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[DEFEATED] Commend Arconian Empire

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THX1138
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[DEFEATED] Commend Arconian Empire

Postby THX1138 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:56 am

Third Draft of this commendation is below. A summary of changes can be found below the draft.
Additional comments and suggestions are welcomed.

The Security Council,

Consonant with the tradition of acknowledging nations making beneficial, multilateral contributions, recognizes nation Arconian Empire for their singular commitment to the defence and restoration of vulnerable regions, international engagement, regional leadership, and years of selfless service to the WA community;

Establishing Arconian Empire as founder of Arconian Empire, a small, social region serving as the seat of power, and as commanding the efforts of multiple, benevolent proxy nations distributed throughout the WA realm, including:

Imperial Republic of Arconia, the oldest, and currently residing in The Grand Imperial Alliance, a historically powerful region dedicated to hypothetical and theoretical strategic discussions and scenarios. This nation contributed greatly to the development of these discussions over many years, often in a leading role, while also serving diligently on the region’s Security Council

Imperial Liberation Force, created in response to a 2013 invasion of The Grand Imperial Alliance. This event inspired a program of self-education in the defender arts, motivated by nothing more than a desire to help other imperiled regions. Learning as they progressed, and in partnership with one other, this nation began deploying as an independent defender

Imperial Arconia, created in 2014, by invitation from the founder of region The SOP and in response to frequent raids there. This sentinel nation’s birth marks the beginning of an ongoing partnership between Arconian Empire and nations of the The SOP in defence of vulnerable, founderless regions

Arconia Defender, established in 2015, and active today, this nation replaced Imperial Liberation Force and later, proxy nation Defender Z, as the continuous leader of a small, independent defender force that is now six-years active, making them unique in Nation States

Applauding the proxy nations of Arconian Empire in having quietly and without fanfare, led an astonishing 1000+ missions to vulnerable and occupied regions, ejecting occupying forces, restoring regional communication and embassies, and providing security to thousands of native nations. A very small sampling of regions assisted includes Southfield, Ravencroft, Christmas, New Jahkku, and International Space Station, among hundreds of others;

Highlighting further, notable accomplishments, including:

• liberation of Galactic Imperium and subsequent defence from several later raids, eventual password protection of the region, and then refounded by proxy nation Arconia Imperium, preserving this region’s unique culture, providing security for natives, and allowing the eventual re-opening of borders
• participation in the final operation by collaborating defender forces in the dissolution of notorious raider region The Black Riders, following the April Crisis of 2015
• participation in the liberation of Singapore in 2016 after occupation by raider forces from The Invaders, and with legislative support from this Council
• the single-handed password protection of 7 vulnerable regions, including Sikh Empire, Riders of Rohan, and Calhoun CC, preventing further intrusion by raider forces, and securing these regions for native populations
• the ongoing, parallel deployments of several influential sentinel nations under the common name Imperial Defender on an as-needed basis. These nations deploy to particularly hard-hit regions to deter raiders, maintain a custodial administrative role, and provide a quick, influential response to raider incursions when they occur

Lauding Arconian Empire in the development of an extensive first-warning embassy network through their home region, currently inclusive of 430 regions, and their willingness to come to the defence of any embassy region in jeopardy;

Impressed by the fact that despite their small stature, lack of formal training, and absence of a surrounding network, Arconian Empire has not been deterred in standing against the nefarious forces of Nation States;

Wishing to exemplify Arconian Empire to future generations, as proof that through dedicated action, a stalwart nation can make a significant contribution to the betterment of the community, and, with the hope that others may take inspiration from their fine example;

Hereby commends Arconian Empire.

