New Civilizations (2nd Era, OOC, Always Open )

[G-Tech Corporation]

The Commonwealth normally has a healthy surplus in food - probably the best in Europe, given our respective early posts - and a decent system of storage...

Is that so? What methods did Clara introduce for food production?

Also, I just finally read your last OOC post. I'm largely fine with most of what you mentioned, except for two things: 3000 men under arms permanently from a population of ~50k? What atrocities did the Imperium commit in central Denmark?

[Plzen]

Also, I just finally read your last OOC post. I'm largely fine with most of what you mentioned, except for two things: 3000 men under arms permanently from a population of ~50k? What atrocities did the Imperium commit in central Denmark?

Bit under 2,000 permanent - the Regional Guards have civilian lives, as I pointed out in the post you just read. It’s certainly a sizeable force, but secondary powers bordering unfriendly great powers tend to stay quite heavily militarised, by sheer obvious necessity.

The last war saw the Imperium razing settlements in the border region and dispersing the population, I recall, with the intent to put pressure on the Commonwealth to find a negotiated settlement. People don’t take well to their livelihoods going up in smoke, to say the least, nor to what appears to be an effort to depopulate their homelands.

[Lord Dominator]

Ooh, fancy new OP.

Hopefully an IC post soon, assuming I can master my procrastination

[G-Tech Corporation]

Bit under 2,000 permanent - the Regional Guards have civilian lives, as I pointed out in the post you just read. It’s certainly a sizeable force, but secondary powers bordering unfriendly great powers tend to stay quite heavily militarised, by sheer obvious necessity.

Hmm yes. That's very interesting. I had thought your military would be much smaller, as a consequence of supportable population size. There's nothing wrong with that level of men under arms - neglecting the Regional Guards for a moment - clocking in at nearly one man in every eight of military age. But it'll certainly place a large strain on the Commonwealth's economy and military preparedness. I'd hesitate to the say that the Commonwealth can effectively arm and supply such an amount of soldiers to the level you consider well-armed, but that might be a question for Joohan, given my close relationship to the question.

Even setting aside the relative quality of such a large ratio of soldiers, you posit 1500 being deployed along the Danevirke - half of the professionals. So, a thousand men, perhaps, actively on duty at any given time. And a dozen crossing points of similar importance to Tharinsford - with perhaps half that number of lesser importance. Wouldn't that put us in the realm of a couple dozen men at Tharinsford itself, perhaps five or six dozen, not the 200-300 you cite?

Of course, that leaves less than a few hundred to expand those immense Baltic Republics you've noted in the east, and a rather paltry garrison for anywhere outside of the direct frontier of, literally, a dozen men or so to every wide swathe of settlements.

The last war saw the Imperium razing settlements in the border region and dispersing the population, I recall, with the intent to put pressure on the Commonwealth to find a negotiated settlement. People don’t take well to their livelihoods going up in smoke, to say the least, nor to what appears to be an effort to depopulate their homelands.

Certainly - but that was a very mild form of depopulation, and wouldn't have reached anywhere as far north as Tharinsford itself. The outright razing was confined to the Commonwealth settlements that existed in the contested region, and was only done after allowing the locals to take what goods they could with them for the journey north. Tools, livestock, equipment, material wealth, all that good stuff. As far as atrocities go, I can't see that having produced more than a lingering resentment in the minority driven north - which themselves shouldn't constitute a large amount of the Danish population, nonwithstanding some factor I'm not aware of.

[The Orson Empire]

Ahh, that new thread smell!

I plan to work on getting an updated app for Turner up.

[Bortslovakia]

Bit under 2,000 permanent - the Regional Guards have civilian lives, as I pointed out in the post you just read. It’s certainly a sizeable force, but secondary powers bordering unfriendly great powers tend to stay quite heavily militarised, by sheer obvious necessity.

Hmm yes. That's very interesting. I had thought your military would be much smaller, as a consequence of supportable population size. There's nothing wrong with that level of men under arms - neglecting the Regional Guards for a moment - clocking in at nearly one man in every eight of military age. But it'll certainly place a large strain on the Commonwealth's economy and military preparedness. I'd hesitate to the say that the Commonwealth can effectively arm and supply such an amount of soldiers to the level you consider well-armed, but that might be a question for Joohan, given my close relationship to the question.

