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by Bodger » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:43 am
by One Small Island » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:45 am
Praeceps wrote:Guess what I'm taking away from this is that more people agree with Kuriko's stance than people do with McMasterdonia's and Jakker's stance.
by Gorundu » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:46 am
Praeceps wrote:Guess what I'm taking away from this is that more people agree with Kuriko's stance than people do with McMasterdonia's and Jakker's stance.
by Praeceps » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:48 am
And don't forget you're also taking away that Europe has a law on sending campaign telegrams to their region!Gorundu wrote:Praeceps wrote:Guess what I'm taking away from this is that more people agree with Kuriko's stance than people do with McMasterdonia's and Jakker's stance.
That's odd. What I'm taking away from this is most people fall for defender propaganda too easily. I can't even count how many times I see hate against raiders from those who have no ideas what raiders even do.
by Gorundu » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:53 am
Praeceps wrote:And don't forget you're also taking away that Europe has a law on sending campaign telegrams to their region!Gorundu wrote:That's odd. What I'm taking away from this is most people fall for defender propaganda too easily. I can't even count how many times I see hate against raiders from those who have no ideas what raiders even do.
by Praeceps » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:02 am
by Gorundu » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:20 am
Praeceps wrote:Gorundu wrote:Nice deflection. I knew I might have gotten it wrong when I posted it, but at least I was 2/3 correct.
If we want to talk poor debating tactics, we could start with you categorizing the points of your opposition as "propaganda".
2/3 is a passing grade so I'll give you that.
by McMasterdonia » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:30 am
Flanderlion wrote:One Small Island wrote:
The against campaign targeted tag:WA the for campaign targeted tag:delegate.
Correlation does not equal causation, but it looks like those people who received the for campaign decided to vote for, and those who didn't decided to vote against. What I'm taking away from this is that the money talks.
Well, for my one nation who was WA until a few mins ago (accidentally resigned it rather than switching to this one), I got 3 TGs re the resolution. First, a TG from 10KI's del urging to vote against. Second, a TG from TNP's del urging a vote for the resolution. Finally a TG from TBH (Jakker) also urging a vote for the resolution. If anything the tag:WA TGs to individual nations have been heavily one sided towards the for campaign. You might not have seen the second one as it was -delegates. The third was also -10KI, while all 3 were minus tnp, europe and europeia.
by The Allied Tribe » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:37 am
2nd Allied Tribe War is over, The Allied Tribe repels an invasion by ATFF | The Allied Tribe officially bans Child Labor, Compulsory Organ Harvesting | The Allied Tribe states that force must be used strictly defensively, begins armed neutrality and cuts aggressive military ties with all nations
by Praeceps » Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:24 am
Gorundu wrote:Praeceps wrote:If we want to talk poor debating tactics, we could start with you categorizing the points of your opposition as "propaganda".
2/3 is a passing grade so I'll give you that.
I think I'd rather talk about people trusting defender propaganda without question, so I'm going to have to decline that offer.
by Cormactopia Prime » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:36 am
by HumanSanity » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:21 pm
Sandaoguo wrote:HS is worth 100 times more than the insubstantial (to borderline non-existent) benefits the TNP-TSP “alliance” has created over the last several years.
by Praeceps » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:26 pm
by Cormactopia Prime » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:31 pm
HumanSanity wrote:Notice how votes of individual nations are actually making the difference on this one. Maybe you need to develop an argument that is broadly persuasive instead of just accusing us of lying to people, which we also never did.
by Tinhampton » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:44 pm
Cormactopia Prime wrote:...This is not even to mention that the first tag:WA telegram sent is the one people are most likely to read in full and make up their mind based on.
by HumanSanity » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:47 pm
Cormactopia Prime wrote:HumanSanity wrote:Notice how votes of individual nations are actually making the difference on this one. Maybe you need to develop an argument that is broadly persuasive instead of just accusing us of lying to people, which we also never did.
There is no argument more persuasive than "raiders are bad, mmkay" to a playerbase that is largely ignorant of and hostile to the R/D game.
Sandaoguo wrote:HS is worth 100 times more than the insubstantial (to borderline non-existent) benefits the TNP-TSP “alliance” has created over the last several years.
by Garvtopia » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:12 pm
by Cormactopia Prime » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:32 pm
HumanSanity wrote:Cormactopia Prime wrote:There is no argument more persuasive than "raiders are bad, mmkay" to a playerbase that is largely ignorant of and hostile to the R/D game.