Co-Authored by Kuriko

Summary of changes:
- It occurred to me that a lot of what I've said in the thread below, should be included in the commendation itself, so I have incorporated some of those ideas
- Moderate rewriting throughout, to allow for these changes within the character count
- Elimination of some of the preamble
- Restructured closing clauses
- General editing for better readability and brevity
02/16/2020 Modest edits, in situ
- changes to punctuation, and replaced some key words at the beginning of several clauses
- restructured the summary clause, for brevity and clarity

FIRST DRAFT:
The Security Council

Consonant with the tradition of acknowledging nations making multilateral contributions to the community, both directly and through proxy nations, and congruent with a customary focus on the most predominant parent nation, this august body recognizes Arconian Empire for their many, and continuing contributions to NationStates

Establishing Arconian Empire as founder of the region Arconian Empire, a small social region serving as the seat of power, and commanding the efforts of a variety of proxy nations distributed throughout the Assembly realm

Believing that a chronological accounting of these nations, and their individual roles and accomplishments, will provide the greatest context, this Council acknowledges:

Imperial Republic of Arconia The oldest nation in the empire, and residing in The Grand Imperial Alliance, a historically powerful region dedicated to hypothetical and theoretical strategic discussions and scenarios. Here, this nation of the empire contributed greatly to the development of these discussions over many years, often in a leading role, and served diligently on the region’s Security Council

Imperial Liberation Force Created in response to a 2013 invasion of The Grand Imperial Alliance by the notorious raiding organization The Black Riders. This event inspired a program of self-training in the defender arts. With only occasional guidance from more experienced defender nations, and in partnership with one other, Imperial Liberation Force began deploying to region after region on independent liberation and detagging missions, learning as they progressed

Imperial Arconia Created in 2014, by invitation from the founder of region The SOP and in response to frequent raids by nefarious forces. This sentinel nation’s birth marks the beginning of a lengthy partnership between Arconian Empire and The SOP in defence of vulnerable founderless regions

Arconia Defender Created in 2015, this nation replaced Imperial Liberation Force in the defender efforts of the empire, and is actively deploying today, and in continuing partnership with The SOP

Celebrating the fact that over six years, the nations Imperial Liberation Force, and subsequently, Arconia Defender have, quietly and without fanfare, led an astonishing 1000+ missions to vulnerable and occupied regions, restoring regional communication and embassies, ejecting occupying forces, and providing security to thousands of native nations over that time

Highlighting further, notable accomplishments, including:

• Liberation of Galactic Imperium and subsequent defence from several later raids, eventual password protection of the region, and then refounded by proxy nation Arconia Imperium, preserving this region’s unique culture, providing security for natives, and allowing the eventual re-opening of borders

• Participation in the final operation by unified defender forces in the dissolution of notorious raider region The Black Riders, following the April Crisis of 2015

• Participation in the liberation of Singapore in 2016 after occupation by raider forces from The Invaders, and with legislative support from this Council

• The single-handed password protection of 7 vulnerable regions over six years, including Sikh Empire, Riders of Rohan, and Calhoun CC preventing further intrusion by raider forces, and securing these regions for native populations

• The ongoing, parallel deployments of several influential sentinel nations under the common name Imperial Defender on an as-needed basis. These nations deploy to particularly hard-hit regions to deter raiders, maintain a custodial administrative role, and provide quick response to raider incursion when it occurs

Applauding Arconian Empire in the development of an extensive first-warning embassy network through Arconian Empire, currently inclusive of 430 regions throughout the world, and lauding their willingness to come to the defence of any embassy region in jeopardy

Concluding that the fine example set by Arconian Empire serves as a blueprint for multi-tiered community engagement. Their singular dedication to the defence of the vulnerable, and humility in doing so, gives credence to the belief that one well-intentioned nation can peaceably expand into a benevolent empire worthy of acknowledgement by this esteemed Council

Hereby, commends Arconian Empire

Co-Authored by Kuriko

SECOND DRAFT:
The Security Council;

Consonant with the tradition of acknowledging nations making beneficial, multilateral contributions, this Security Council recognizes nation Arconian Empire for their singular commitment to the defence and restoration of vulnerable regions, international engagement, and years of selfless service to the WA community;

Establishing Arconian Empire as founder of the region Arconian Empire, a small, social region serving as the seat of power, and commanding the efforts of multiple proxy nations distributed throughout the WA realm;

Believing that a chronological accounting of these nations and their individual roles and accomplishments will provide the greatest context, the Security Council recognizes, as proxy nations of Arconian Empire:

Imperial Republic of Arconia, the oldest, and currently residing in The Grand Imperial Alliance, a historically powerful region dedicated to hypothetical and theoretical strategic discussions and scenarios. Here, this nation contributed greatly to the development of these discussions over many years, often in a leading role, while also serving diligently on the region’s Security Council

Imperial Liberation Force, created in response to a 2013 invasion of The Grand Imperial Alliance. This event inspired a program of self-education in the defender arts, motivated by nothing more than a desire to help imperilled regions. Learning as they progressed, and in partnership with one other, Imperial Liberation Force began deploying to region after region on independent liberation and detagging missions

Imperial Arconia, created in 2014, by invitation from the founder of region The SOP and in response to frequent raids there. This sentinel nation’s birth marks the beginning of an ongoing partnership with nations of the region The SOP in defence of vulnerable, founderless regions

Arconia Defender, established in 2015, this nation replaced Imperial Liberation Force and later, proxy nation Defender Z, and continues to lead deployments to this day, in partnership with nations of The SOP

Celebrating the fact that over six years, the nations Imperial Liberation Force, Defender Z, and subsequently, Arconia Defender have, quietly and without fanfare, led an astonishing 1000+ missions to vulnerable and occupied regions, restoring regional communication and embassies, ejecting occupying forces, and providing security to thousands of native nations over that time. A very small sampling of regions assisted includes Southfield, Ravencroft, Christmas, New Jahkku, and International Space Station, among hundreds of others;

Highlighting further, notable accomplishments, including:

• liberation of Galactic Imperium and subsequent defence from several later raids, eventual password protection of the region, and then refounded by proxy nation Arconia Imperium, preserving this region’s unique culture, providing security for natives, and allowing the eventual re-opening of borders

• participation in the final operation by collaborating defender forces in the dissolution of notorious raider region The Black Riders, following the April Crisis of 2015

• participation in the liberation of Singapore in 2016 after occupation by raider forces from The Invaders, and with legislative support from this Council

• the single-handed password protection of 7 vulnerable regions, including Sikh Empire, Riders of Rohan, and Calhoun CC preventing further intrusion by raider forces, and securing these regions for native populations

• the ongoing, parallel deployments of several influential sentinel nations under the common name Imperial Defender on an as-needed basis. These nations deploy to particularly hard-hit regions to deter raiders, maintain a custodial administrative role, and provide a quick, influential response to raider incursions when they occur

Applauding Arconian Empire in the development of an extensive first-warning embassy network through their home region, currently inclusive of 430 regions, and their willingness to come to the defence of any embassy region in jeopardy;

Believing that that which makes Arconian Empire stand apart is the scope of their contribution, their exceptional quality of national character, and the duration of their committed service to the community, all in the context of their modest stature;

Hereby, commends Arconian Empire

Co-Authored by Kuriko

First Draft: 01/07/2020
Second Draft: 01/27/2020
Third Draft: 02/08/2020
Last edited by Ransium on Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:41 am, edited 13 times in total.

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9003
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Postby 9003 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:10 pm

Here are my thoughts pardon me if I stepped on anyone toes I'm also learning my way and place around here.
The Security Council

should end with a , or ; I personally like ;


Consonant with the tradition of acknowledging nations making multilateral contributions to the community, both directly and through proxy nations, and congruent with a customary focus on the most predominant parent nation, this august body recognizes Arconian Empire for their many, and continuing contributions to NationStates

Oh no this sentence ran right away! try putting a ; at the end to keep it in place. Make sure each section ends with ; as well no run away lines!

throughout the Assembly realm
The WA or a regional Assembly or something else?

Believing that a chronological accounting of these nations, and their individual roles and accomplishments, will provide the greatest context, this Council acknowledges:
should be this Security Council

• Imperial Republic of Arconia The oldest nation in the empire, and residing in The Grand Imperial Alliance, a historically powerful region dedicated to hypothetical and theoretical strategic discussions and scenarios. Here, this nation of the empire contributed greatly to the development of these discussions over many years, often in a leading role, and served diligently on the region’s Security Council
What empire? If you mean the Arconian Empire it may be best to put "(henceforth referred to as the empire)" after Arconian Empire otherwise it looks like the SC is "the empire"

