The Cousins' War [Ended, Closed]

[The united American-Isreali empire]

made a task force (its still wip keep in mind, I can edit it as you need) do give me your view on it, and if i need to edit things. im still doing the wip still on it. thanks again for any feedback!

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1320930

[The Green Union]

The true concern OP is having here is not even directly related to force sizes. It's more that people who enter a thread with the immediate intention of deploying five divisions and an entire air force worth of planes are the type of people who will negatively impact the story.

Take Americae Roma's last post, which uses up much more space with its collection of military porn gifs and lists of stuff beings than it does with actual text about their position. This can be read as self-glorifying, especially when the gifs show some overwhelming firepower which ignores both how they got into position to attack and how they are contending with enemy defences (using the tactics shown, pretty much all those ships and planes are going to get knocked out by modern ASBMs and SAMs).

In short, this comes back to the kind of play being encouraged and discouraged here. By placing a hard cap, OP is hoping to discourage people from doing what the last few entrants have and just sending invasion forces right off the bat. If you are from out of Markion, you have to go through a lot of trouble just to get a few troops here. You cannot seriously sway the war through brute force, since the countries directly neighbouring the warzone will be able to bring down exponentially greater firepower. Instead, this setup encourages you to make the most of your limited resources in creative ways. Take your time, weigh all options, and try to apply yourself in a way which best benefits your allies. That role doesn't even need to be military if you don't want it to be.

Oh, and be sure to fully examine the situation before committing. If you unconditionally support one side or the other, you cannot after the fact claim ignorance of their dark side.

[The united American-Isreali empire]

The true concern OP is having here is not even directly related to force sizes. It's more that people who enter a thread with the immediate intention of deploying five divisions and an entire air force worth of planes are the type of people who will negatively impact the story.

Take Americae Roma's last post, which uses up much more space with its collection of military porn gifs and lists of stuff beings than it does with actual text about their position. This can be read as self-glorifying, especially when the gifs show some overwhelming firepower which ignores both how they got into position to attack and how they are contending with enemy defences (using the tactics shown, pretty much all those ships and planes are going to get knocked out by modern ASBMs and SAMs).

In short, this comes back to the kind of play being encouraged and discouraged here. By placing a hard cap, OP is hoping to discourage people from doing what the last few entrants have and just sending invasion forces right off the bat. If you are from out of Markion, you have to go through a lot of trouble just to get a few troops here. You cannot seriously sway the war through brute force, since the countries directly neighbouring the warzone will be able to bring down exponentially greater firepower. Instead, this setup encourages you to make the most of your limited resources in creative ways. Take your time, weigh all options, and try to apply yourself in a way which best benefits your allies. That role doesn't even need to be military if you don't want it to be.

Oh, and be sure to fully examine the situation before committing. If you unconditionally support one side or the other, you cannot after the fact claim ignorance of their dark side.

I am editing the task force, is it fairly made so far ya think? I am trying to make it nice. the forces i would be sending would be some of the finest forces I would have. the "death corp" are a PMC I made for doing the best job and clearing out areas effectively.

[Eochora]

Nation Name: Eochora
Alignment: Anti-NLFN (Eochora is however a third party)
Purpose & Intention: To covertly destabilize the NLFN with the intent of disrupting the unity between the member states.
What you are bringing to the War/Order of Battle: A few dozen (~36) commandos to infiltrate the NLFN.

[Arcadian States and Commonwealths]

Nation Name: Eochora
Alignment: Anti-NLFN (Eochora is however a third party)
Purpose & Intention: To covertly destabilize the NLFN with the intent of disrupting the unity between the member states.
What you are bringing to the War/Order of Battle: A few dozen (~36) commandos to infiltrate the NLFN.

You are more than welcome begin posting. Please ask me for any information you might need regarding your missions. I will ask you not to simply teleport your agents into the country, your first thing should be planning your covert way of getting into the country and preparing ideally.

