[Closed] Ban on electric collars

[Anskerdank]

Category: Moral Decency
Strength: Mild

The General Assembly,

Recognising the effect on an animal’s health

Acknowledges that they can be used to prevent animals from escaping

Noting that they can be abused easily

Hereby,

Defines an electric collar as a collar used to shock animals leaving boundaries

Bans the sale and use of all electric collars

[Kenmoria]

(OOC: Welcome to the General Assembly. Well done for posting a draft here rather than straight onto the submission page, as this gives time for the legislation to be improved. Personally, I think that electric collars are too niche and specific a subject for supranational legislation. You could perhaps focus on animal cruelty more generally.)

[Separatist Peoples]

"Banning something for its potential of abuse rather than addressing instances of actual abuse makes for poor policy and bad law, ambassador. Opposed."

[Bears Armed]

OOC
Category & Strength are correct, anyway.

And "Congratulations" for having the sense to post here first, instead of just going straight ahead & submitting it...

[Araraukar]

Category: Moral Decency
Strength: Mild

The General Assembly,

Recognising the effect on an animal’s health

Acknowledges that they can be used to prevent animals from escaping

Noting that they can be abused easily

Hereby,

Defines an electric collar as a collar used to shock animals leaving boundaries

Bans the sale and use of all electric collars

OOC: The definition would make this not apply to many electric collars used in RL. (I haven't personally ever heard of that use for them.)

Also, the preamble talks about "them" without any reference of what it's talking about. The title does not count as part of the proposal text.

[Denathor]

You’ll have to be a bit more specific on your points if you expect support for this. For example:

Recognising the effect on an animal’s health

The effects of what, and what are they?

Acknowledges that they can be used to prevent animals from escaping

From where? In what context?

Noting that they can be abused easily

How?

Defines an electric collar as a collar used to shock animals leaving boundaries

You need a better definition here. This feels awkward.

Bans the sale and use of all electric collars

Under all circumstances?

[The COT Corporation]

OOC
Category & Strength are correct, anyway.

And "Congratulations" for having the sense to post here first, instead of just going straight ahead & submitting it...

This. Lucky they didn't make the same mistake I did when I joined...

[Teretstein]

Ambassador,

Please suggest an alternative to keep an animal confined in its own designated area if you want me to support this. There is no chance that I will support a bill that allows a dog (which are almost always the recipients of these collars) to roam free in a neighborhood without some method of restraint.

Do you suggest that the owner always be present and have a choke collar on the animal when outdoors?

[Araraukar]

Ambassador,

Please suggest an alternative to keep an animal confined in its own designated area if you want me to support this. There is no chance that I will support a bill that allows a dog (which are almost always the recipients of these collars) to roam free in a neighborhood without some method of restraint.

Do you suggest that the owner always be present and have a choke collar on the animal when outdoors?

"Have you never heard of fences, ambassador?" Linda asked with a raised eyebrow.

[Stateless Territories]

I approve

[Jebslund]

Ambassador,

Please suggest an alternative to keep an animal confined in its own designated area if you want me to support this. There is no chance that I will support a bill that allows a dog (which are almost always the recipients of these collars) to roam free in a neighborhood without some method of restraint.

Do you suggest that the owner always be present and have a choke collar on the animal when outdoors?

"Have you never heard of fences, ambassador?" Linda asked with a raised eyebrow.

"Fences may be climbed, jumped, or dug under. More layers are rarely a bad idea when preventing escape.", Sofia Kerman states with the air of a teacher lecturing a particularly slow pupil, "In fact, there is a neighborhood near mine in which, due to an otherwise popular local ordinance, fences may not be more than four feet in height. One particularly lazy resident has ill-trained dogs that regularly hop the fence.", she continues in the same manner, "Well, had. They were confiscated and rehomed after one of them attacked and killed a neighbor's cat. So long as they are not being abused, electric collars are nothing more than another tool in the toolbox for keeping animals where they ought to be. Abusus non tollit usum, Ambassadors."

[Araraukar]

"And you both exhibit appalling lack of knowledge of discipline and training. A well-trained dog will not jump fences, no matter their height. Unless you will happily install shock collars on misbehaving citizenry as well, your claim of it being harmless and effective lacks in believability."

OOC: Dogs are not popular pets in Araraukar, only working dogs (law enforcement, guarding, sheepdogs, guide dogs) basically, so in Linda's experience an unruly dog should be put down as it's unfit for service.

[Jebslund]

"And you both exhibit appalling lack of knowledge of discipline and training. A well-trained dog will not jump fences, no matter their height. Unless you will happily install shock collars on misbehaving citizenry as well, your claim of it being harmless and effective lacks in believability."

OOC: Dogs are not popular pets in Araraukar, only working dogs (law enforcement, guarding, sheepdogs, guide dogs) basically, so in Linda's experience an unruly dog should be put down as it's unfit for service.