Imperial Liberation Force Created in response to a 2013 invasion of The Grand Imperial Alliance by the notorious raiding organization The Black Riders. This event inspired a program of self-training in the defender arts. With only occasional guidance from more experienced defender nations, and in partnership with one other, Imperial Liberation Force began deploying to region after region on independent liberation and detagging missions, learning as they progressed


lower case c in Created
Imperial Liberation Force if this is a nation it should be in nation tags I got confused and thought it was an org
Not sure calling TBH helps the argument or not if in the next point you do not refer to who the org was but that's just my 2 cents

• Imperial Arconia Created in 2014, by invitation from the founder of region The SOP and in response to frequent raids by nefarious forces. This sentinel nation’s birth marks the beginning of a lengthy partnership between Arconian Empire and The SOP in defence of vulnerable founderless regions

More wild Capital letters in Created (I'm notorious for this too!)

Arconia Defender Created in 2015, this nation replaced Imperial Liberation Force in the defender efforts of the empire, and is actively deploying today, and in continuing partnership with The SOP

more wild capital Cs!

• Arconia Defender Created in 2015, this nation replaced Imperial Liberation Force in the defender efforts of the empire, and is actively deploying today, and in continuing partnership with The SOP

Feels clunky to me

Celebrating the fact that over six years, the nations Imperial Liberation Force, and subsequently, Arconia Defender have, quietly and without fanfare, led an astonishing 1000+ missions to vulnerable and occupied regions, restoring regional communication and embassies, ejecting occupying forces, and providing security to thousands of native nations over that time

Examples I can say I donated millions of dollars but with out proof the IRS is still going to be knocking on my door for tax evasion, listing 2-3 big name examples would be great here!

Participation in the final operation by unified defender forces in the dissolution of notorious raider region The Black Riders, following the April Crisis of 2015

The Black Riders here is important to have make sure it is formatted the same as above.
All of these points should also not start with a capital letter as it is a continuation of the sentence above.
UDF is a proper noun a great place for all the stray capital letters to go (Unified Defender Forces)


• The ongoing, parallel deployments of several influential sentinel nations under the common name Imperial Defender on an as-needed basis. These nations deploy to particularly hard-hit regions to deter raiders, maintain a custodial administrative role, and provide quick response to raider incursion when it occurs

Examples if you have them of a few regions that were saved.


I love the draft I approve contingent on fact checking but it appears you have done a lot of research and that is great to see.

Please do take any and all feedback as feedback these are my ideas and by no means perfect I am somewhat new around here myself and love to help out!
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THX1138
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Postby THX1138 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:29 pm

9003 wrote:Here are my thoughts pardon me if I stepped on anyone toes I'm also learning my way and place around here.

OOC: Not at all, feedback is good. Will make fixes, as suggested.
- The first paragraph is going to be re-written in the next draft
- Punctuation wilt be added throughout, and some modest text changes for clarity
- Will add a few examples of regions assisted, just trying to keep the character count reasonable
- Direct mention of the raider org is unavoidable, since they need to appear in the latter text around a specific op. Note that there is another org mentioned among those ops as well. In all cases, these organizations have been italicized, as opposed to linked

Thanks for the feedback, and look for changes in the next draft

EDIT: To your comment re 'unified defender forces', this is not a formal title, but rather my choice of language, since participation came from across the spectrum
Last edited by THX1138 on Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ROM
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Postby ROM » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:37 pm

Why is this nation even remotely warranting of being Commended? They seem like a below average defender who hasn't even done nothing of note. The org that they lead I have literally never heard of, and since when is solely doing detags Commendable? There is no way I would ever support this, please find a better person to Commend next time.
Author of SC Resolution #186 Commend Travelling Region

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THX1138
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Postby THX1138 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:39 pm

ROM wrote:Why is this nation even remotely warranting of being Commended? They seem like a below average defender who hasn't even done nothing of note. The org that they lead I have literally never heard of, and since when is solely doing detags Commendable? There is no way I would ever support this, please find a better person to Commend next time.

