New Civilizations (2nd Era, OOC, Always Open )

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

Tag, I shall attempt to make an author based on myself...though perhaps one less spoiled.

[Joohan]

The Mahabharata is not relative to this time period.

I should say that it is extremely relative for you however, as a guide for what to expect. Though these people may not be feuding Aryan princes, they shall be the progenitors which create that culture. Similarities will abound. And as such, because of how developed this region of the world is, integration and alliances become an extremely tedious affair - having to account for: blood feuds, religious differences, competition of resources, tribal pride, xenophobia, long standing dynastic alliances, etc.

As for population, using the population listed within the thread previously, and adjusting for centers of civilization and cultivation, I estimated the Indus River Civilization (Indus Valley + Gujarat region) has about 1.5 Million total inhabitants. Another 1 million along the Gangetic Plain, with the other 2 Million dispersed across the rest of the continent. (iirc the population for India was listed at ~4.5 million).

half a million, 1.5, you're not taking it over in 5 years either way.

With most people still living a rural lifestyle, and power projection concentrated in the cities and along waterways, the federation which has been established is just that, a Federation. A group of city-states working together for the betterment of all. The conquests are to secure border regions for greater security for the primary member cities of Harappa, Khusab, and Sargodha.

If you believe that government works at all this smoothly, then you are terribly mistaken. You're rule of Harappa is maintained through a surrogate, already your basis of power is shaky at best. Why then should the cities of Khusab and Sargodha, each powerful and prosperous cities in their own right, side with Harappa, a rival to their power and wealth, doubtless possessing innumerable historical disputes? Are we to believe that these rivals lead the federation as equals, merely out of some non-existent sense of duty toward a federation, thought up by some defeated chieftain from the east? Are we to believe that the powerful and prideful lords of the valley let Javin, a disgraced foreigner with strong ties to Harappa, lord over them because... he is not one of them? Did Javin abolish the nepotistic tendencies of the valley in the five years he's been teaching his students?

In addition to all that, why on earth would any of the cities let you lead when you have very publicly stated that you intend to-

construct a city along the Ravi river, roughtly where Lahore is today, to serve as his capital in the future.

Yet another rival city to challenge their power?

Your hold on authority is extremely shaky at the absolute best - never mind all the unprecedented conquest of the north you would have to accomplish in addition to your control over the hundreds of vying lords and prideful cities.

[The Imperial Warglorian Empire]

So...could I ask how exactly this'll work? Once we land in the past, how would one go about creating their own civilisation?

Any specific mechanics and etc? Tips and tricks?

[Joohan]

So...could I ask how exactly this'll work? Once we land in the past, how would one go about creating their own civilisation?

Any specific mechanics and etc? Tips and tricks?

Read the first few pages of the IC.

Thus far, the typical route has been adoption by a village, and then the slow ( stretch this out for taste and story development ) rise through social ranks until we reach a position were in we exercise direct control and influence over a polity. From there, our will just naturally starts taking the shape of a civilization.

Viktor become a judge for his city after about two years.

Luther became a predatory merchant lording interests over city states after about five years.

Andrew become a great general married a princess of Aksum after about five years.

Clara convinced the danish tribes to poole resources after about four years.

Issac became a general and couped his village after nine years.

Patrick became a hero and made peace between the tribes of Ireland.

Victor is into yoga

Soto invented communism

We all have different ways of getting there.

Edit: Could you maybe tell me what you intend on creating? I could tell you about what some people did to get there.

[Endem]

Hi, I leave this post here, so I don't lose the OOC, are we supposed to repost our Author apps by the way

[Joohan]

Hi, I leave this post here, so I don't lose the OOC, are we supposed to repost our Author apps by the way

Just to the Author list

[Endem]

Hi, I leave this post here, so I don't lose the OOC, are we supposed to repost our Author apps by the way

Just to the Author list

And how do I add it there... Wait, is it a no or yes... Eh, I'll just go work on the first post for my Author's civ in 2975

[Joohan]

Just to the Author list

And how do I add it there... Wait, is it a no or yes... Eh, I'll just go work on my post

Yes you're still in. Just copy the Author Profile code and fill it out on the Author List page.

[Endem]

And how do I add it there... Wait, is it a no or yes... Eh, I'll just go work on my post

Yes you're still in. Just copy the Author Profile code and fill it out on the Author List page.

Aye, done

[Alaroma]

So...could I ask how exactly this'll work? Once we land in the past, how would one go about creating their own civilisation?

Any specific mechanics and etc? Tips and tricks?