[Hungramy]

Nation Name:Imperial Empire Hungramy
Alignment: Neutral, CDP leaning
Purpose & Intention: Foreign Aid/lend lease for CDP military (NLFN civilans will receive aid for basic needs for life)and protection of CDP, NLFN and International civilians( Will violate borders of both CDP and NLFN or anyone trying to stop Imperial forces if denied). Will get militarily involved if Imperial forces or refugees/asylum seekers under Imperial protection are attack unprovoked.
What you are bringing to the War/Order of Battle:

Military assistance for civilian protection/Foreign aid

1 Imperial HQ, Imperial Command (150 men)
- 100 Imperial Guardsmen
- 3 logistics teams( 5 men each one)
- 3 communications team ( 5 men each one)
- 2 intelligence team (6 men each one)
- Commander, Major Zsolt Lorincz
- Foreign Aid officer, Major Karoly Mok
- Personnel officer, Captain Gyuri Stollar
- Intelligence officer, Captain Szilveszter Baksa
- Operations officer, Captain Gazsi Gaal
- Logistics officer, First Lieutenant Alajos Feher
- Plans officer, Captain Balint Cseh
- Communications officer, Second Lieutenant Gergo Timar
3 Imperial Guard Company( 130 men each one)
- 80 Imperial Infantrymen
- 10 Anti-tank riflemen
- 1 logistics squad (10 men)
- 2 Reconnaissance squad( 7 men each one)
- 6 Imperial Officers
1 Imperial Light Armored Company ( 140 men, 15 Light tanks, 5 Anti-tank guns)
- 4 men per tank
- 4 men per anti-tank gun
- 1 logistics squad (10 men)
- 3 Reconnaissance squad( 12 men 3 tanks each one)
- 6 Imperial Officers
- 40 Support Infantry
- 1 Engineers squad (8 men)
- 1 Maintenance squad (6 men)
1 Imperial Recon Company ( 80 men, 6 Armored Cars and 6 Light Tanks)
- 4 men per tank
- 4 men per car
- 3 Motorized Reconnaissance squads( 48 men, 2 Armored cars and 2 Light Tanks each one)
- 1 logistics squad (8 men)
- 1 Light Leg Reconnaissance squad( 10 men)
- 5 Imperial Officers
- 1 Engineers Squad ( 9 men)
- 2 Maintenance Squad (5 men)
5 Motorized Transport Platoons (50 men and 25 trucks each one)
- Used for movement of supplies and personnel or refugees
3 Field Medics platoons( 35+3 men, 10 trucks each one)
- 6 Combat medics
- 3 civilian doctors( not normally used)
- 1 logistics squad (10 men)
- 10 Imperial Guardsman
- 1 Reconnaissance squad( 7 men)
- 2 Imperial Officers

15 Cargo ships( 10,000–14,500 TEU capacity)( Will increase tonnage goods and arms at request)
- 80,000~ tonnes of foodstuff
- 15,000 Small arms
-- 5000 rifles
-- 5000 SMGs
-- 1500 LMGs
-- 3500 handguns
- 10,000,000 Imperial Marks
- 5000 Support equipment
-- 1500 Tactical Radios
-- 3000 parachutes
-- 500 military trucks
3 aircraft carriers with 70 wing aircraft (For escort of cargo ships or extraction of Imperial military personnel and/or civilians/refugees seeking asylum)
24 Destroyers( For escort of cargo ships or extraction of Imperial military personnel and/or civilians/refugees seeking asylum)

[The Green Union]

( Will violate borders of both CDP and NLFN or anyone trying to stop Imperial forces if denied). Will get militarily involved if Imperial forces or refugees/asylum seekers under Imperial protection are attack unprovoked.

Sounds like this is already provoking all sides. How would Hungramy plan to get into the warzone without allied ports or airfields to land at? Will there be a full blown invasion, fighting both sides?

[Hungramy]

( Will violate borders of both CDP and NLFN or anyone trying to stop Imperial forces if denied). Will get militarily involved if Imperial forces or refugees/asylum seekers under Imperial protection are attack unprovoked.

Sounds like this is already provoking all sides. How would Hungramy plan to get into the warzone without allied ports or airfields to land at? Will there be a full blown invasion, fighting both sides?

