[SUBMITTED] Commercial Spaceflight Safety

[Kenmoria]

“You have a duplication of ‘a’ in clause 3a.”

[Kaschovia]

“You have a duplication of ‘a’ in clause 3a.”

Fixed.

[Kaschovia]

How close is this to submission standard? This has been in drafting for three months, and I don't mind keeping it like that if there is still more to fix.

[Maowi]

1. Defines commercial spaceflight activity as any action taken by any persons or organisation in any member nation to conduct international space travel for profit outside of national borders and territories, which may or may not involve passengers;

2. Confirms the right of member states to prohibit commercial space activity within their borders;

"I'd like some clarification on these clauses. As written, you define 'commercial spaceflight activity' so that it has to take place within the borders of any member nation, but it has to be for the purpose of conducting space travel outside of national borders. I acknowledge it's a rather literal reading, but I would say it's a reasonable one to take. Perhaps reword it to something along the lines of 'Defines commercial spaceflight activity as any action taken by any persons or organisation based in a any member nation to conduct international space travel for profit outside of said nation's national borders and territories, which may or may not involve passengers' - and after that you'd also need to alter clause 2, because as far as I can tell, at least, you are not trying to allow nations to ban commercial spaceflight activity within their borders (which, as defined, I believe would encompass any planning towards the actual space travel), but to ban international space travel for profit within their borders. I'd also recommend changing it so that member nations are permitted to "prohibit or regulate" international space travel within their borders, so they can for example prohibit it for organisations from nations other than their own."

OOC: I mean, that's all I can really think of to comment on. I'm extremely far from being anywhere near an expert on this subject, so for all I know there could be something grievously wrong with it, but personally if this got submitted fairly soon maybe with some of the edits I've suggested I'd be in support

[Excidium Planetis]

I intend to continue working on this proposal, so if anyone has any thoughts on this that have not been brought up, or any feedback, that would be greatly appreciated.

Cornelia Schultz, once the Ambassador to the World Assembly for Excidium Planetis, before the military coup and subsequent withdrawal from the WA, walks by the drafting room and sees it has been reopened.

"Do carry on, Ambassador, it looks good enough even my nation would have accepted it. Pay no heed to the Tinfectian Delegation's concerns, they just don't like the WA ever acknowledging commercial enterprise."

Ms. Schultz strolls along.

Also there are curiosities, like ... how, no matter where the windows face that your ambassador gets defenestrated from, they'll always land harmlessly in the Reflecting Pool that's never deep enough to actually drown in or shallow enough to actually get hurt.

OOC:

The WAHQ is obviously shaped like a donut, with all the windows on the inside and the Reflecting Pool forming most of the "hole". The outside of the donut has no windows, as I'm pretty sure the outside faces the void of whatever extra dimensional nexus the WAHQ resides in.

I estimate the Pool to be about 1.5 - 2 meters deep, enough to break your fall, easily shallow enough for an adult human to escape. The bottom is probably some form of foam or otherwise soft material though, so that delegations tossed into the pool won't get a concussion if their heads hit the bottom.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Also there are curiosities, like ... how, no matter where the windows face that your ambassador gets defenestrated from, they'll always land harmlessly in the Reflecting Pool that's never deep enough to actually drown in or shallow enough to actually get hurt.

OOC:

The WAHQ is obviously shaped like a donut, with all the windows on the inside and the Reflecting Pool forming most of the "hole". The outside of the donut has no windows, as I'm pretty sure the outside faces the void of whatever extra dimensional nexus the WAHQ resides in.

I estimate the Pool to be about 1.5 - 2 meters deep, enough to break your fall, easily shallow enough for an adult human to escape. The bottom is probably some form of foam or otherwise soft material though, so that delegations tossed into the pool won't get a concussion if their heads hit the bottom.

No comment on the actual structure of the pool, but it's easily imaginable that every debating chamber plus the Strangers' Bar are all located on the side of the building facing the large, rectangular reflecting pool, while non-public spaces such as offices and infrastructure (I believe I recall you yourself asserting hangars and an air/spacecraft runway once, and I like to think the entire complex sits near a harbor with a decent sized wharf) may be on other sides of the conventionally-shaped building. Has anyone ever been defenestrated from an office? Canonically mine doesn't even have windows to begin with.

[Imperium Anglorum]

Should probably make a thread to bicker about what the WAHQ looks like, but I'm under the impression that Bell, for example, has an office opposite the women's restroom or something like that? I think my canon was that my former Ambassador bribed expressed his goodwill for the HQ staff (Parsons is landed gentry) to get a decent office.

[Araraukar]

Has anyone ever been defenestrated from an office? Canonically mine doesn't even have windows to begin with.

OOC: Since the Tikrr mainly fly on the outside of the building and enter through windows (walking on flat surfaces is difficult/uncomfortable, plus they as a species are somewhat claustrophobic), I know I've written about office and other windows before, and rather than defenestration, whatever word is the opposite of that, since the hivemind's office's (former Araraukarian office) windows have certainly worked as a way in to at least two ambassadors, when the point was to avoid being seen walking through the corridors.