Even setting aside the relative quality of such a large ratio of soldiers, you posit 1500 being deployed along the Danevirke - half of the professionals. So, a thousand men, perhaps, actively on duty at any given time. And a dozen crossing points of similar importance to Tharinsford - with perhaps half that number of lesser importance. Wouldn't that put us in the realm of a couple dozen men at Tharinsford itself, perhaps five or six dozen, not the 200-300 you cite?

Of course, that leaves less than a few hundred to expand those immense Baltic Republics you've noted in the east, and a rather paltry garrison for anywhere outside of the direct frontier of, literally, a dozen men or so to every wide swathe of settlements.

The last war saw the Imperium razing settlements in the border region and dispersing the population, I recall, with the intent to put pressure on the Commonwealth to find a negotiated settlement. People don’t take well to their livelihoods going up in smoke, to say the least, nor to what appears to be an effort to depopulate their homelands.

Certainly - but that was a very mild form of depopulation, and wouldn't have reached anywhere as far north as Tharinsford itself. The outright razing was confined to the Commonwealth settlements that existed in the contested region, and was only done after allowing the locals to take what goods they could with them for the journey north. Tools, livestock, equipment, material wealth, all that good stuff. As far as atrocities go, I can't see that having produced more than a lingering resentment in the minority driven north - which themselves shouldn't constitute a large amount of the Danish population, nonwithstanding some factor I'm not aware of.

And this is why I've structured my military the way I have. Doesn't matter if the majority of your military force is off fighting somewhere else when someone attacks one of your towns. 2/3rds of said town can be ready to fight in an hour. Though I do imagine a major strongpoint like Tharinsford would have a larger garrison than some random stretch of nothing along the Danevirke. A few dozen men guarding it implies a relatively even distribution of soldiers along the battlements when really none is needed. In creating these strongpoints you essentially know where an enemy will have to attack if they wish to cross. That's the whole point of erecting a fortress. The Imperium can't just blitzkrieg over the maginot here, because said fortresses can be used to easily close any gaps made. Likewise the Imperium doesn't have the means to reliably supply a large force cut off from its territory by land against a naval power. Therefore, if they intend to cross they need to take a heavily fortified position like Tharinsford so they can utilize it themselves against a counterattack. As such, it'd be utterly moronic not to station a large garrison there.

Anyways, lovely new thread. Whoever picked that song has good taste in music

[New Arcadius]

Oh this is beautiful!

[G-Tech Corporation]

Though I do imagine a major strongpoint like Tharinsford would have a larger garrison than some random stretch of nothing along the Danevirke. A few dozen men guarding it implies a relatively even distribution of soldiers along the battlements when really none is needed.

Well, no. I only mentioned a few dozen because Plzen mentioned there being a dozen crossings the likes of Tharinsford - bridges, that is. Thus the division of men between those dozen crossings - and a few more shaved off for less populous but still important crossings, like fords without bridges. I guesstimated at a third the garrison for those - since they still need to be watched by, say, a squad, but obviously don't need dozens of soldiers around them.

So, 12 points for a quality of (3) along the major defenses, and 6 points with a quality of (1) at the minors - for a total of 42 'points' where these thousand professionals are stationed. 1000/42 = 23, with 3 x 23 deployed to a major crossing like Tharinsford leaves us at... six dozen men, or about exactly what I guesstimated.

Six dozen men, strike them between watches, probably at night, with local support... there might be a third of their number on night watches, half of that stationed at the gates instead of patrolling along the Danevirke itself...

I think I can trust infiltrated Imperial outriders and the local sympathizers to swiftly overrun a dozen guards and seize the gates, allowing additional Imperials to cross as planned and pacify the remainder. Blockade the barracks quietly, take the wall patrols before they can flee to warn others, and Magnus can be an Imperial Warden of Tharinsford within a single night.

And that's assuming that every single soldier of those thousand is deployed exclusively on the Danevirke, not a man along the coasts, not a man in the harbors, not a man in the ships. Defeat in detail is a thing for a reason.