I hope we all realize how contrived and elitist this statement is.
One should reflect on this statement as the exact reason why raiding is bad. It seems the vast majority of players in this game would prefer to be left alone.
It's obviously a case of me using popular opinion because it happens to support my view, fair enough. But I think it does demonstrate that most people don't want this to be a part of the game. They didn't actively consent to the possibility of raids. They just want to hang out, post memes, answer issues, collect trading cards, and mind their own business. Why can't we let them? Why does everything have to be about the fun of maybe 200 people involved in the R/D game (and I think that's a generous estimate) when there's something like 21000+ players on the site?
by Lord Dominator » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:59 pm
HumanSanity wrote:Cormactopia Prime wrote:There is no argument more persuasive than "raiders are bad, mmkay" to a playerbase that is largely ignorant of and hostile to the R/D game.
I hope we all realize how contrived and elitist this statement is.
One should reflect on this statement as the exact reason why raiding is bad. It seems the vast majority of players in this game would prefer to be left alone.
It's obviously a case of me using popular opinion because it happens to support my view, fair enough. But I think it does demonstrate that most people don't want this to be a part of the game. They didn't actively consent to the possibility of raids. They just want to hang out, post memes, answer issues, collect trading cards, and mind their own business. Why can't we let them? Why does everything have to be about the fun of maybe 200 people involved in the R/D game (and I think that's a generous estimate) when there's something like 21000+ players on the site?
by Third ZSeparatists » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:16 pm
The Allied Tribe wrote:For. It’s honest; what more do you want?
by Superbunny » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:27 pm
One Small Island wrote:Green Days and Equality wrote:It is still very close to call but let me say i find it interesting that almost a 2/3rds majority of individual nation are against while the slight majority of delegate votes are in favor. I think individual nations don't want to commend a raider
The against campaign targeted tag:WA the for campaign targeted tag:delegate.
Correlation does not equal causation, but it looks like those people who received the for campaign decided to vote for, and those who didn't decided to vote against. What I'm taking away from this is that the money talks.
Cormactopia Prime wrote:There is no argument more persuasive than "raiders are bad, mmkay" to a playerbase that is largely ignorant of and hostile to the R/D game. As you all well know. This is not even to mention that the first tag:WA telegram sent is the one people are most likely to read in full and make up their mind based on.
by Aumeltopia » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:28 pm
Garvtopia wrote:I'd like some clarification for my benefit, and for the benefit of other relatively-new players who may come to this discussion to figure out what all the fuss is about.
From what I gather:
- The World Assembly is analogous to the UN, and is an in-character institution. We're meant to vote on resolutions as if we were world leaders representing the WA member nations we control.
- The Security Council, as part of the WA, is also in-character. It exists to condemn or commend nations/regions who have acted against or in accordance with the spread of interregional peace and goodwill.
- Raiding is an act analogous to coalitions of belligerent nations invading and occupying smaller coalitions of nations.
- Raiding and defending are a part of the game enjoyed by a vanishingly small minority of players, and most who have been raided report annoyance that someone else has interfered with their work and may have lost hours of work as a result. Additionally, from the perspective of a real-world nation or region, being invaded and occupied would almost universally be considered a Bad Thing.
If the Security Council were intended to recognize players who have brought a positive contribution to the game as a whole, I could see how this proposal currently stands at over 45% of the vote in favor. After all, raiders gonna raid... it's nice that someone has taken it upon themselves to make sure it's done in a more civil manner. But since the SC is intended to be in-character, the resolution is analogous to a United Nations proposal to commend one of the leaders of a belligerent power for being nice about it when they invade another sovereign nation.
Garvtopia wrote:Please tell me what I'm not understanding correctly here, because it seems painfully obvious that this resolution should be shot down, and by a much wider margin than it's currently looking like it will be.
Auphelia wrote:Raccoons are bandits! First they steal your food . . . and then your heart/identity!
by Bears Armed » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:58 am
Aumeltopia wrote:TNP, of course, has every reason to support the proposal, and it is a member of the WALL bloc of mostly Independent-aligned major regions, which have therefore all chosen to support the proposal as well.
by Lux Cathia » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:23 am
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