Read the first few pages of the IC.

Thus far, the typical route has been adoption by a village, and then the slow ( stretch this out for taste and story development ) rise through social ranks until we reach a position were in we exercise direct control and influence over a polity. From there, our will just naturally starts taking the shape of a civilization.

Viktor become a judge for his city after about two years.

Luther became a predatory merchant lording interests over city states after about five years.

Andrew become a great general married a princess of Aksum after about five years.

Clara convinced the danish tribes to poole resources after about four years.

Issac became a general and couped his village after nine years.

Patrick became a hero and made peace between the tribes of Ireland.

Victor is into yoga

Soto invented communism

We all have different ways of getting there.

Edit: Could you maybe tell me what you intend on creating? I could tell you about what some people did to get there.

Ngl it’ll be a long time before Andrew ever gets the chance to officially rule the Kingdom. Well, when he rules, it won’t be a Kingdom I guess.

[Joohan]

Could you fix the bold text so that it resembles my app at the top? I messed up the app code way back a year ago, and having people keep copying it just makes it look... me no likey. The new code on this OP is fixed.

[Plzen]

[...] you posit 1500 being deployed along the Danevirke - half of the professionals.

One-third of the professionals. Given the nature of the times, every abled-bodied man or woman can and will pick up a weapon when his or her home is under threat. That 1,500 figure includes the militias of the border settlements - and we’re talking about the defence of a settlement, the one situation where they are willing to be in play.

They’re not a trained force, because unlike Hibernia we don’t train our civilian reserve - hence “two-thirds some variant of decently trained” - but it hardly takes a supreme feat of discipline to fire a crossbow from behind a stone wall.

And a dozen crossing points of similar importance to Tharinsford - with perhaps half that number of lesser importance. Wouldn't that put us in the realm of a couple dozen men at Tharinsford itself, perhaps five or six dozen, not the 200-300 you cite?

Your willingness to argue with my worldbuilding without properly reading it is starting to get on my nerves.

I’ve made assumed, if you will go through my earlier OOC posts, that pre-Commonwealth Scandinavian settlements had on the order of 150 inhabitants on average, with the more developed south having a bit bigger on average. The Republic of Denmark, which is a bit bigger than Denmark as it exists today, maybe had 13,000 people then. This Republic consists of four regions, of which South Jylland is one of the smaller two geographically and not an unusually populous one. Given that, how many Danish settlements are likely to sit close enough to the border that their defences are a meaningful part of the Danevirke?

Frankly, when I said “three or four” in my previous OOC posts I was probably being generous. The Eider is scarcely the only river in the region, not to mention all the coasts.

Of course, that leaves less than a few hundred to expand those immense Baltic Republics you've noted in the east, and a rather paltry garrison for anywhere outside of the direct frontier of, literally, a dozen men or so to every wide swathe of settlements.

Those borders are still more theoretical than real, as is the Commonwealth’s own northern and eastern territorial claims. Besides the point, these client states have their own military to draw upon, to which our contribution is just that - security assistance.

And is, say, Viborg or Nöteborg likely to need more than a dozen soldiers in its garrison? Who’s out there to attack those places, the vast thundering masses of the Karelian hordes? There’s a reason why I even counted these garrisons as part of the Commonwealth’s mobilisable force - they’ll probably be fine with just their militia. The Republican Guards sends a garrison because “probably” is unsatisfactory, when we can afford to send more in peacetime.

As far as atrocities go, I can't see that having produced more than a lingering resentment in the minority driven north - which themselves shouldn't constitute a large amount of the Danish population, nonwithstanding some factor I'm not aware of.

The experience would be, you previously argued and I conceded, sufficiently devastating for the Commonwealth to force it into an early peace. That doesn’t sound like an accurate description of Imperial depredations that only affect the half a dozen settlements south of the Eider.

---

And that’s the last response you’re getting out on me with regards to the issue at hand. The whole point of getting arbitration is that I don’t get locked down into an attrition of stamina against you, who can write more words and write them faster than I.

[Alaroma]

Speaking of Reservists, I’ll be addressing that little bit of info. Well, the Senate will. Then it will listen to all the lobbyists afterwards.

[Joohan]

Read the first few pages of the IC.

Thus far, the typical route has been adoption by a village, and then the slow ( stretch this out for taste and story development ) rise through social ranks until we reach a position were in we exercise direct control and influence over a polity. From there, our will just naturally starts taking the shape of a civilization.

Viktor become a judge for his city after about two years.

Luther became a predatory merchant lording interests over city states after about five years.