[Cainesland]

Summary of post

- Expansion of associations
- Mentioned Bostwick stepping away from the associations and his kids stepping into them.
- Introduced two new companies based on region more than profession called the Northwest Company based around the Dneiper River in Ukraine, and the Hudson’s Bay Company based around the Don river in Russia. Both use Beaver pelts as common currency.
- Expansion of the single market around the Black Sea
- Introduced a grain backed chit currency
- Discussed the consequences of the education system and cadet system. Mentioned the cadet system lessons and uniform such as Glengarry and Kilt.
- Introduced a new governance system based on Sparta that included an executive mayor elected every 4-5 years, 5 lawmakers elected every year by lottery, and an upper chamber of 28 lifetime members which reviews legislation created by the 5 lawmakers.
- Bostwick became lifetime Chief of Mountains cove before changing the position to one that was elected every 4-5 years.

- Shows Bostwick on a river cruise down the western side of the pre Carpathian Danube, likely in Oltenia, which provides a border between Crimean single market and the Nestos league.

[Joohan]

Borts, we should finish 0ur collab today. I'll be put training in the field for the next three days starting tomorrow

[Joohan]

*Looks at map*

Wait a second.... Javin's on the wrong river.. and the country itself is missing. The Indus River already had a civilization going before and during this time period.

Please note: I haven't filled in all towns and settlements, just the largest ones. Populates are approx. for the true locations with estimations for the more minor cities.

Areas outside of the outlined area include both historical and approximated cities. And I included the Kingdom on the Ganges which defeated Javin in Patna. Lower Indus cities are all actual locations, though not all of the cities I could find have been included.

That's not your civilization though is it? That is merely the Indus valley civilization, the place where you were chased off toward?

[Joohan]

This next part isn't really a new game feature, but it is more of just a general announcement. Because Northern Europe is comparatively OP when compared to the rest of the world right now, every one of those civ's is going to have an interesting time during this new time skip. Needless to say, prepare for some Serious disaster events.

To be honest, it's only the Imperium...

The Commonwealth may be sophisticated and Icedonia powerful, but punch-for-punch none of us can hold our own against Sumer. It's only the Imperium that holds such a large advantage over everyone else.

Though yes, the Imperium will be getting the brunt of this event ( though it will be generous all around ), the commonwealth - were it to go up against almost any other civilization in the world outside of Northern Europe right now, they would probably win.

[Bortslovakia]

Though I do imagine a major strongpoint like Tharinsford would have a larger garrison than some random stretch of nothing along the Danevirke. A few dozen men guarding it implies a relatively even distribution of soldiers along the battlements when really none is needed.

Well, no. I only mentioned a few dozen because Plzen mentioned there being a dozen crossings the likes of Tharinsford - bridges, that is. Thus the division of men between those dozen crossings - and a few more shaved off for less populous but still important crossings, like fords without bridges. I guesstimated at a third the garrison for those - since they still need to be watched by, say, a squad, but obviously don't need dozens of soldiers around them.

So, 12 points for a quality of (3) along the major defenses, and 6 points with a quality of (1) at the minors - for a total of 42 'points' where these thousand professionals are stationed. 1000/42 = 23, with 3 x 23 deployed to a major crossing like Tharinsford leaves us at... six dozen men, or about exactly what I guesstimated.

Six dozen men, strike them between watches, probably at night, with local support... there might be a third of their number on night watches, half of that stationed at the gates instead of patrolling along the Danevirke itself...

I think I can trust infiltrated Imperial outriders and the local sympathizers to swiftly overrun a dozen guards and seize the gates, allowing additional Imperials to cross as planned and pacify the remainder. Blockade the barracks quietly, take the wall patrols before they can flee to warn others, and Magnus can be an Imperial Warden of Tharinsford within a single night.

And that's assuming that every single soldier of those thousand is deployed exclusively on the Danevirke, not a man along the coasts, not a man in the harbors, not a man in the ships. Defeat in detail is a thing for a reason.

Ahh but if we're assuming 1000 are deployed regularly, that still leaves 500 to be called upon when needed (it's safe to assume those on leave are still quite close to the front line). As such, it's significantly more important that places like Tharinsford have a large enough garrison to stop exactly what you're proposing than it is to hold an observation post. Thus you only really need groups of 2-4 soldiers in those areas, just enough to warn the nearby garrison that a force is approaching. It wouldn't change much, but there's no reason to assume the Commonwealth would waste 12 soldiers in the middle of nowhere. I won't contest the naval point, but I'm pretty sure Plzen has a separate, primarily "civilian" pool for that.