Once I get to my first ic post the empire will be requesting access of naval ports and airfields, and this is ooc so I don't mind saying I'll invade one of the belligerents ofcourse like I said this is ooc and I want to take a different role then full blown invasion. What I aim for though is to try peacekeeping and foreign aid or lend leasing, plus this is the first time I joined a rp that takes in account of things like logistics and the like and I thought time to learn since I'm getting back into nation rping.

[The Green Union]

Once I get to my first ic post the empire will be requesting access of naval ports and airfields, and this is ooc so I don't mind saying I'll invade one of the belligerents ofcourse like I said this is ooc and I want to take a different role then full blown invasion. What I aim for though is to try peacekeeping and foreign aid or lend leasing, plus this is the first time I joined a rp that takes in account of things like logistics and the like and I thought time to learn since I'm getting back into nation rping.

All good. I'm just here to urge caution. Markion operates on the HyperEarth NS model, meaning that the distances to travel are going to far surpass real world distances. OP has said that, as a general rule, you should count on circumnavigating the real Earth five times before being able to travel from your region to Markion in the NS Earth.

Obviously, this complicates things a lot. But since we don't have hard numbers to work with yet, I would suggest starting by answering the question of how the journey itself will be made. Does your nation have a specialized inter-regional ship or aircraft, probably nuclear powered? Or is it using its good reputation to get refueling at friendly ports along the way? What about when the group arrives in Markion? Who can you convince to let you use their ports or airports?

It's a very complex matter, and one which a lot of players so far have simply handwaved by saying things like "I have bases next to Markion." But if you're looking to do some interesting and challenging logistics RP, look no further.

[Hungramy]

All good. I'm just here to urge caution. Markion operates on the HyperEarth NS model, meaning that the distances to travel are going to far surpass real world distances. OP has said that, as a general rule, you should count on circumnavigating the real Earth five times before being able to travel from your region to Markion in the NS Earth.

Obviously, this complicates things a lot. But since we don't have hard numbers to work with yet, I would suggest starting by answering the question of how the journey itself will be made. Does your nation have a specialized inter-regional ship or aircraft, probably nuclear powered? Or is it using its good reputation to get refueling at friendly ports along the way? What about when the group arrives in Markion? Who can you convince to let you use their ports or airports?

It's a very complex matter, and one which a lot of players so far have simply handwaved by saying things like "I have bases next to Markion." But if you're looking to do some interesting and challenging logistics RP, look no further.

Nuclear powered? short answer yes, good reputation with the region powers? short answer doubtful, unless someone wants to have pre-establish relations. About the arrive of my forces to the region am still going over a few ideas, but i may be overthinking it. And ill be either paying for the use of the ports and airfield or maybe use international pressure(protecting civilians from the horrors of war and bring stability to a war torn nation blah blah blah) to allow the docking and landing rights, there's other ways as well but only using the 2 examples. But at the moment I need to read the last page of the IC to have a full understanding and i am waiting on OP to say if i may join or not as well before i post anything.

[Arcadian States and Commonwealths]

Nation Name:Imperial Empire Hungramy
Alignment: Neutral, CDP leaning
Purpose & Intention: Foreign Aid/lend lease for CDP military (NLFN civilans will receive aid for basic needs for life)and protection of CDP, NLFN and International civilians( Will violate borders of both CDP and NLFN or anyone trying to stop Imperial forces if denied). Will get militarily involved if Imperial forces or refugees/asylum seekers under Imperial protection are attack unprovoked.
What you are bringing to the War/Order of Battle:

