[SUBMITTED] Not a Good Sign

[Australian rePublic]

Aussie is right, the fact that GPS is ubiquitous does kind of make street signs somewhat obsolete.

As someone who does daily home visits to folk using my satnav, I have to say the number one thing that makes life hard is houses that have names instead of numbers, as a house name gives you no indication of its relative position on a street.

Sort of. It could still work, but it needs to take GPS into account

Okay. What if I create a validity requirement so that nations who get the issue all have weak Information Technology industries? I could then add something short to the introduction about the low quality of GPS navigation systems in @@NAME@@.

Right now this issue is about twice as long as it ought to be. I suggest losing one option, and reducing the existing ones by a third or more.

Which parts would you say need shortening? I know you're the one who suggested a different introduction, and then approved my new one, but it feels long to me. Should I attempt to shorten it, or leave it as it is and cut down the options?

The other thing is the removal of an option. I'm leaning towards Option 4 — would you agree that that's the weakest link?

No. What I'm saying is why can't you they use GPS? Weak signals? Low population density? People can't afford GPS?

[USS Monitor]

I might do a 4-option issue with 3 of the existing options and then one that advocates people using GPS.

[Australian rePublic]

Aussie is right, the fact that GPS is ubiquitous does kind of make street signs somewhat obsolete.

As someone who does daily home visits to folk using my satnav, I have to say the number one thing that makes life hard is houses that have names instead of numbers, as a house name gives you no indication of its relative position on a street.

Sort of. It could still work, but it needs to take GPS into account

Okay. What if I create a validity requirement so that nations who get the issue all have weak Information Technology industries? I could then add something short to the introduction about the low quality of GPS navigation systems in @@NAME@@.

Right now this issue is about twice as long as it ought to be. I suggest losing one option, and reducing the existing ones by a third or more.

Which parts would you say need shortening? I know you're the one who suggested a different introduction, and then approved my new one, but it feels long to me. Should I attempt to shorten it, or leave it as it is and cut down the options?

The other thing is the removal of an option. I'm leaning towards Option 4 — would you agree that that's the weakest link?

I was thinking more along the lines of you're within 500 metres of your destination, and you don't know which exact street to vear into, because it's too close for your GPS to know where you are. Lack of visible numbers on houses makes driving impossible. The GPS will tell you when you arrive, but not which is number 63 (this is something I had to contend with when I used to deliver for UberEats). The lack of numbers makes life impossible. You don't know if you took the right turn off to take when the GPS tells you to turn left at Shell St, (or right, depending on which side of the road you drive on), so you're still not 100% sure if you're about to turn onto Shell St. Stuff like that (something I've also faced, IRL). Even though GPS exists, it's not perfect and physical street signs are required. Plus not mention the millions who have no GPS

[Candlewhisper Archive]

No, I don't think you should validity lock it. GPS is common enough now that even people in third world countries may have access to it.

Instead, I'd suggest changing the underlying dilemma to one that can't be solved by GPS.

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

Right now this issue is about twice as long as it ought to be. I suggest losing one option, and reducing the existing ones by a third or more.

Okay. What if I create a validity requirement so that nations who get the issue all have weak Information Technology industries? I could then add something short to the introduction about the low quality of GPS navigation systems in @@NAME@@.

No. What I'm saying is why can't you they use GPS? Weak signals? Low population density? People can't afford GPS?

I was thinking more along the lines of you're within 500 metres of your destination, and you don't know which exact street to vear into, because it's too close for your GPS to know where you are. Lack of visible numbers on houses makes driving impossible. The GPS will tell you when you arrive, but not which is number 63 (this is something I had to contend with when I used to deliver for UberEats). The lack of numbers makes life impossible. You don't know if you took the right turn off to take when the GPS tells you to turn left at Shell St, (or right, depending on which side of the road you drive on), so you're still not 100% sure if you're about to turn onto Shell St. Stuff like that (something I've also faced, IRL). Even though GPS exists, it's not perfect and physical street signs are required. Plus not mention the millions who have no GPS

I might do a 4-option issue with 3 of the existing options and then one that advocates people using GPS.

No, I don't think you should validity lock it. GPS is common enough now that even people in third world countries may have access to it.

Instead, I'd suggest changing the underlying dilemma to one that can't be solved by GPS.

Okay, guys. Sorry for the period of inactivity. I've corrected the issue to be one of contradictory street signs, rather than of sparse street signs. I've mentioned GPS briefly as well, and I think the issue is no longer as solvable by GPS. Do you all agree?

@Candlewhisper Archive, I also shortened the issue and took out Option 4 (the one about mandatory signage education). I think the new length is much more appropriate.

I made some general edits too. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[Australian rePublic]

A giant concert venue would stick out like dogs' balls. Maybe make it a less obvious location

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

A giant concert venue would stick out like dogs' balls. Maybe make it a less obvious location

Does this not sort of emphasise the poor state of signage — that it's so bad, even big concert venues are impossible to find? I say this because the event ruined by bad signage needs to be big for it to spark a big debate.

The other thing I could do is make the singer a foreigner who is more lost than locals because he has no familiarity with the street signs. Would this work?

[Australian rePublic]

A giant concert venue would stick out like dogs' balls. Maybe make it a less obvious location

Does this not sort of emphasise the poor state of signage — that it's so bad, even big concert venues are impossible to find? I say this because the event ruined by bad signage needs to be big for it to spark a big debate.

