by Page » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:26 am
by The Two Jerseys » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:15 am
by Page » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:54 am
The Two Jerseys wrote:Depends. Preconditions like "stop committing genocide" and "release one of the hostages first" are sending a message that "X is unacceptable to us, if you don't agree then negotiations are a waste of time" or asking for a show of good faith. Preconditions like "give us lots of money first" are just a shakedown.
by Thermodolia » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:35 am
by Page » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:38 am
Thermodolia wrote:I fully support Biden on this. In fact it’s one of the things I really really do not like what Trump did. I still believe that Trump never should have visited the leadership of NK
by Thermodolia » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:53 am
by Rojava Free State » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:15 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Rojava Free State » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:17 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:51 am
by United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:52 am
by Cappuccina » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:04 am
by Page » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:32 am
by Page » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:34 am
Rojava Free State wrote:Thermodolia wrote:There shouldn’t have been a visit. There shouldn’t have been anything that legitimatized the NK regime
Trump is cool with all dictators so long as they aren't friends with Obama and don't insult him. He's fine with rodrigo dutuerte, a former school shooter who held two jobs as mayor of Davao City and part time Serial killer. This is a guy who murders children. If Trump is friends with someone as deranged as him, I'm not surprised he would have a strange bromance with kim
by New Paine » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:37 am
by Thermodolia » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:37 am
Page wrote:Thermodolia wrote:There shouldn’t have been a visit. There shouldn’t have been anything that legitimatized the NK regime
They are as legitimate as any other regime. The Kims have ruled over the country for 70 years. The regime is absolutely terrible but you have to acknowledge their existence and work with them. They have a huge army and nukes and they aren't going away any time soon.
by Ethel mermania » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:39 am
by Page » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:40 am
Thermodolia wrote:Page wrote:
They are as legitimate as any other regime. The Kims have ruled over the country for 70 years. The regime is absolutely terrible but you have to acknowledge their existence and work with them. They have a huge army and nukes and they aren't going away any time soon.
I don’t care. We shouldn’t have attempted to legitimize their regime. Just in the same way we never should have opened relations with the PRC.
by US-SSR » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:41 am
by Page » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:44 am
US-SSR wrote:So-called "preconditions" before a negotiation are actually negotiations in and of themselves. "We won't talk to North Korea about what we might do if it stopped making nukes unless and until it..." stops testing missiles or whatever. The art is to make eventual negotiations so attractive to the other party that it agrees to stop the awful thing it is doing.
Negotiations, diplomatic or otherwise, are indeed about each side getting something it wants. The failure of this administration's North Korea policy is that we gave Kim most of what he wanted in return for absolutely nothing; the failure of this administration's Iran policy is that we walked out of a good deal without offering a better one. Both failures can be traced back to the man who thinks he knows more about diplomacy than his diplomats and more about war than the people who actually fought instead of feigning a few bone spurs to avoid the draft. See link in the sig.
by New Paine » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:47 am
Page wrote:US-SSR wrote:So-called "preconditions" before a negotiation are actually negotiations in and of themselves. "We won't talk to North Korea about what we might do if it stopped making nukes unless and until it..." stops testing missiles or whatever. The art is to make eventual negotiations so attractive to the other party that it agrees to stop the awful thing it is doing.
Negotiations, diplomatic or otherwise, are indeed about each side getting something it wants. The failure of this administration's North Korea policy is that we gave Kim most of what he wanted in return for absolutely nothing; the failure of this administration's Iran policy is that we walked out of a good deal without offering a better one. Both failures can be traced back to the man who thinks he knows more about diplomacy than his diplomats and more about war than the people who actually fought instead of feigning a few bone spurs to avoid the draft. See link in the sig.
North Korea didn't get a whole lot from Trump. Almost all the sanctions are still in place.
by The of Korea » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:48 am
by United Muscovite Nations » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:52 am
by Thermodolia » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:54 am
Page wrote:Thermodolia wrote:I don’t care. We shouldn’t have attempted to legitimize their regime. Just in the same way we never should have opened relations with the PRC.
It is not economically nor politically viable to cut off all contact with the PRC. Even the USA and USSR had diplomatic relations and trade in the Cold War.
by US-SSR » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:59 am
by New Paine » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:05 pm
US-SSR wrote:The of Korea wrote:didnt Kim cancel the negotiations because Trump was just doing them purely for show?
Kim canceled the negotiations, which included working-level talks, because he knows he can play Trump for a sucker. He got everything he wanted the last time in return for less than nothing. Why should he negotiate in good faith with any other US official?
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