OOC: I guess that comes down to what, in your opinion, qualifies as someone who 'hasn't ever done nothing of note'.[sic]

The target is not part of some vast military organization, as are some. They work independently, leading a small team. They're self-taught and self-directed. They work within their abilities to serve the community, and they are motivated by nothing more than a desire to contribute - no awards, no promotions, no overblown banners with their name on it - just dedication and service, and a willingness to clean up the disrespect done to regions by others: Six years of it, 1000+ times.

They've participated in libs. They've password protected and refounded regions, and yes, they detag: Things all defender orgs do from time to time, just at a different scale, and, it is in the context of scale that their work is laudable. Noble, in fact.

I certainly see their activity almost nightly, as I'm sure do many who pay attention, and I would argue that this is precisely the sort of nation that should be commended by Council.

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Bormiar
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Postby Bormiar » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:17 pm

You say they still jump? What’s their jp and some of their switchers?

Edit: when you reply to this I’ll remember to provide critiques
Last edited by Bormiar on Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:58 pm

Full support, coming from a former native of Sikh Empire. They are hard workers, they do the job. They always do their work and do it well. They are a two man team, so what they have accomplished is incredible
Honeydewistania (Nation mostly does not represent real life views.)

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THX1138
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Postby THX1138 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:41 pm

Bormiar wrote:You say they still jump? What’s their jp and some of their switchers?
Edit: when you reply to this I’ll remember to provide critiques

OOC: No JP, no base, region to region, one almost every day or two, depending on what needs to be done arconia defender + crew, then on to the next
Last edited by THX1138 on Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby THX1138 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:04 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:Full support, coming from a former native of Sikh Empire. They are hard workers, they do the job. They always do their work and do it well. They are a two man team, so what they have accomplished is incredible

Thank you. It's great to hear from a native of one of the regions they've assisted.

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ROM
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Postby ROM » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:08 am

THX1138 wrote:I certainly see their activity almost nightly, as I'm sure do many who pay attention, and I would argue that this is precisely the sort of nation that should be commended by Council.

Oh I have very much heard of them, I see them move most Majors/Minors, but that still does not make them Commendable. They jump into regions hours before they update, and are not that efficient either, as they do not try and detag more than 1 region per update. When all you are doing is detagging around 1 region per day, that is not that much in the grand scheme of things considering all the regions that get tagged on a daily basis.
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Numero Capitan
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Postby Numero Capitan » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:24 am

ROM wrote:
THX1138 wrote:I certainly see their activity almost nightly, as I'm sure do many who pay attention, and I would argue that this is precisely the sort of nation that should be commended by Council.

Oh I have very much heard of them, I see them move most Majors/Minors, but that still does not make them Commendable. They jump into regions hours before they update, and are not that efficient either, as they do not try and detag more than 1 region per update. When all you are doing is detagging around 1 region per day, that is not that much in the grand scheme of things considering all the regions that get tagged on a daily basis.


You commended a group for doing the same thing but to give out 'refreshments'?

Arconia doesn't do this for rank or comradery, they just do the least exciting job, under the radar and have been doing it for forever for the benefit of countless regions. If we're condemning nations for tag-raiding then it is entirely appropriate to commend nations for restoring regions. I am not sure why the timing of their moves is relevant, its 100% effective for the job they are doing, we commend nations for the impact of their actions, not our assessment of the skill it took.
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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:36 am

I believe the nominee is the same individual that is also behind Defender Z.

And yeah, as NuCa has said - what Arconia has done is not necessarily flashy or special on its own, but what stands out is the sheer determination and consistent follow-through to do good in the world over a time span of many, many years, utilizing all that they have to give. I think it's wholly appropriate for the SC to also recognize these sorts of contributions.
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ROM
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Postby ROM » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:30 am

Roavin wrote:I believe the nominee is the same individual that is also behind Defender Z.

Yes, Arconia also went by Defender Z as well. However, I still don't think this is really Commendable when they only detag 1 region per update, when you just this last Major had HC and Sakana detag 80 regions- it would take atleast a couple months for Arconia to pull off that same number of regions detagged, and that would be if they were detagging one region per update, which they do not. They usually will detag about 1 region per day, which is in all honesty next to nothing when most tag raiders are tagging atleast 5 regions when they go out and tag raid.
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THX1138
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Postby THX1138 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:13 am

ROM wrote: ...The org that they lead I have literally never heard of...