Military assistance for civilian protection/Foreign aid

1 Imperial HQ, Imperial Command (150 men)
- 100 Imperial Guardsmen
- 3 logistics teams( 5 men each one)
- 3 communications team ( 5 men each one)
- 2 intelligence team (6 men each one)
- Commander, Major Zsolt Lorincz
- Foreign Aid officer, Major Karoly Mok
- Personnel officer, Captain Gyuri Stollar
- Intelligence officer, Captain Szilveszter Baksa
- Operations officer, Captain Gazsi Gaal
- Logistics officer, First Lieutenant Alajos Feher
- Plans officer, Captain Balint Cseh
- Communications officer, Second Lieutenant Gergo Timar
3 Imperial Guard Company( 130 men each one)
- 80 Imperial Infantrymen
- 10 Anti-tank riflemen
- 1 logistics squad (10 men)
- 2 Reconnaissance squad( 7 men each one)
- 6 Imperial Officers
1 Imperial Light Armored Company ( 140 men, 15 Light tanks, 5 Anti-tank guns)
- 4 men per tank
- 4 men per anti-tank gun
- 1 logistics squad (10 men)
- 3 Reconnaissance squad( 12 men 3 tanks each one)
- 6 Imperial Officers
- 40 Support Infantry
- 1 Engineers squad (8 men)
- 1 Maintenance squad (6 men)
1 Imperial Recon Company ( 80 men, 6 Armored Cars and 6 Light Tanks)
- 4 men per tank
- 4 men per car
- 3 Motorized Reconnaissance squads( 48 men, 2 Armored cars and 2 Light Tanks each one)
- 1 logistics squad (8 men)
- 1 Light Leg Reconnaissance squad( 10 men)
- 5 Imperial Officers
- 1 Engineers Squad ( 9 men)
- 2 Maintenance Squad (5 men)
5 Motorized Transport Platoons (50 men and 25 trucks each one)
- Used for movement of supplies and personnel or refugees
3 Field Medics platoons( 35+3 men, 10 trucks each one)
- 6 Combat medics
- 3 civilian doctors( not normally used)
- 1 logistics squad (10 men)
- 10 Imperial Guardsman
- 1 Reconnaissance squad( 7 men)
- 2 Imperial Officers

15 Cargo ships( 10,000–14,500 TEU capacity)( Will increase tonnage goods and arms at request)
- 80,000~ tonnes of foodstuff
- 15,000 Small arms
-- 5000 rifles
-- 5000 SMGs
-- 1500 LMGs
-- 3500 handguns
- 10,000,000 Imperial Marks
- 5000 Support equipment
-- 1500 Tactical Radios
-- 3000 parachutes
-- 500 military trucks
3 aircraft carriers with 70 wing aircraft (For escort of cargo ships or extraction of Imperial military personnel and/or civilians/refugees seeking asylum)
24 Destroyers( For escort of cargo ships or extraction of Imperial military personnel and/or civilians/refugees seeking asylum)

This is fantastic, absolutely what people in the thread should be aiming for when it comes to force size. The only thing I would say is lower down that fleet size 24 destroyers is a massive fleet for just an escort. Also, is the equipment list what you are bringing for your forces or the CDP? Or civilians?

[Hungramy]

This is fantastic, absolutely what people in the thread should be aiming for when it comes to force size. The only thing I would say is lower down that fleet size 24 destroyers is a massive fleet for just an escort. Also, is the equipment list what you are bringing for your forces or the CDP? Or civilians?

Weapons are for the CDP and the foodstuff is for civilian use, thought it would be a little much to list every tiny detail. And does 12 Destroyers sound good?

[Americae Roma]

To Arcadian States, I have edited my post, you can find it in the IC thread.

[Arcadian States and Commonwealths]

This is fantastic, absolutely what people in the thread should be aiming for when it comes to force size. The only thing I would say is lower down that fleet size 24 destroyers is a massive fleet for just an escort. Also, is the equipment list what you are bringing for your forces or the CDP? Or civilians?

Weapons are for the CDP and the foodstuff is for civilian use, thought it would be a little much to list every tiny detail. And does 12 Destroyers sound good?

6 would be preferable but I can compromise at 9 if you really want to. Ideally, you shouldn't have started posting until I specifically stated that you were allowed but feel free to start posting when that fleet size has been cut down.

[The united American-Isreali empire]

To Arcadian States, I have edited my post, you can find it in the IC thread.

Do read my task force 144, it will help you with your numbers. I was told 35,000 max for troopers. Granted if i lost em all I'd send more as my Branch's are more numourus. But you get the idea.

Task force 144

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1320930

[The Green Union]

Do read my task force 144, it will help you with your numbers. I was told 35,000 max for troopers. Granted if i lost em all I'd send more as my Branch's are more numourus. But you get the idea.

