Gormwood wrote:Seriously, shadow banning would be a lot more brutal than debating with a lead wall. All you're doing is giving away Social Credit Points.
If you don’t want to bother with IM then that’s your prerogative.
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by Heloin » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:16 am
Gormwood wrote:Seriously, shadow banning would be a lot more brutal than debating with a lead wall. All you're doing is giving away Social Credit Points.
by Gormwood » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:30 am
by Gormwood » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:23 pm
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:30 pm
The New California Republic wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:I believe that Mr. Geng Shuen, the foreign ministry spokesperson for the PRC, has said that all that needs to be said at this time to address the truth regarding the barring of Kenneth
Except he didn't. He alluded to evidence but didn't give any.Infected Mushroom wrote:I am satisfied with his answer and I find that it answers all of my queries regarding the matter
The only reason you are satisfied is because he said exactly what you wanted to hear, because it corresponds to the party line that you adhere to.Infected Mushroom wrote:If anything else, this puts me inside the realm of the truth (since the existence of evidence has been disclosed by a reputable government party), and all detractors of this position within the realm of conspiracy theory.
He. Gave. No. Evidence. If anything the accusations and lack of evidence given puts the party, and you by merit of adhering to them, squarely in the realm of lies.Infected Mushroom wrote:The PRC government has come forth and said "hey we've got literal proof that he's the leader of an NGO that tried to destabilise Hong Kong and China"... now the ball has been passed to you.
The PRC has cleared everything up.
Bullshit. It has cleared up fuck all when they have made accusations with no evidence.
by The New California Republic » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:11 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:The New California Republic wrote:Except he didn't. He alluded to evidence but didn't give any.
The only reason you are satisfied is because he said exactly what you wanted to hear, because it corresponds to the party line that you adhere to.
He. Gave. No. Evidence. If anything the accusations and lack of evidence given puts the party, and you by merit of adhering to them, squarely in the realm of lies.
Bullshit. It has cleared up fuck all when they have made accusations with no evidence.
He gave testimony (which I believe) as to the existence of considerable evidence that the Human Rights Watch and other NGOs were responsible for promoting and supporting extremism, violence, and Hong Kong separatism. Now Kenneth is the leader or the “head” so he’s definitely involved. That is itself evidence of evidence in the same way that a sworn testimony in court counts for something.
This isn’t some rando, this is a spokesperson for the PRC foreign ministry. When he speaks, he does so in a state capacity. He’s representing the great Chinese State itself. He’s saying, “look, I’m telling you, the evidence exists.” That’s good enough for me.
Now why is the evidence not disclosed at this point? It’s because the government is still building a complete case against them (all the relevant NGOs).
by Novus America » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:27 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:The New California Republic wrote:Except he didn't. He alluded to evidence but didn't give any.
The only reason you are satisfied is because he said exactly what you wanted to hear, because it corresponds to the party line that you adhere to.
He. Gave. No. Evidence. If anything the accusations and lack of evidence given puts the party, and you by merit of adhering to them, squarely in the realm of lies.
Bullshit. It has cleared up fuck all when they have made accusations with no evidence.
He gave testimony (which I believe) as to the existence of considerable evidence that the Human Rights Watch and other NGOs were responsible for promoting and supporting extremism, violence, and Hong Kong separatism. Now Kenneth is the leader or the “head” so he’s definitely involved. That is itself evidence of evidence in the same way that a sworn testimony in court counts for something.
This isn’t some rando, this is a spokesperson for the PRC foreign ministry. When he speaks, he does so in a state capacity. He’s representing the great Chinese State itself. He’s saying, “look, I’m telling you, the evidence exists.” That’s good enough for me.
Now why is the evidence not disclosed at this point? It’s because the government is still building a complete case against them (all the relevant NGOs).
by The New California Republic » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:33 pm
Novus America wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
He gave testimony (which I believe) as to the existence of considerable evidence that the Human Rights Watch and other NGOs were responsible for promoting and supporting extremism, violence, and Hong Kong separatism. Now Kenneth is the leader or the “head” so he’s definitely involved. That is itself evidence of evidence in the same way that a sworn testimony in court counts for something.
This isn’t some rando, this is a spokesperson for the PRC foreign ministry. When he speaks, he does so in a state capacity. He’s representing the great Chinese State itself. He’s saying, “look, I’m telling you, the evidence exists.” That’s good enough for me.
Now why is the evidence not disclosed at this point? It’s because the government is still building a complete case against them (all the relevant NGOs).
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
by Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:39 pm
by The New California Republic » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:55 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:I take informal testimony/statements from reputable government sources that evidence exists to be evidence that evidence exists (itself evidence).
by Novus America » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:25 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:I take informal testimony/statements from reputable government sources that evidence exists to be evidence that evidence exists (itself evidence).