ROM wrote:Oh I have very much heard of them, I see them move most Majors/Minors, but that still does not make them Commendable. They jump into regions hours before they update, and are not that efficient either, as they do not try and detag more than 1 region per update. When all you are doing is detagging around 1 region per day, that is not that much in the grand scheme of things considering all the regions that get tagged on a daily basis.

OOC: I think you're comparing apples to oranges. If I understand you correctly, you believe that commendations for accomplishments in defence should be based on the target's ability to jump in a timely manner. I don't recall ever having seen that cited in any SC commendation over my 8 years in NS. Nor have I ever seen a target commended for their ability to chase or move to multiple regions in a single update. These are definitely valuable skills - we can call them 'apple' abilities, but that's not the frame being used here.

What I do see cited in past commendations is quality of character, results, sense of community, and important, historic military deployments. This commendation is about the exceptional character of the target nation, their singular dedication and commitment to vulnerable regions, their ability to self-direct and stay motivated over years, their ability to plan and execute without additional tools or an over-arching command network, the fact that they are self-taught, that they do this for all the right reasons, and that they still get results. Let's call those 'orange' abilities. I guess I can't help you to understand why those abilities are significant in-and-of-themself, but that is the frame being used in this resolution.

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Postby Honeydewistania » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:03 pm

ROM wrote:
Roavin wrote:I believe the nominee is the same individual that is also behind Defender Z.

Yes, Arconia also went by Defender Z as well. However, I still don't think this is really Commendable when they only detag 1 region per update, when you just this last Major had HC and Sakana detag 80 regions- it would take atleast a couple months for Arconia to pull off that same number of regions detagged, and that would be if they were detagging one region per update, which they do not. They usually will detag about 1 region per day, which is in all honesty next to nothing when most tag raiders are tagging atleast 5 regions when they go out and tag raid.

By your logic, 10000 islands should not be commended
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ROM
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Postby ROM » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:30 am

By your logic, 10000 islands should not be commended

Here is the thing: TITO is a top notch Defender org. Not only have they been around for seemingly forever, they have participated in countless libs, they are literally one of the best regions at spotting and preventing raids before they even happen, and have been responsible for many successful refoundings of founderless regions which has benefited numerous natives - it is safe to say 10KI absolutely deserves their Commendation, no doubt about that. This Arconia Defender? They rarely spot outside of finding their one detag target, hardly ever participate in libs, and haven't really done anything for Defending as a whole outside of their detags. Still not seeing anything that is warranting of being Commended here.
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THX1138
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Postby THX1138 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:31 pm

ROM wrote:
By your logic, 10000 islands should not be commended

Here is the thing: TITO is a top notch Defender org. Not only have they been around for seemingly forever, they have participated in countless libs, they are literally one of the best regions at spotting and preventing raids before they even happen, and have been responsible for many successful refoundings of founderless regions which has benefited numerous natives - it is safe to say 10KI absolutely deserves their Commendation, no doubt about that. This Arconia Defender? They rarely spot outside of finding their one detag target, hardly ever participate in libs, and haven't really done anything for Defending as a whole outside of their detags. Still not seeing anything that is warranting of being Commended here.

OOC: Appreciate those comments; and, I'll refer back to my statements about scale. Large defender orgs do what they do in NS because they have the size, the training, the tools, and the numbers. I see your argument, throughout, as akin to comparing the accomplishments of, say, a WWII platoon, to the accomplishments of a single WWII tactical sniper. A sniper can certainly not achieve what a platoon can achieve because of the sheer difference in numbers, but that doesn't make their work any less valuable. I accept that this is where you stand, but the logic is specious.
Last edited by THX1138 on Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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THX1138
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Postby THX1138 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:37 am

Revised (second) draft. January 27, 2020. A summary of changes can be found below the draft.

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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:01 am

I'd kill the shortening to "The Empire", as that has ... several other connotations, both within and outside of NS :P

Otherwise, looks good to me at first glance.
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THX1138
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby THX1138 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:35 am

Roavin wrote:I'd kill the shortening to "The Empire", as that has ... several other connotations, both within and outside of NS :P

Otherwise, looks good to me at first glance.