Task force 144

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1320930

The point of a hard cap is so that people don't go around number wanking. We've had people in the past who immediately hit the cap, threw all their troops in to die, and then sent in reinforcements to hit the cap again. This is generally seen as an attempt to exploit a loophole and historically hasn't gone over well with our OPs.

The real question I would be asking is how your country, no matter how powerful, is going to maintain any substantial presence 200 000 km away from the homeland. It seems like you're sending a wide range of stuff, and a lot of it is on the heavy and/or obsolete side. This is going to increase the number of specialized engineers and spare parts you need compared to a dedicated expeditionary force using only light vehicles and the bare minimum of personnel.

[The united American-Isreali empire]

Do read my task force 144, it will help you with your numbers. I was told 35,000 max for troopers. Granted if i lost em all I'd send more as my Branch's are more numourus. But you get the idea.

Task force 144

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1320930

The point of a hard cap is so that people don't go around number wanking. We've had people in the past who immediately hit the cap, threw all their troops in to die, and then sent in reinforcements to hit the cap again. This is generally seen as an attempt to exploit a loophole and historically hasn't gone over well with our OPs.

The real question I would be asking is how your country, no matter how powerful, is going to maintain any substantial presence 200 000 km away from the homeland. It seems like you're sending a wide range of stuff, and a lot of it is on the heavy and/or obsolete side. This is going to increase the number of specialized engineers and spare parts you need compared to a dedicated expeditionary force using only light vehicles and the bare minimum of personnel.

We will manage, i have figured that. Thats why I have flying and shipping in all i am. But yes it is. I'm planning on useing it all for a reason.

[The JVP]

The point of a hard cap is so that people don't go around number wanking. We've had people in the past who immediately hit the cap, threw all their troops in to die, and then sent in reinforcements to hit the cap again. This is generally seen as an attempt to exploit a loophole and historically hasn't gone over well with our OPs.

The real question I would be asking is how your country, no matter how powerful, is going to maintain any substantial presence 200 000 km away from the homeland. It seems like you're sending a wide range of stuff, and a lot of it is on the heavy and/or obsolete side. This is going to increase the number of specialized engineers and spare parts you need compared to a dedicated expeditionary force using only light vehicles and the bare minimum of personnel.

We will manage, i have figured that. Thats why I have flying and shipping in all i am. But yes it is. I'm planning on useing it all for a reason.

have you counted up the total number of troops you sent? By my count you are well over 40K. and this is not even counting your Air forces and naval units.

Since Naval units can be seen as a support element, and would normal not engage in the pand battle, then we can maybe over them. But their fighter groups would count.

I think what you are not understanding is that to move that much equipment, is going to be a large undertaking. an M270A1 alone is best shipped on a ship. yes you can fly it over, But you hey 1 maybe 2 of them in a jets. Then you have their support elements, M577, Along with the HEMTTs needed to transport the Ammo pods. Now you need to add in the M88s to recover a launch when it breaks down, along with other vechicals your maintenance units will need.

And we have not even touched on the space needed for pods that these Laucherd are firing, the fuel they need, the daily oil it needs cause these things drip like a a broken Dam. Also the fuel trucks to move the fuel. and this is only the elements that support a launcher unit. We have not even touched on the Fire finder radar units used for counter fire. That's 2 trucks plus 3 trailers, Then the 13Fs needs their trucks, so they can scout targets.

Your TOC needs its vechicals, not you add in the comments units their comms dishes, cooks and the K units, and now we touch on tanks.

Take what I said about the M270A1 launcher, and apply here. Also do that for the other types of tanks, cause they need different support elements.
Now we talk infantry, their support elements.

You see where I'm getting at? Yes, you maybe some kind of big power in your region, but you are under taking a LARGE movement of troops and supplies. Just saying, we will manage is not going to cut it. Those of us In Arls have complied to the rules set out. You seem to be greatly trying to work around them.

[The united American-Isreali empire]

We will manage, i have figured that. Thats why I have flying and shipping in all i am. But yes it is. I'm planning on useing it all for a reason.

have you counted up the total number of troops you sent? By my count you are well over 40K. and this is not even counting your Air forces and naval units.

Since Naval units can be seen as a support element, and would normal not engage in the pand battle, then we can maybe over them. But their fighter groups would count.