Still, I and many others find it much more funny to have the building - and immediate environs - to be some kind of weird multiversal pocket dimension, and both time and space being "off" in and around it. Like, it's a weird place, no attempt to explain it as anything but a weird place. But it being donut-shape I'm just not buying. I'd rather believe that whoever was commissioned to build the pool, built one on each side of a rectangular building, just so they could justify billing the Building Management five times...

but I'm under the impression that Bell, for example, has an office opposite the women's restroom or something like that? I think my canon was that my former Ambassador bribed expressed his goodwill for the HQ staff (Parsons is landed gentry) to get a decent office.

Actually in a toilet/bathroom/restroom/other euphenism, but whether it was women's or men's, I can't remember. Although, since Lupinsky torched that one, did they relocate?

Araraukarian peeps are always surprised that anyone had any trouble getting office spaces or living quarters, because they're basically all bureaucrats themselves and so "talk the same language" with Building Management gnomes... basically knowing all the secret handshakes. But that's just because it's funny for me to think that all bureaucrats everywhere are some kind of secret cabal.

[Kaschovia]

1. Defines commercial spaceflight activity as any action taken by any persons or organisation in any member nation to conduct international space travel for profit outside of national borders and territories, which may or may not involve passengers;

2. Confirms the right of member states to prohibit commercial space activity within their borders;

"I'd like some clarification on these clauses. As written, you define 'commercial spaceflight activity' so that it has to take place within the borders of any member nation, but it has to be for the purpose of conducting space travel outside of national borders. I acknowledge it's a rather literal reading, but I would say it's a reasonable one to take. Perhaps reword it to something along the lines of 'Defines commercial spaceflight activity as any action taken by any persons or organisation based in a any member nation to conduct international space travel for profit outside of said nation's national borders and territories, which may or may not involve passengers' - and after that you'd also need to alter clause 2, because as far as I can tell, at least, you are not trying to allow nations to ban commercial spaceflight activity within their borders (which, as defined, I believe would encompass any planning towards the actual space travel), but to ban international space travel for profit within their borders. I'd also recommend changing it so that member nations are permitted to "prohibit or regulate" international space travel within their borders, so they can for example prohibit it for organisations from nations other than their own."

OOC: I mean, that's all I can really think of to comment on. I'm extremely far from being anywhere near an expert on this subject, so for all I know there could be something grievously wrong with it, but personally if this got submitted fairly soon maybe with some of the edits I've suggested I'd be in support

I appreciate the feedback!

So for the first clause, I have decided to use your variation. Hopefully that clears it up.

For the second clause, I have made the changes you have advised.

Do the changes clear up the issues you had?

[Excidium Planetis]

OOC: Since the Tikrr mainly fly on the outside of the building and enter through windows (walking on flat surfaces is difficult/uncomfortable, plus they as a species are somewhat claustrophobic), I know I've written about office and other windows before, and rather than defenestration, whatever word is the opposite of that, since the hivemind's office's (former Araraukarian office) windows have certainly worked as a way in to at least two ambassadors, when the point was to avoid being seen walking through the corridors.

Still, I and many others find it much more funny to have the building - and immediate environs - to be some kind of weird multiversal pocket dimension, and both time and space being "off" in and around it. Like, it's a weird place, no attempt to explain it as anything but a weird place. But it being donut-shape I'm just not buying. I'd rather believe that whoever was commissioned to build the pool, built one on each side of a rectangular building, just so they could justify billing the Building Management five times...

Araraukarian peeps are always surprised that anyone had any trouble getting office spaces or living quarters, because they're basically all bureaucrats themselves and so "talk the same language" with Building Management gnomes... basically knowing all the secret handshakes. But that's just because it's funny for me to think that all bureaucrats everywhere are some kind of secret cabal.

The Excidian offices (I believe we canonically had more than one) all don't have windows, as they are in the interior of the building. How they got those, I don't know.

Perhaps instead of a donut, the building is shaped like so:
The Reflecting pool is rectangular, and the WAHQ is inside the Reflecting pool (so that the pool wraps around the outside of the building)? Or it could be the reverse, the HQ could be rectangular with a large courtyard in the middle where the Reflecting pool is.

Also I'm surprised SL remembered that I wrote in a spacecraft landing strip, I had actually forgotten about that.

[Maowi]

OOC: As far as I can tell, that seems fine!

[Araraukar]

Perhaps instead of a donut, the building is shaped like so:
The Reflecting pool is rectangular, and the WAHQ is inside the Reflecting pool (so that the pool wraps around the outside of the building)? Or it could be the reverse, the HQ could be rectangular with a large courtyard in the middle where the Reflecting pool is.

Also I'm surprised SL remembered that I wrote in a spacecraft landing strip, I had actually forgotten about that.

OOC: I'm fairly sure an inner courtyard has been mentioned before, but to my knowledge it has a garden (in early days of PPU, I'm fairly sure I referenced it in an IC post too), and the reflecting pool is on the outside. Or pools.