But even if what you propose is the case... that's an awful lot that has to go right for the Imperium. More so than is realistic, especially in a town that I'm sure has very few Imperial sympathizers to begin with.

[Joohan]

Well, no. I only mentioned a few dozen because Plzen mentioned there being a dozen crossings the likes of Tharinsford - bridges, that is. Thus the division of men between those dozen crossings - and a few more shaved off for less populous but still important crossings, like fords without bridges. I guesstimated at a third the garrison for those - since they still need to be watched by, say, a squad, but obviously don't need dozens of soldiers around them.

So, 12 points for a quality of (3) along the major defenses, and 6 points with a quality of (1) at the minors - for a total of 42 'points' where these thousand professionals are stationed. 1000/42 = 23, with 3 x 23 deployed to a major crossing like Tharinsford leaves us at... six dozen men, or about exactly what I guesstimated.

Six dozen men, strike them between watches, probably at night, with local support... there might be a third of their number on night watches, half of that stationed at the gates instead of patrolling along the Danevirke itself...

I think I can trust infiltrated Imperial outriders and the local sympathizers to swiftly overrun a dozen guards and seize the gates, allowing additional Imperials to cross as planned and pacify the remainder. Blockade the barracks quietly, take the wall patrols before they can flee to warn others, and Magnus can be an Imperial Warden of Tharinsford within a single night.

And that's assuming that every single soldier of those thousand is deployed exclusively on the Danevirke, not a man along the coasts, not a man in the harbors, not a man in the ships. Defeat in detail is a thing for a reason.

Ahh but if we're assuming 1000 are deployed regularly, that still leaves 500 to be called upon when needed (it's safe to assume those on leave are still quite close to the front line). As such, it's significantly more important that places like Tharinsford have a large enough garrison to stop exactly what you're proposing than it is to hold an observation post. Thus you only really need groups of 2-4 soldiers in those areas, just enough to warn the nearby garrison that a force is approaching. It wouldn't change much, but there's no reason to assume the Commonwealth would waste 12 soldiers in the middle of nowhere. I won't contest the naval point, but I'm pretty sure Plzen has a separate, primarily "civilian" pool for that.

But even if what you propose is the case... that's an awful lot that has to go right for the Imperium. More so than is realistic, especially in a town that I'm sure has very few Imperial sympathizers to begin with.

I've not read G's most recent post - but this is generally the case in the Army IRL. You wouldn't populate observer posts with more than a platoon generally, while the point of command ( in this case the Danevirke ) would house the rest of what ever unit is stationed there.

[Alaroma]

To be honest, it's only the Imperium...

The Commonwealth may be sophisticated and Icedonia powerful, but punch-for-punch none of us can hold our own against Sumer. It's only the Imperium that holds such a large advantage over everyone else.

Though yes, the Imperium will be getting the brunt of this event ( though it will be generous all around ), the commonwealth - were it to go up against almost any other civilization in the world outside of Northern Europe right now, they would probably win.

As things stand, the Commonwealth could kick our ass in multiple fields.

[Joohan]

Though yes, the Imperium will be getting the brunt of this event ( though it will be generous all around ), the commonwealth - were it to go up against almost any other civilization in the world outside of Northern Europe right now, they would probably win.

As things stand, the Commonwealth could kick our ass in multiple fields.

I'd put you on Crimea/Nestos tier - but by far you are the fastest riser.

[Ralnis]

As things stand, the Commonwealth could kick our ass in multiple fields.

I'd put you on Crimea/Nestos tier - but by far you are the fastest riser.

Time to raze Aksum to the ground. Can't deal with another riser.

[Kelmet]

I'd put you on Crimea/Nestos tier - but by far you are the fastest riser.

Time to raze Aksum to the ground. Can't deal with another riser.

