromise lead to political gridlock? As the army wants more funding, the workers want more benefits and the nobles want more rights and privileges?

Just an idea, I thought to throw out there.

Why did you post this twice? It's a bit confusing, I stood for a minute swearing that I had seen this post before

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Please allow me a few days to consider whether I'm prepared to make those changes. I'll try to let you know in a fairly timely manner whether I think they're within the scope of my concept, or whether I'd rather bow out. I understand and respect your position, but I still need that much time to think.

There is one thing, if I may offer my two cents Mister France.

You mentioned a lot about 'compromise' but as we know about all humans - we are rather...bad at compromising unless we have a...unifying agenda or common interest. Wouldn't so much need for compromise lead to political gridlock? As the army wants more funding, the workers want more benefits and the nobles want more rights and privileges?

Just an idea, I thought to throw out there.

Yeah and on my side of things I cant post unless Angelond communicates with us. Is anyone in touch with their user?

[Kargintina the Third]

Full Nation Name : Chobanid Empire
Majority/Official Culture : Persian is the main culture. Arabs, Kurds and Turks all exist as minorities within the Empire
Territorial Core : Iraq and Iran
Territorial Claim : Kuwait, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan
Capital City : Isfahan
Population : 16,000,000

Government Type : Absolute Monarchy
Government Ideology/Policies : Islamic Theocracy, Islam is directly involved in the government. Religious education is directly involved in childhood education.
Government Focus : Encouraging the nation's youth to follow Allah, spreading the Shah's way of the faith to all the Muslim lands
Head of State : Shah Temurtas XVI
Head of Government : Shah Temurtas XVI
Government Description : Absolute Monarchy, the Shah has total control over the Chobanid lands

Majority/State Religion : Chobanist Sunni Islam
Religious Description : Sunni Islam is the dynasty's official religion, however Zoroastrianism, Nestorian Christianity and Tengriism all exist as minorities within the Empire.

Economic Ideologies : Iqta, a form of Islamic tax farming; similar to feudalism
Major Production : Farming is the main good of the Chobanid lands currently as oil has not yet been discovered in their lands, however it is highly rumored to exist under the sands of Iraq and Khuzestan.
Economic Description : A very outdated system, ruling landlords called muqti control large swathes of land and farm off their serfs, however unlike feudalism they cannot become directly involved with the lives of their subjects. It is made clear that muqtis hold no claim on the peasants/subjects other than that of collecting from them in a proper manner the due land tax that has been assigned to them. When the revenue has been realized from them, those subjects should remain secure from any demands of the muqtis in respect of their persons, wealth, families, lands and goods.

Development: Semi-industrialized
Development Description : It is heavily farm-focused because the Shah does not see fit to finish investing in industry, preferring to focus on the iqta system to sustain the economy. This is quickly growing outdated as the peasants have started to murmur of revolt.

Army Description : The army is moderately trained for a non-European nation. While most equipment and uniforms are outdated, the army has historically relied on fanaticism in their defense of the Shah. However recently this has changed, especially among higher ranking officers. About 54,328 enlisted and 13,425 officers.
Army Weakness : Officer Corps is becoming increasingly disloyal and many enlisted are beginning to hate their Shah as many of their families trapped in perpetual serfdom.
Naval Description : Shit-tier, a few destroyers and patrol ships. Nothing really to write home about. Morale situation is same as Army. About 12,630 enlisted and 3,245 officers
Naval Weakness : Barely any ships and piss poor morale.
Further Military Description : Military officers are usually the non-eldest son of muqti who can afford to send their children to school. However as their families complain of the Shah's misdoings, the religious indoctrination at the academies isn't enough to convince officers to not hate their sovereign.

National Goals : Shah's goals are to purge the Officer Corps and get rid of all dissent as well as putting down any thought of rebellion amongst the peasants. Many people's goal including several high-ranking army officers plan on dispatching the Shah and starting a new government.
National Issues : Either the Shah has to go or make radical changes, and he's not willing to do that...
National Figures of Interest : Malek I, the founder of the current dynasty is taught to children in school to be revered as God's second greatest messenger behind Mohammed but that has been failing in recent generations.
National Ambition/Aspirations : The Shah's big aspiration would be to conquest all of the Arabian Peninsula as well as Central Asia, he people's goal is to dispose of him and start a new society.

History : The year is 1335, and Abu Sa'id Bahadur Khan, last ruler of the Ilkhanate; has died. His death left the region of Persia in a state of chaos as small kingdoms sprang up all over. One of these being the Chobanids, a descendent family of the Suldus clan of Mongolia. in 1347, Malek Astar, brother of ruler Malek Ashraf succeeded in taking the city of Baghdad from the Jalairids and then the city of Isfahan from the Injuids. However, Malek had to abandon his home region of Azerbaijan due to the advancing Golden Horde taking the region. Temurtas eventually succeeded his father and became a much more fair ruler. Temurtas expanded his dynasty's rule over Northern Iran. However further expansion was stunted by the Black Death which ravaged the land of Persia and caused Temurtas to cease his Empire's growth and focus on internal affairs. In order to deal with the crisis, he created a whole cabinet of advisors which remain in place until this day. Temurtas was succeeded by Shah Malek II who was more warlike. He did battle with Timur and prevented him from conquering Persia. In response to the Timurid invasion, he rode his army to Samarkand and sacked the city, bringing home many riches and solidifying the Chobanid dynasty as one of the strongest in the region.