Yeah, I think I agree. I was on the fence about it. I'll do a quick edit and just strike it.

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ROM
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Founded: Mar 23, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby ROM » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:56 pm

I'm still not seeing how this nation is even remotely Commendable. Like yes, they are very consistent and dedicated to what they do, and that is cool and all, but does detagging one region per update really seem like something worthy of being Commended for? Yes, it is a good thing Arconia and their friends do go out and detag regions, and I am sure there are natives out there that appreciate their efforts, as I have seen just in the replies of this thread alone. But yet, being Commended is supposed to be for the nations who have set an example of how to be proficient and make a great impact in a positive manner in a certain area of NS. Whether that be leading a region, being great at R/D, or being a RPer that a lot of people look up to, that is what I think is a good set of criteria for nations to be Commended. Arconia really does not fit into any of these categories, and despite them doing their detag thing for as long as they have, they are still ultimately only detagging one region per update. That is the key thing here, and it is something that other many other defenders could easily pull off if they really wanted to. They move into their target regions hours before they update, which again is something literally any average run of the mill defender is able to do. As I have stated earlier, they rarely ever participate in liberations of regions, which again is something that would point to them being deserving of being Commended if they were to have led and participated in several successful liberation attempts, which Arconia has not done. Also, the region that you listed here that they lead - the SOP, they are not a very important or noteworthy organization, and they just seem to be another one of those small military orgs that really don't have that much of an impact on Nationstates as a whole. Like this reminds me of the proposals that I have seen in which raiders are being Condemned almost exclusively for tag raiding in the proposal, which even in those cases most of the nations tagged much more than one region per update when they went out on their tag runs, and usually have a much better knowledge of NS and update in general, thus allowing them to execute and utilize much more effective tactics instead of moving into a region hours before it updates and hoping that nobody comes along and interferes with your singular detag you are trying to accomplish during that update.
Last edited by ROM on Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Author of SC Resolution #186 Commend Travelling Region

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THX1138
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Founded: Dec 15, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby THX1138 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:53 pm

[OOC]Well, that's a massive wall of text, but I'll try to respond to what is pertinent, given that you clearly haven't read the commendation:

ROM wrote: Commended is supposed to be for the nations who have set an example of how to be proficient and make a great impact in a positive manner in a certain area of NS. Whether that be leading a region, being great at R/D, or being a RPer that a lot of people look up to, that is what I think is a good set of criteria for nations to be Commended.

The target leads several regions, many of them years in existence (cited in the commendation, although not The SOP, as you stated). The target was a significant contributor in an historically very active RP region (cited in the commendation). They have set an extremely positive example through years of voluntary community service (cited in the commendation). 1000+ successful deployments indicates great proficiency (cited in the resolution). They have participated in historic liberations and collaborative defender missions (cited in the resolution). They are respected in the community for their work and by the many natives they've helped (as shown in this thread).

ROM wrote:That is the key thing here, and it is something that other many other defenders could easily pull off if they really wanted to.

Talk is cheap. Commendations are not based on what nations could do, they are based on what nations actually do, and that, in fact, is the key thing here. There is exactly one indie defender group doing this over the last six years - they are unique in Nations States - and that group is led by the target of this commendation.

As I've stated, your opinion is duly noted (I doubt anyone could miss it) but your arguments are unsound, and frequently based on little more than conjecture.
Last edited by THX1138 on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bormiar
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:10 pm

1000 OPs seems historically low if it’s the subject of the commendation and there’s only one detag per. Even then, it’s only one clause if you want to include it.
Authored 4 SCRs | Issue Author | The Rejected Realms' Current World Assembly Officer | Defeated Security Council Proposals | Founder of Chameleon

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THX1138
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Founded: Dec 15, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby THX1138 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:16 pm

Bormiar wrote:1000 OPs seems historically low if it’s the subject of the commendation and there’s only one detag per. Even then, it’s only one clause if you want to include it.

[OOC} I guess my response to that would be, 'historically low' by what metric? There is no other small defender team in NS against which to draw historical comparisons during this period.