That's the spirit

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Author Application
Name: Bruno Davids
Age: 24
Height and Weight: 1.78m, 80kg
Skin, hair, and eye description: White, cleanly shaven, with short, messy, light brown hair and blue-grey eyes.
Picture:

Prior Profession:Labour union lawyer
Level of education: Bachelor in law, master's degree in treaty law, taken classes in labour law, ancient Egyptian law and history of public and private law
Physique description: Bruno has a relatively strong build, but lacks the endurance necessary to compete in sports. He has the strength to be good tennis player, but lacks the stamina to actually compete at higher levels.
Useful skills: Basic survival skills, teaching talent, oratory and legal knowledge

National Origin: Dutch
What were you doing prior to falling asleep and awakening in the past?: Walking through the city of Leiden
Description of personality: Bruno is a pacifist, who makes it his personal mission to please others. He suffers from major self esteem issues, which makes him very keen to please the people he meets. However, he is also motivated to work, and whenever he sets himself to a task, he wants to do it perfectly. Of course, no task can be done perfectly, which feeds into the loop of feeling inadequate.
Where in the world are you landing?: Around the Montpellier area, southern France

Autobiography/Biography: Bruno was born in 1995 to a moderately wealthy household. From early on in his life, he was intrigued by various subjects, including history, the sciences, and politics. Being granted a vivid imagination, he liked to imagine stories. His imagination and interest in various subjects, as well as his sensitive (some would say hypersensitive) nature, made him a favourite target of grade school bullies, whose treatment left permanent emotional baggage and self esteem issues. However, Bruno learnt that humour was a potent shield against those who would deride him, and became quite ad rem in that regard.

After high school, which was somewhat more bearable than grade school, Bruno went on to study law. It combined his interest in politics and the written word, and gave him an alley into possibly doing work that would be beneficial to others, which was the main reason for his choice of course. He had particular interest in legal history and human rights law, and went on to do a master's degree in public international law, specialising in the law of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. Following his studies, he applied for various jobs, and was eventually hired to a senior lawyer position in a large union. After having only worked there for a week, he was teleported into the past.

What are your intentions for this RP, what's the long term goal?: To build a world from the ground up, where no poverty exists and where everyone is cared for equally.
What people or places are you taking inspiration from?: I'm always inspired by Napoleon, although I am a pacifist. Just a mix of Augustus, Napoleon, Frederick II (of the Holy Roman Empire), and Justinian
Why did you chose to land where you did?: There is a lot of area to work with, it is rather fertile, but not very advanced yet.
What vibe should we get from your civilization and it's culture?: A civilisation not really concerned with glory and conquest, but rather with inward perfection. A kingdom of justice where laws bind both citizens and the government.
What are your character's motivations?: Equality and justice
Theme Song?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02PxQmHIQ5o
What do you wanna see in this RP? What would make it better?: Some civilisations might advance a bit too rapidly. It should take a lot of time for technology to progress, since manufacturing bases need a lot of population to create the economy necessary to sustainable use tech. Getting population up should be a primary goal of the players, since the size of an economy is primarily linked to its population.

[Alaroma]

Time to raze Aksum to the ground. Can't deal with another riser.

That's the spirit

Smh don't encourage him.

[Kelmet]

That's the spirit

Smh don't encourage him.

[Ralnis]

That's the spirit

Smh don't encourage him.

Sumerian cogs load up incendiaries and siege rocks to be sent to the Red Sea.

[Nuxipal]

*Looks at map*

Wait a second.... Javin's on the wrong river.. and the country itself is missing. The Indus River already had a civilization going before and during this time period.

Please note: I haven't filled in all towns and settlements, just the largest ones. Populates are approx. for the true locations with estimations for the more minor cities.

Areas outside of the outlined area include both historical and approximated cities. And I included the Kingdom on the Ganges which defeated Javin in Patna. Lower Indus cities are all actual locations, though not all of the cities I could find have been included.

That's not your civilization though is it? That is merely the Indus valley civilization, the place where you were chased off toward?

Yes and no. Southern Indus River is not, the North is being united by diplomacy and the sword. Javin's position is essential to holding one of the major settlements into the kingdom through marriage. The rest of the five year time skip was Javin on campaign to secure the north-east border and finding out he will have to go cover the western side because the other army was beaten there. I haven't had him officially crowned or anything, but I've had him be referred to with the term Chhatrapati at least once. After he finishes the current portion of the war, I'm going to have him crowned officially.