After this, the Persian people had grown tired of warfare. Temurtas II, son of Malek II focused entirely on internal affairs and improving his people's lives. He reformed the schools of the nation and had them teach children (Noble children) to revere Malek I as God's second greatest messenger since Mohammad. He reformed the chaotic Persian economy into an Iqta system, a traditional Islamic form of feudalism.

The dynast had it's first crisis in 1512 when a religious crisis began. It was discovered that Malek IV, the likely heir to his ailing father Khassein was secretly a Nestorian Christian. The nobles of the land, nervous he would harm their power and infect the peasants without religious fervor rallied behind Afshan, Malek's cousin. They decisively defeated Malek at the battle of Baghdad and placed her on the thrown. Malek is believed to have gone into hiding somewhere in India under a new name and was never seen again. Once again the land of Persia was solidly under Islamic rule. Afshan's son, Temurtas V; built massive mosques in Baghdad, Ctesiphon and Qom to inspire religious piety among his subjects. He founded the new Chobanist branch of Sunni Islam, a new version centered around the Chobanid dynasty.

As Europe rushed to colonize the new world the Chobanid Empire banned it's subjects from sailing away. As the Shah's saw it, there was no need for true followers of the faith to be sailing off to a new land to be poisoned by other faiths, and all Serfs needed to serve their time anyways, they didn't have time to be sailing off to a new land. The 1700s were a radical time in the Empire, as a parliament was officially created in 1724. However this didn't last long. The current Shah who has authorized it was killed in a assassination likely orchestrated by his son. His son took the thrown ordered them all arrested in 1728 as traitors to the faith and they were burned at the stake as heretics. Never again was the Shah's rule to be questioned or limited, as he was a messenger from Allah himself.

In the 1800s the Empire began rapidly militarizing, preparing for a potential European invasion. Factories were built in major cities and it seemed Persia was destined to become a modern nation. This didn't last however. As the invasion never came, the Empire stopped most of it's industrialization efforts. It seemed hope would soon arrive for many peasants trapped in serfdom but it never came. The Empire failed to modernize further and the few factories built slowly began to rust. Now the Chobanids are hardly industrialized except in major cities. The Shah saw industry as an affront against God and stopped it. Due to this, the country has quickly become outdated and failing. The Serfs toil endlessly for nothing in return. The military is a shell of it's former self, with most soldiers unlikely to even wish to fight in the event of a war. The current Shah, Temurtas XVI is extremely unpopular as he lives a lavish life in Isfahan. He has greatly raised taxes on even the muqti themselves, wishing to gather himself as much wealth as he can. It seems the fall of the current dynasty rapidly approaches, and it seems predictable what happens next...
RP Sample:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=481718&p=36804287&hilit=Boris#p36804287

#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

Updated it to be semi-industrialized

[Tracian Empire]

Huh, it appears to be my mistake, I must have switched up colors at some point. Cuba is owned by Angelond, Central America is reserved by the Ansburg app.

Still waiting on the subject of Spain.

Can I ignore them or will be Finland coming to join us?

You said yesterday you'd remove any inactive reservations?

Yes, which is why I removed Spain's reservation - Finland is too busy to join. I forgot to say it in the OOC however, apologies.

You can work under the assumption that the area was colonized by Spain - you could perhaps talk with the German player, Exil, about the possibility of German colonists/a German takeover.

[Tracian Empire]

There is one thing, if I may offer my two cents Mister France.

You mentioned a lot about 'compromise' but as we know about all humans - we are rather...bad at compromising unless we have a...unifying agenda or common interest. Wouldn't so much need for compromise lead to political gridlock? As the army wants more funding, the workers want more benefits and the nobles want more rights and privileges?

Just an idea, I thought to throw out there.

Yeah and on my side of things I cant post unless Angelond communicates with us. Is anyone in touch with their user?

Angelond gets a bit more breathing time since an app was started, but I will send the player a TG today and remove their app tomorrow night if there is no answer.

[Tracian Empire]

Huh, it appears to be my mistake, I must have switched up colors at some point. Cuba is owned by Angelond, Central America is reserved by the Ansburg app.

Thank you so much, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something major.

No problem, I'm sorry for the confusion!

So you want to reserve Mexico?

[Akkaga]

Thank you so much, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something major.

No problem, I'm sorry for the confusion!

So you want to reserve Mexico?

I would love to. I'll start on an app later tonight.

[Tracian Empire]

No problem, I'm sorry for the confusion!

So you want to reserve Mexico?

I would love to. I'll start on an app later tonight.

Could you make an official reservation please? It helps to properly keep track of things xD

[Albennia]

Angelond gets a bit more breathing time since an app was started, but I will send the player a TG today and remove their app tomorrow night if there is no answer.

if this happens......

Reservation

Nation Name: Kingdom of Northumbria (Cinric o Norþimer)
Territory: Southern Scotland, Northern England
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

[Kargintina the Third]

Angelond gets a bit more breathing time since an app was started, but I will send the player a TG today and remove their app tomorrow night if there is no answer.

if this happens......

Reservation

Nation Name: Kingdom of Northumbria
Territory: Southern Scotland, Northern England
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

Lol if this happens I’m dropping Persia and doing a British Isles nation lol

[Plzen]

Reservation

Nation Name: Kingdom of Northumbria (Cinric o Norþimer)
Territory: Southern Scotland, Northern England
#AltDiv (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)
*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP board reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

Break the British Isles into pieces and make Scandinavia the premier naval power of the north?

I'd not be upset with this.

[Nouveau Quebecois]

wait what are "recognized great persons" and how do you become one