Andrew become a great general married a princess of Aksum after about five years.

Clara convinced the danish tribes to poole resources after about four years.

Issac became a general and couped his village after nine years.

Patrick became a hero and made peace between the tribes of Ireland.

Victor is into yoga

Soto invented communism

We all have different ways of getting there.

Edit: Could you maybe tell me what you intend on creating? I could tell you about what some people did to get there.

Ngl it’ll be a long time before Andrew ever gets the chance to officially rule the Kingdom. Well, when he rules, it won’t be a Kingdom I guess.

Andrew and Issac are leading a somewhat similar path it seems. Issac also started out merely as commander for the army of his adoptive tribe, the Ablan. He didn't lead his coup ( more than a bit inspired by the march on rome - rode a horse through the streets and everything ) until nine years after his arrival. Issac was on far less amicable terms with the leading clan of Stranix though than Andrew is with the king of Aksum.

[Joohan]

[...]

Do you two need arbitration to settle the matter?

[Alaroma]

Ngl it’ll be a long time before Andrew ever gets the chance to officially rule the Kingdom. Well, when he rules, it won’t be a Kingdom I guess.

Andrew and Issac are leading a somewhat similar path it seems. Issac also started out merely as commander for the army of his adoptive tribe, the Ablan. He didn't lead his coup ( more than a bit inspired by the march on rome - rode a horse through the streets and everything ) until nine years after his arrival. Issac was on far less amicable terms with the leading clan of Stranix though than Andrew is with the king of Aksum.

Andrew by nature (and I should really explore this more) not a monarchist, he’s a Republican. In general he wouldn’t support a monarchy, however the thing is, he likes the Monarch as a person. Him being married to his daughter doesn’t help. The fact the Crown Prince was a dorky kid following him around, and is like a little brother, makes enacting his Republican tendencies less desirable. At least for now. However he did introduce the Senate, ie our glorified revisory and advisory body,

[Joohan]

So... say, I were to be in current contact with a concept artist on fivrr about to commission an art piece for our thread... what would yall like to see?

[Alaroma]

So... say, I were to be in current contact with a concept artist on fivrr about to commission an art piece for our thread... what would yall like to see?

A group photo of the authors. Or authors dueling, that’d be neat.

[Plzen]

Do you two need arbitration to settle the matter?

Yes - we’ve asked Saxony-Brandenburg and she agreed. I’ve sent her my perspectives on the matter, I’m not sure G-Tech sent his, and she can read all the arguments we’ve had in OOC to date.

I await her judgement.

---

Clara convinced the danish tribes to poole resources after about four years.

But that took some large compromises to get it going that early and growing that fast.

The Commonwealth is possibly second only to Crimea in terms of being author civilisations that are independent from the author who founded them.

---

Name: Bruno Davids

Fascinating... one more European author civilisation to make the region’s politics more byzantine than it already is, and one dropping right in the heart of Western Europe’s sun-light fertile and populous core, too.

---

And this is why I've structured my military the way I have. Doesn't matter if the majority of your military force is off fighting somewhere else when someone attacks one of your towns. 2/3rds of said town can be ready to fight in an hour.

Which, for the Commonwealth, is all of 100~150 people... Scandinavia doesn’t have cities the way Hibernia does. Without serious fortifications, fortifications more sophisticated than can be built and manned by a settlement of 150 or 200 without external help, a force of that size is not much more than a speedbump for one of those 1,000-man Companies of the Imperium. I feel that properly training a force that will fight, at best, a couple of very short sieges is a waste of effort that can go into our regular troops.

Though I do imagine a major strongpoint like Tharinsford would have a larger garrison than some random stretch of nothing along the Danevirke. A few dozen men guarding it implies a relatively even distribution of soldiers along the battlements when really none is needed. In creating these strongpoints you essentially know where an enemy will have to attack if they wish to cross. That's the whole point of erecting a fortress. The Imperium can't just blitzkrieg over the maginot here, because said fortresses can be used to easily close any gaps made. Likewise the Imperium doesn't have the means to reliably supply a large force cut off from its territory by land against a naval power. Therefore, if they intend to cross they need to take a heavily fortified position like Tharinsford so they can utilize it themselves against a counterattack. As such, it'd be utterly moronic not to station a large garrison there.

250 Danevirke garrison + 150 Tharinsford militia is my best estimate of “immediately available forces” in this keep, which would be one of three or four on the Danevirke.