[Joohan]

That's not your civilization though is it? That is merely the Indus valley civilization, the place where you were chased off toward?

Yes and no. Southern Indus River is not, the North is being united by diplomacy and the sword. Javin's position is essential to holding one of the major settlements into the kingdom through marriage. The rest of the five year time skip was Javin on campaign to secure the north-east border and finding out he will have to go cover the western side because the other army was beaten there. I haven't had him officially crowned or anything, but I've had him be referred to with the term Chhatrapati at least once. After he finishes the current portion of the war, I'm going to have him crowned officially.

Do you know how many people live in your part of the world? Around this time period, there were nearly half a million people in the Indus Valley region. In five years, I am expected to believe that you united half of them?

I read your posts, and i'm not convinced that your federation is at all nearly stable enough to actually dominate to such an extent. It seems that the nobles only agreed to the matter so as to dominate their smaller neighbors - not out of any since of unity or loyalty to you or your vision. The amount of back stabbing and clan conflicts in the background are sure to... well... have you ever read the Mahabharata? You're in one of the most culturally developed regions in the entire world. I would be impressed if you managed to rule Harrapa over the next 5 years, let alone half the entire river valley.

Once you create an effective government, start introduce some actually revolutionary technologies, develop innovative tactics, and start actually tying up the numerous kinks throughout the region, then you might expect some actual growth.

[Nuxipal]

Yes and no. Southern Indus River is not, the North is being united by diplomacy and the sword. Javin's position is essential to holding one of the major settlements into the kingdom through marriage. The rest of the five year time skip was Javin on campaign to secure the north-east border and finding out he will have to go cover the western side because the other army was beaten there. I haven't had him officially crowned or anything, but I've had him be referred to with the term Chhatrapati at least once. After he finishes the current portion of the war, I'm going to have him crowned officially.

Do you know how many people live in your part of the world? Around this time period, there were nearly half a million people in the Indus Valley region. In five years, I am expected to believe that you united half of them?

I read your posts, and i'm not convinced that your federation is at all nearly stable enough to actually dominate to such an extent. It seems that the nobles only agreed to the matter so as to dominate their smaller neighbors - not out of any since of unity or loyalty to you or your vision. The amount of back stabbing and clan conflicts in the background are sure to... well... have you ever read the Mahabharata? You're in one of the most culturally developed regions in the entire world. I would be impressed if you managed to rule Harrapa over the next 5 years, let alone half the entire river valley.

Once you create an effective government, start introduce some actually revolutionary technologies, develop innovative tactics, and start actually tying up the numerous kinks throughout the region, then you might expect some actual growth.

The Mahabharata is not relative to this time period. This current time period is prior to the Indo-Aryan migration and the people living in the region are more related to the Tamil people in southern India than the current occupants of that land. While base beliefs may be in place, anything resembling Hinduism would not have existed yet. With the migrations not happening for nearly a thousand or more years, what I have to go on is that the region is excessively fertile, was known to trade across the known world, knowledge thanks to the seals they used to identify their merchants, and that warfare was not very common at the time.

As for population, using the population listed within the thread previously, and adjusting for centers of civilization and cultivation, I estimated the Indus River Civilization (Indus Valley + Gujarat region) has about 1.5 Million total inhabitants. Another 1 million along the Gangetic Plain, with the other 2 Million dispersed across the rest of the continent. (iirc the population for India was listed at ~4.5 million).

With most people still living a rural lifestyle, and power projection concentrated in the cities and along waterways, the federation which has been established is just that, a Federation. A group of city-states working together for the betterment of all. The conquests are to secure border regions for greater security for the primary member cities of Harappa, Khusab, and Sargodha.

For Javin's part as leader, he has the loyalty of many Harappa Oligarchs due to being the teacher of them or their immediate successor, Khusab by way of marriage with only Sargodha having joined as a means to not be left behind. He is using gathered wealth at this stage to construct a city along the Ravi river, roughtly where Lahore is today, to serve as his capital in the future.

His in for Harappa was previous trade contacts making him a known name to many of the more wealthy families before he arrived there. For the government, I do have a plan on how to proceed, I thought I included it previously in another post, but it may have gotten left out during one of the various late nights of typing.