"Ah. I see you've discovered a way to speak with dogs and rehabilitate them through methods other than carrot-and-stick methodology.", Sofia Kerman sarcastically answers, "Care to share the secret?", she asks, pausing briefly for effect before continuing in the tone one uses when dealing with someone rather dull-witted, "In case you missed the sarcasm, Ambassador, one does not put shock collars on the citizenry for the simple reason that we have still more effective methods of keeping them in line, most not involving even the minor discomfort of a properly-adjusted shock collar, which, before you comment, I have worn and had used on me. I am not sure how humans operate, but Kerbals are able to reason and communicate through words by way of a shared language. We are able to teach our young discipline from a very young age, instill in them values which are compatible with living in a society, and offer them the means to live a life not involving crimes. Those who misbehave may be retrained and helped to move past whatever the root of their misbehavior is. These are things dogs, unless I've missed some great evolutionary leap, are incapable of. There is also the small matter of the animals not being born fully trained. There is an interim period, which, especially with animals confiscated from neglectful owners, the animals will still act like untrained animals. Even then, such devices are ideally the last line of defenses, not the first.".

[Araraukar]

"There is also the small matter of the animals not being born fully trained. There is an interim period, which, especially with animals confiscated from neglectful owners, the animals will still act like untrained animals. Even then, such devices are ideally the last line of defenses, not the first.".

"And while the animals is untrained, there's no reason to let it out unsupervised. It's not that hard a concept, really."

[Liberimery]

Category: Moral Decency
Strength: Mild

The General Assembly,

Recognising the effect on an animal’s health

Acknowledges that they can be used to prevent animals from escaping

Noting that they can be abused easily

Hereby,

Defines an electric collar as a collar used to shock animals leaving boundaries

Bans the sale and use of all electric collars

OOC: The definition would make this not apply to many electric collars used in RL. (I haven't personally ever heard of that use for them.)

Also, the preamble talks about "them" without any reference of what it's talking about. The title does not count as part of the proposal text.

OOC: I actually used it on my dog to stop her from escaping exactly once (because she stopped trying after that.). Long story short she was prone to running around the neighborhood and there was a school within view of the house and a major highway not that much further away. She only really ran when she was chased, so it was play for her and she couldn’t understand why it was not something we enjoyed but couldn’t break her of the habit. On the occasion we had the shock collar we knew she was digging under a fence so we got the shock collar to stop her so I could close the gap. I will admit to not operating the device properly, but even on max setting for the collar, the shock was not harmful enough to do any damage.

She passed away late last year some 10 years after the incident, at an average age for her breed. She also never ran far from me since that day.

[The Land of the Ephyral]

"But how else are we meant to control our slaves?" - Diplomatic Legate to the WA of the Freehold

[The New Nordic Union]

"But how else are we meant to control our slaves?" - Diplomatic Legate to the WA of the Freehold

Katrin slides towards the Diplomatic Legate a pamphlet which is titled 'General Assembly Resolution #23: Ban on Slavery and Trafficking'.

[The Land of the Ephyral]

Katrin slides towards the Diplomatic Legate a pamphlet which is titled 'General Assembly Resolution #23: Ban on Slavery and Trafficking'.

"Ah I'm sure it's just a guideline."

[Araraukar]

OOC: I actually used it on my dog to stop her from escaping exactly once (because she stopped trying after that.)

OOC: So in other words you used it as a training aid, which is how I've heard of it being used before, rather than having it on her all the time?

[Liberimery]

OOC: I actually used it on my dog to stop her from escaping exactly once (because she stopped trying after that.)

OOC: So in other words you used it as a training aid, which is how I've heard of it being used before, rather than having it on her all the time?

You are supposed to have it on at times until the correct behavior is learned. We also looked into invisible fences which lays an underground perimeter that will send signals to a collar if approached or crossed (the shock is sounded when the line is cross and a warning sound is triggered if to close) but for geography of our property it was not feasible.

[Free Santa Rosa]

Comrades, we are forgetting a crucial aspect of this legislation, should electric collars be banned - it also means usage on... other matters becomes illegal. And I don't know about you, fellow ambassadors, but the World Assembly should not be in the business of checking in on somebody else's business.

OOC: I seriously thought for a moment this was about something else and boy am I glad that it wasn't

[Unicode202]

negative

[Kaltovar]

Category: Moral Decency

Eugh

Recognising the effect on an animal’s health

A bit pedantic, but, did you mean affect? What affect are you talking about? Do shock collars make your pets explode? There is possibly an argument for mental health damage, but I'm not aware of any physical health affects.

Acknowledges that they can be used to prevent animals from escaping

I have never heard of them being used in this way. They're universally used to stop barking, or on a remote control for general purposes.

Noting that they can be abused easily

A stick or a fist can be abused easily. Should we ban dead wood and human limbs?

Defines an electric collar as a collar used to shock animals leaving boundaries

By your definition, 99.9999% of all electric collars on the market would not be affected by this proposal.

Bans the sale and use of all electric collars

If not for the fact that it doesn't actually ban the sale of electric collars because of how it defines them, I'd take issue with this - There's a great many intimate situations I've experienced with other humans that were made more enjoyable through the employ of shock collars.

In conclusion, I find this resolution to be overly broad in intention yet too narrow in execution. It is wretchedly moralistic, lacks understanding of it's own language, and attempts to solve a problem by taking away my toys rather than punishing the people who misbehave directly.

Write a resolution stating that animal abusers will be lined up against a wall and [REDACTED] with bayonets and I shall support it. As it stands, I reject this absurd legislation on it's face!