I think what you are not understanding is that to move that much equipment, is going to be a large undertaking. an M270A1 alone is best shipped on a ship. yes you can fly it over, But you hey 1 maybe 2 of them in a jets. Then you have their support elements, M577, Along with the HEMTTs needed to transport the Ammo pods. Now you need to add in the M88s to recover a launch when it breaks down, along with other vechicals your maintenance units will need.

And we have not even touched on the space needed for pods that these Laucherd are firing, the fuel they need, the daily oil it needs cause these things drip like a a broken Dam. Also the fuel trucks to move the fuel. and this is only the elements that support a launcher unit. We have not even touched on the Fire finder radar units used for counter fire. That's 2 trucks plus 3 trailers, Then the 13Fs needs their trucks, so they can scout targets.

Your TOC needs its vechicals, not you add in the comments units their comms dishes, cooks and the K units, and now we touch on tanks.

Take what I said about the M270A1 launcher, and apply here. Also do that for the other types of tanks, cause they need different support elements.
Now we talk infantry, their support elements.

You see where I'm getting at? Yes, you maybe some kind of big power in your region, but you are under taking a LARGE movement of troops and supplies. Just saying, we will manage is not going to cut it. Those of us In Arls have complied to the rules set out. You seem to be greatly trying to work around them.

So do i cut my air units? And i can add the needed support element.

[The JVP]

Even without the air, you are already past the cap set by Op.

[The JVP]

May I also confused you, cause I was talking more logistics. But just looking at your forces and the number of personal needed. You are way over. Let's take your 1000 M270A1.

At 3 people per Launcher, you are at 3000 personal

Now your tanks, you are looking at 16+K

this is 19k of you 35000 limit.

the M198 needs a crew of 9, that's 45k alone, way over the limit.

So just these few elements alone Put you at 64k almost double the limit. Just a quick look at the rest of your stuff, an I can safely say you are over 100K in Land forces, without support elements. Your Air force is a whole other can of worms.

Plus, the time it would take to get that equipment into theater, would be a very huge burden on your navy. You would need a lot of ships.

[The united American-Isreali empire]

Even without the air, you are already past the cap set by Op.

How much would I need to reduce, i was gonna keep a lot of the stuff in the UAIE till I need extra forces. And yes i was planning om adding to navy ranks for shipping and mantaining forces in the area .

[The JVP]

Even without the air, you are already past the cap set by Op.

How much would I need to reduce, i was gonna keep a lot of the stuff in the UAIE till I need extra forces. And yes i was planning om adding to navy ranks for shipping and mantaining forces in the area .

That's the thing. OP has capped us none Markion players at 35k.

So you need to get down to 35K, minus Maval support elements, and none combat support elements.

Bring over that amount of forces, will be very taxing to be with.

At this point, you are pretty much trying to send an invasion force

[The united American-Isreali empire]

How much would I need to reduce, i was gonna keep a lot of the stuff in the UAIE till I need extra forces. And yes i was planning om adding to navy ranks for shipping and mantaining forces in the area .

That's the thing. OP has capped us none Markion players at 35k.

So you need to get down to 35K, minus Maval support elements, and none combat support elements.

Bring over that amount of forces, will be very taxing to be with.

At this point, you are pretty much trying to send an invasion force

so basically less ground vehicles and and air vehicles? so no engineers? i figured they may be needed idk the land ect, so i was planning on being able to use some.

[The Green Union]

How much would I need to reduce, i was gonna keep a lot of the stuff in the UAIE till I need extra forces. And yes i was planning om adding to navy ranks for shipping and mantaining forces in the area .

JVP has explaining how much you probably need to cut down, but this is still going to leave you with a smallish (though bigger than some entire Markion militaries) force. UAIE absolutely cannot win this war on its own, and there is no scenario where your forces will arrive and immediately smash through the NLFN lines. There are much larger local forces that have been trying to do just that for months.

So I would again suggest specializing UAIE's forces. Find a niche where you can focus all your efforts, that your allies are not already filling effectively. Use your 35 000 troops as efficiently as possible by sending only stuff that can be easily shipped/airlifted. There's plenty of stuff you can do beyond bashing your head against the communist forces.