When raiders enter a region, sometimes they assign an RO, tag it, and leave. Sometimes they stay in the region, occupying it, and need to be ejected. That's a liberation. It's safe to say that among those 1000+ ops led by the target, there are dozens of regions that were liberated, so the claim that these are strictly detag missions is somewhat disingenuous. It's also worth mentioning that the individual making these claims spends as much time raiding as they do defending, so not exactly credible.

Defending regions is not a p*ssing contest. It's a civil service. Despite previous (and also bogus) remarks about smaller regions in the game being 'not important', to those nations residing in them, their region is their home. When founders CTE, and vulnerable regions get raided (tagged or otherwise) a lot of the time, native populations have no idea how to deal with it. They either lack the power, or the know-how, to eject the raiders and restore their regional home to what it was before the disrespect.

When they are able, the target of this commendation has been there, on many hundreds of occasions, to help those natives. Whether they do that once a day, or twice a week, or five times a month is irrelevant. That they have taken it upon themselves to help out where and when they can, is what is important here. Being critical of that is like being critical of someone who has spent years volunteering in a soup kitchen because they're not the one actually making the soup. It's conspicuously petty.

The commitment to the community, the inter-regional engagement, the helpfulness, the leadership, and the volunteerism is the subject of this commendation, not the number of missions, which, as you've said, is only one clause.

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Bormiar
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bormiar » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:34 pm

THX1138 wrote:
Bormiar wrote:1000 OPs seems historically low if it’s the subject of the commendation and there’s only one detag per. Even then, it’s only one clause if you want to include it.

[OOC} I guess my response to that would be, 'historically low' by what metric? There is no other small defender team in NS against which to draw historical comparisons during this period.

Historically is the metric- I'm comparing it to other similar proposals. It only takes two people to do a detag, so if you want to make the (absolutely fine) argument that they've been dutifully and actively detagging for a long time despite the hinderances of their size, you don't want to say that they've "only" gone on 1000 OPs because they were successfully hindered by their size.

THX1138 wrote:When raiders enter a region, sometimes they assign an RO, tag it, and leave. Sometimes they stay in the region, occupying it, and need to be ejected. That's a liberation. It's safe to say that among those 1000+ ops led by the target, there are dozens of regions that were liberated, so the claim that these are strictly detag missions is somewhat disingenuous. It's also worth mentioning that the individual making these claims spends as much time raiding as they do defending, so not exactly credible.

Oh I agree, but I'm guessing the bulk of these missions are detags, and since those are objectively less important than liberations, it might be better to stress the greater importance of those liberations- for example by putting the liberations before the detag clause, though there are cleaner ways that include a bigger rewrite.

THX1138 wrote:Defending regions is not a p*ssing contest. It's a civil service. Despite previous (and also bogus) remarks about smaller regions in the game being 'not important', to those nations residing in them, their region is their home. When founders CTE, and vulnerable regions get raided (tagged or otherwise) a lot of the time, native populations have no idea how to deal with it. They either lack the power, or the know-how, to eject the raiders and restore their regional home to what it was before the disrespect.

When they are able, the target of this commendation has been there, on many hundreds of occasions, to help those natives. Whether they do that once a day, or twice a week, or five times a month is irrelevant. That they have taken it upon themselves to help out where and when they can, is what is important here. Being critical of that is like being critical of someone who has spent years volunteering in a soup kitchen because they're not the one actually making the soup. It's conspicuously petty.

The commitment to the community, the inter-regional engagement, the helpfulness, the leadership, and the volunteerism is the subject of this commendation, not the number of missions, which, as you've said, is only one clause.

Just picking my battles here, that's your opinion. We almost certainly already know it from the proposal.

Except this: "which, as you've said, is only one clause." <== I think you should take pride in all your clauses.

General notes:
- There appears to be a lot of white space. I'd remove the line breaks in between points in each list, and maybe tone it down on all the lists >_>.
- Sharing their accomplishments through their proxy nations isn't as nice as just saying their accomplishments, as those names mean nothing to most people.
Authored 4 SCRs | Issue Author | The Rejected Realms' Current World Assembly Officer | Defeated Security Council Proposals | Founder of Chameleon

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