Also, didn't you also have a dropship or something take off from the top of the building? There are helicopter landing pads there at least, but fairly sure more than one ambassador has come in in a small dropship there too.

And also, there have to be any number of landing strips for planes and spacecraft both, as well as docks both oceanic and freshwater, and presumably some people arrive by train or car (or horse as I remember one case) or foot as well, so basically the building being on the tip of a peninsula would make the most sense. Dealing with it all as there being "portals" or at least "conjoined spaces" connecting the various worlds to it, makes the most sense to me at least.

IC: "Is it intentional that a nation that's only starting on their spaceflight activities, is excempt of clause 3, yet banned from starting without complying with it by clause 4? You can't have ongoing activities if you're just starting out, so you can't be compliant with clause 3, yet clause 4 bans you from doing anything if you're not compliant with it."

[Kaschovia]

Perhaps instead of a donut, the building is shaped like so:
The Reflecting pool is rectangular, and the WAHQ is inside the Reflecting pool (so that the pool wraps around the outside of the building)? Or it could be the reverse, the HQ could be rectangular with a large courtyard in the middle where the Reflecting pool is.

Also I'm surprised SL remembered that I wrote in a spacecraft landing strip, I had actually forgotten about that.

OOC: I'm fairly sure an inner courtyard has been mentioned before, but to my knowledge it has a garden (in early days of PPU, I'm fairly sure I referenced it in an IC post too), and the reflecting pool is on the outside. Or pools.

Also, didn't you also have a dropship or something take off from the top of the building? There are helicopter landing pads there at least, but fairly sure more than one ambassador has come in in a small dropship there too.

And also, there have to be any number of landing strips for planes and spacecraft both, as well as docks both oceanic and freshwater, and presumably some people arrive by train or car (or horse as I remember one case) or foot as well, so basically the building being on the tip of a peninsula would make the most sense. Dealing with it all as there being "portals" or at least "conjoined spaces" connecting the various worlds to it, makes the most sense to me at least.

IC: "Is it intentional that a nation that's only starting on their spaceflight activities, is excempt of clause 3, yet banned from starting without complying with it by clause 4? You can't have ongoing activities if you're just starting out, so you can't be compliant with clause 3, yet clause 4 bans you from doing anything if you're not compliant with it."

"Good catch. Perhaps changing the clause to '... all member nations in which there is commercial spaceflight activity:' might solve that?"

[Araraukar]

"Good catch. Perhaps changing the clause to '... all member nations in which there is commercial spaceflight activity:' might solve that?"

"Sounds acceptable. The word "ongoing" was creating the problem there."

[Kaschovia]

"Good catch. Perhaps changing the clause to '... all member nations in which there is commercial spaceflight activity:' might solve that?"

"Sounds acceptable. The word "ongoing" was creating the problem there."

"Edited."

[Kenmoria]

(OOC: Clause five should have ‘; and,’ rather than ‘, and;’. The semicolon should be before the ‘and’, and the comma after it.)

[Kaschovia]

(OOC: Clause five should have ‘; and,’ rather than ‘, and;’. The semicolon should be before the ‘and’, and the comma after it.)

Edited.

[Kaschovia]

I am going to consider submitting this by the end of February if nothing else is suggested to be changed. I believe 4 months is enough time for reasonable consideration, but if there is anything else that could be improved with the proposal, I am alright with keeping the draft up until all concerns are dealt with.

[Kenmoria]

“Mandate 2e might be seen as unreasonable for nations who are at war with their neighbours.”

[Excidium Planetis]

“Mandate 2e might be seen as unreasonable for nations who are at war with their neighbours.”

"I believe you mean Mandate 3e, Ambassador." Miss Schultz helpfully chimes in. "Also while it may be somewhat strange, I don't see how it would be an unreasonable requirement. WA law does a fairly good job protecting non-combatants in war time, so it's not like enemies could use the information from such cooperation to destroy commercial shipping. Unless, of course, Ambassador Bell's office has not done as thorough a job virtually outlawing war as I have assumed."

[Kaschovia]

Is there still room for this or has it already been addressed by another proposal since the thread went inactive? This is very much a proposal I'd still like to work on if the former is true.

[The Orwell Society]

Is there still room for this or has it already been addressed by another proposal since the thread went inactive? This is very much a proposal I'd still like to work on if the former is true.

Not that I know of. A quick search in the Passed resolutions thread shpld do the trick.

[Hulldom]

I actually quite like this. In terms of “if more needs to be added”, well, there’s not likely to be much truth be told given that this area of law is relatively undeveloped IRL.

[Kaschovia]

I actually quite like this. In terms of “if more needs to be added”, well, there’s not likely to be much truth be told given that this area of law is relatively undeveloped IRL.

I appreciate that. It is indeed an area of law that is coming to fruition and I think the resolution as it is, having been through rounds of feedback and adjustments prior to now, is as close to submission quality as we'll get. I think I'll give it a couple more days just in case anyone finds any glaring issues, but after that, I am going to submit it.

[Kaschovia]

This has now been submitted.