Hence, I draw a considerable amount of significance from the Foreign Ministry’s statement. And honestly given the sort of rhetoric NGOs regularly throw around, the allegations do not surprise me.
by Tuthina » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:35 pm
Novus America wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:I take informal testimony/statements from reputable government sources that evidence exists to be evidence that evidence exists (itself evidence).
Hence, I draw a considerable amount of significance from the Foreign Ministry’s statement. And honestly given the sort of rhetoric NGOs regularly throw around, the allegations do not surprise me.
Again simply repeating the same fallacious argument over an over (just because someone in the PRC government said something does not make it true) does not make it more convincing. It failed the last dozens times you made it, what makes this time different?
Why do you think it would work better this time?
Again it appears you are arguing to convince yourself, not us.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.
11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!
03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:34 pm
Infected Mushroom wrote:the Foreign Ministry
by The New California Republic » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:44 pm
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:46 pm
The New California Republic wrote:Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:You mean the same perfidious foreign ministry whose chief representative in Sweden spent the two last years shitting on my country until he realised he was on the expulsion list? That foreign ministry?
The same Foreign Ministry that keeps pushing the Nine-Dash Line lie of the PRC's claims over the South China Sea, even though under Annex VII to the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea it has been shown that China has no legal basis to claim "historic rights" regarding the Nine-Dash Line. Yeah, that Foreign Ministry...
by Bombadil » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:46 pm
by Heloin » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:56 pm
Bombadil wrote:Someone daubed Free Hong Kong on the little mermaid in Copenhagen, which I'm not sure helps anything.. one problem of a leaderless movement is that individuals can act contrary to the movement.
by Pasong Tirad » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:00 pm
Bombadil wrote:Someone daubed Free Hong Kong on the little mermaid in Copenhagen, which I'm not sure helps anything.. one problem of a leaderless movement is that individuals can act contrary to the movement.
by Gormwood » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:04 pm
Bombadil wrote:Someone daubed Free Hong Kong on the little mermaid in Copenhagen, which I'm not sure helps anything.. one problem of a leaderless movement is that individuals can act contrary to the movement.
by Bombadil » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:28 pm
by Tuthina » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:20 pm
Pasong Tirad wrote:Bombadil wrote:Someone daubed Free Hong Kong on the little mermaid in Copenhagen, which I'm not sure helps anything.. one problem of a leaderless movement is that individuals can act contrary to the movement.
Saw a bunch of Hong Kong solidarity signs at Tsai's victory gathering. That was cool, though.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.
11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!
03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
by Bombadil » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:33 pm
by Tuthina » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:37 pm
Bombadil wrote:An investigation by Hong Kong’s police watchdog into the conduct of the city’s officers throughout recent unrest has revealed “many shortcomings,” the Hong Kong Economic Journal reported.
The 300-page report from the Independent Police Complaints Council found a failure to separate peaceful demonstrators from violent protesters, the newspaper reported Monday, citing unidentified people. The probe also determined there was a lack of communication among front-line police commanders during protests and insufficient “cease-fire” guidelines when using tear gas, the paper said.
Link
To be honest I'm not sure how much HK will trust this report, whether it will be viewed as ceding minor issues but generally whitewashing police actions.
The report, however, won’t feature extended sections on two prominent incidents that spurred outrage against the police: the July 21 attacks on protesters and subway passengers by mobs of men wearing white T-shirts in Yuen Long and the riot police’s Aug. 31 storming of a subway station in Prince Edward.
Not that it even might be released, and it will certainly be edited by the government..
The report, which hasn’t yet been officially released, is scheduled to be discussed at a meeting of the IPCC this week. If approved, it would be submitted to Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam for possible release in the coming weeks.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.
11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!
03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
by Bombadil » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:00 pm
Tuthina wrote:All the more reason to demand for an independent investigation with the power of actually doing the investigation and not sucking up to the police, really.
by Tuthina » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:04 pm
Bombadil wrote:Tuthina wrote:All the more reason to demand for an independent investigation with the power of actually doing the investigation and not sucking up to the police, really.
Well the simple and sad truth is that China is effectively in direct control of all aspects of HK now, and there's simply no way they will allow an objective, independent investigation.
HK is dead now, it is irrevocably changed, the only possible hope is for the CCP to die.
Interestingly, for the first time ever, Immigration Department has rejected an employee visa application, word on the ground is they're tightening up on foreign workers. We've already seen in the past couple of years that China has been arresting and throwing out teachers..
BEIJING, August 13 (Reuters) - Arrests and deportations of foreign teachers in China have soared this year, lawyers, schools and teachers say, amid a broad crackdown defined by new police tactics and Beijing’s push for a “cleaner”, more patriotic education system.
Link
One silver lining is that IM might be thrown out at some point as they reform education in HK, they're already closely scrutinising teachers and demanding more 'patriotic' education in HK.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.
11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!
03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
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