[DEFEATED] Commend Crushing Our Enemies

[Praeceps]

While both myself and other opponents of the resolution as written mentioned potential compromises (including Kuriko), unfortunately we were ignored. I would be willing to always discuss a compromise should Jakker be willing to revisit this resolution.

Your "compromise" was to omit everything he did before he was in TNP. That's absurd, and isn't a compromise. It's a surrender.

Wrong. Try reading my posts next time.

I would prefer that if this material is included in the resolution it is phrased that COE is commendable despite his involvement in raider organizations, eg. Despite...

[Strobemark]

Crushing Our Enemies

It is very fair what you said. Just understand this fact. It wasn't just defenders who voted it down. Voters like me were not defenders. Many do not like the fact that people on this site wreck others' regions for sport. This is not political or some partisan thing where people just want their way. People do not like the mechanic. That was the result's backdrop. Many people here paint this as if defenders are just playing the game and trying to stop some mortal enemy from the past. In actuality, the majority of voters just voiced their viewpoint that regional vandalism is not acceptable. You say award the commendation or don't. That's what happened.

So maybe it is time to just accept this and move on. I have no idea what raids you've done or who you led or when you left. I do know that raiding is vandalism. That is not from a defender, but someone who actually uses regions and forums for what they were made for. Whether that's RP, worldbuilding or simple socialization. I'm sick of seeing people worried anytime a founder goes inactive. Why should they have to wonder whether people will come in with higher numbers and mess everything up? Why is that accepted or legal? Why do site moderators encourage vandalism? How many people have quit the game or abandoned regions because of raider organizations? Those are bigger concerns than whether or not some raider gets a profile badge.

Vote for one raider, soon more will get commended. It just legitimizes the entire thing even more.

I second this ^

[SherpDaWerp]

See, I don't get why everyone is saying that a Condemnation is inappropriate. Multiple times, it has been said that Condemnations are just "bad" badges of honor.

Yes, but it's a badge of honor, either way. One just has the flavor of being "good," while the other is flavored "bad." Most of the Condemnations you see in the SC are actually Commendations written with the IC coloring that the nation themselves has shown to prefer.

condemnation as a prestigious award and a badge of honor,

Condemnations are seen as badges of honor

Surely, there should be no opposition to giving COE a "bad" badge of honour, given that they actively improved the bad guys?

[Lord Dominator]

Surely, there should be no opposition to giving COE a "bad" badge of honour, given that they actively improved the bad guys?

Kinda sorta. Things like improving script policies and accepting responsibility post-Predator wouldn't be considered Condemnable because it improved raiding in an OOC sense (and similar with the professionalism bit), while the actual condemnable actions would be more about service to the region as a specific entity (like the HoF clause, or the various positions).

[SherpDaWerp]

Surely, there should be no opposition to giving COE a "bad" badge of honour, given that they actively improved the bad guys?

Kinda sorta. Things like improving script policies and accepting responsibility post-Predator wouldn't be considered Condemnable because it improved raiding in an OOC sense (and similar with the professionalism bit), while the actual condemnable actions would be more about service to the region as a specific entity (like the HoF clause, or the various positions).

So you could Condemn them for improving the raider militia of TNP and TBH. You could probably even frame the predator bit condemnably.

COE played a vital role in the foreign policy practices and regional responses of TBH in the aftermath of the Predator scandal, helping them to stay active while other raiding communities collapsed

Framing it like "they helped TBH stay raiding even while others stopped" sounds condemnable IC while still mentioning their positive impact on the community post-predator.

[Lord Dominator]

Kinda sorta. Things like improving script policies and accepting responsibility post-Predator wouldn't be considered Condemnable because it improved raiding in an OOC sense (and similar with the professionalism bit), while the actual condemnable actions would be more about service to the region as a specific entity (like the HoF clause, or the various positions).

So you could Condemn them for improving the raider militia of TNP and TBH. You could probably even frame the predator bit condemnably.

I guess (though COE to my knowledge didn't do anything with TNP's military)

COE played a vital role in the foreign policy practices and regional responses of TBH in the aftermath of the Predator scandal, helping them to stay active while other raiding communities collapsed

Framing it like "they helped TBH stay raiding even while others stopped" sounds condemnable IC while still mentioning their positive impact on the community post-predator.

That would be a decent way to phrase it, though I'm still of the preference that it stay over on the Commend side.