I’m inclined to give him his friendly civic leaders, even if I think infiltration on that scale against a society as open as the Commonwealth is a dodgy bet, which would nullify that militia for the opening hour or so of the conflict. That still leaves 200~300 from the garrison.

Your reasoning is... vaguely similar to, but not quite what I had in mind when I discussed stone keeps at key points on the Danevirke.

[Ralnis]

So... say, I were to be in current contact with a concept artist on fivrr about to commission an art piece for our thread... what would yall like to see?

Like a picture with all the current or major Authors in their distinctive clothing of their nations side by side. Show the new people who are viewing the OP the diverse cast of characters that this RP has.

So... say, I were to be in current contact with a concept artist on fivrr about to commission an art piece for our thread... what would yall like to see?

A group photo of the authors. Or authors dueling, that’d be neat.

Don't fucking ninja me akin or Aksum gets it!

[Joohan]

So... say, I were to be in current contact with a concept artist on fivrr about to commission an art piece for our thread... what would yall like to see?

A group photo of the authors. Or authors dueling, that’d be neat.

It would be a very tense group photo... just a 21 way mexican stand off.

[Alaroma]

A group photo of the authors. Or authors dueling, that’d be neat.

It would be a very tense group photo... just a 21 way mexican stand off.

Lmao it’s all the European authors staring at each other, hands hovering over their swords, while the Near east authors are just having a good time, hugging each other. Sato is Just in the distance, looking at everyone with disdain.

[Ralnis]

It would be a very tense group photo... just a 21 way mexican stand off.

Lmao it’s all the European authors staring at each other, hands hovering over their swords, while the Near east authors are just having a good time, hugging each other. Sato is Just in the distance, looking at everyone with disdain.

I could see this so much.

[Joohan]

It would be a very tense group photo... just a 21 way mexican stand off.

Lmao it’s all the European authors staring at each other, hands hovering over their swords, while the Near east authors are just having a good time, hugging each other. Sato is Just in the distance, looking at everyone with disdain.

I just imagine Luther putting his hands onto the kid version of Andrew and glaring at Victor like, " Stay away from me and my son! "

[G-Tech Corporation]

-snip-

I'll get around to this later, then, I suppose, since you don't intend to respond.

Do you two need arbitration to settle the matter?

I suppose that could be useful.

Essentially, my last thrust narratively with Viktor has been to court the more moderate members of Norse society, and so promote reform in the Commonwealth into a more gentle and amicable nation. That included getting in touch with the more trade-orientated blocs of Norse politics, the Committee of Concerned Citizens, who resent Roskilde's warlike mannerisms and growing control of independent affairs of the settlements within the Commonwealth.

One of those contacts put Viktor and the Imperium in touch with Magnus Amaste, the chieftain of Tharinsford, a settlement on the Norse-Imperial border in Denmark, on the north shore of the Eider and thence the Danevirke. Though such was not the initial intent of that contact, the negotiations eventually ended up with Magnus and the local notable family leaders persuaded to swear allegiance to the Imperium, and Tharinsford theoretically integrated into the Imperium, for local reasons as well as skepticism of Roskilde's influence, combined with the opportunity to profit greatly from more libertine trade.

Obviously the addition of a town on the Danevirke to the Imperium is a rather sensitive topic for Plzen, which is fair enough. Thus we've been discussing the circumstances of that arc. It is Plzen's standpoint that no settlement with such sympathies could be found, for all Danish citizens have an undying hatred of the Imperium without deviation or exception - and, even if such a settlement could be found, all passages of the Eider River are manned by three hundred Norse soldiers derived from the Norse professional army, not the local militia, and so the subversion even of the local power players would not have allowed Imperial soldiers to cross the Danevirke due to their opposition.

This got us into a discussion of how many professional soldiers the Norse actually have - since deploying hundreds of soldiers at several points along the Danish border already begs the question of how the Norse support those troop levels. Apparently the Norse have three thousand soldiers of one cut or another out of a population of ~50k, which comes up to a solid 6% of the population being in the Norse military, and apparently all 'very well' armed.

That'd probably be the most useful point for you to arbitrate. I usually base my numbers off of a 1% level for a truly professional military, well armed and well trained, with rapidly diminishing results as the number of warriors in a military increases. At a 6% standing military we're looking at a total war spirit of national defense, with basically whatever weapons a person can get their hands on, and supplies very limited or indeed logistics simply incapable of deploying that force, reducing the soldiers to foraging and personal support.

So, what would you think of as a reasonable force size for the Commonwealth? Could she produce enough crossbows in the last five years to equip, say, ten thousand theoretical militiamen?