The other thing I could do is make the singer a foreigner who is more lost than locals because he has no familiarity with the street signs. Would this work?

Yea, just make that clearer

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

Does this not sort of emphasise the poor state of signage — that it's so bad, even big concert venues are impossible to find? I say this because the event ruined by bad signage needs to be big for it to spark a big debate.

The other thing I could do is make the singer a foreigner who is more lost than locals because he has no familiarity with the street signs. Would this work?

Yea, just make that clearer

Done. George Crooked now has a foreign driver. Thanks for your help! :)

[Australian rePublic]

You need to clarify, in your issue, that you're refering to the street signs rather than road signs. Also, look into the clusterfrak of the 2018 Commonwealth Games where a bus driver drove in the complete opposite direction and ended up at Brisbane Airport rather than Coolangatta (my guess is that he typed in the wrong airport into the GPS). This driver was from Queensland, but an area of QLD so far away from the Gold Coast that he was unfamiliar with it. This incident will probably help with your issue

[Australian rePublic]

**snip**
The Sherpa Empire's capital district is very rural, but that's unusual. Previous issues have often assumed that @@CAPITAL@@ is a large city.

I don't like the assumption that @@CAPITAL@@ is the largest city in the country. I've tried to get it changed before, whereby we have a seperate @@CAPITAL@@ and @@LARGESTCITY@@ field for whomever desires it. I tried and tried, but I don't see it happening now.

[Bears Armed]

You need to clarify, in your issue, that you're refering to the street signs rather than road signs. Also, look into the clusterfrak of the 2018 Commonwealth Games where a bus driver drove in the complete opposite direction and ended up at Brisbane Airport rather than Coolangatta (my guess is that he typed in the wrong airport into the GPS). This driver was from Queensland, but an area of QLD so far away from the Gold Coast that he was unfamiliar with it. This incident will probably help with your issue

England has a city called Leeds, which is in [the historic county of] Yorkshire and approximately two hundred miles north of London. England also has a historic building called Leeds Castle, which is in the county of Kent (next to a village called Leeds) and approximately fifty miles south-east of London.
There have been reliably-reported cases of foreign tourists travelling from London to the city of Leeds and then asking taxi drivers to take them to Leeds Castle...

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

You need to clarify, in your issue, that you're refering to the street signs rather than road signs. Also, look into the clusterfrak of the 2018 Commonwealth Games where a bus driver drove in the complete opposite direction and ended up at Brisbane Airport rather than Coolangatta (my guess is that he typed in the wrong airport into the GPS). This driver was from Queensland, but an area of QLD so far away from the Gold Coast that he was unfamiliar with it. This incident will probably help with your issue

Thanks for the reference. As for the street signs vs. road signs thing — I only ever refer to "street signs" or "signage". Is misinterpretation still possible…?

**snip**
The Sherpa Empire's capital district is very rural, but that's unusual. Previous issues have often assumed that @@CAPITAL@@ is a large city.

I don't like the assumption that @@CAPITAL@@ is the largest city in the country. I've tried to get it changed before, whereby we have a seperate @@CAPITAL@@ and @@LARGESTCITY@@ field for whomever desires it. I tried and tried, but I don't see it happening now.

I'm not sure that that's a problem for this issue… Even if the capital is rural or small, a concert can be held there. The issue doesn't call the capital industrial or crowded.

You need to clarify, in your issue, that you're refering to the street signs rather than road signs. Also, look into the clusterfrak of the 2018 Commonwealth Games where a bus driver drove in the complete opposite direction and ended up at Brisbane Airport rather than Coolangatta (my guess is that he typed in the wrong airport into the GPS). This driver was from Queensland, but an area of QLD so far away from the Gold Coast that he was unfamiliar with it. This incident will probably help with your issue

England has a city called Leeds, which is in [the historic county of] Yorkshire and approximately two hundred miles north of London. England also has a historic building called Leeds Castle, which is in the county of Kent (next to a village called Leeds) and approximately fifty miles south-east of London.
There have been reliably-reported cases of foreign tourists travelling from London to the city of Leeds and then asking taxi drivers to take them to Leeds Castle...

Yikes, that's confusing… :/

[Australian rePublic]

Remember this post by CWA? Where he explains the difference between a street sign and road sign? You should do the same

Much better!

It's still clear to me if you're talking about street signs or road signs though.

To be clear.

Street sign:

(Image)

Road sign:

(Image)

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

Remember this post by CWA? Where he explains the difference between a street sign and road sign? You should do the same

Much better!

It's still clear to me if you're talking about street signs or road signs though.

To be clear.

Street sign:

(Image)

Road sign:

(Image)

Done. Thanks for your help! :)

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

Okey-dokey, so it's been forty-eight hours with no more feedback, and I've had the issue out for two weeks. Is this thing fit for submission now…? Or should I change "DRAFT" in the title to "LAST CALL" and give it a few days instead…?
(As I've mentioned before, I don't have a lot of experience with the issue-drafting process.)
Thanks in advance.

[Australian rePublic]

I would change the initial use of 'street signs' to 'street navigation and street name signs', or something like that. The rest can stay the way they are. Just change the first one

[Australian rePublic]

RE: Description. The streets are named (well, they are named if you use the Western system. If you use the Japanese system, if I'm not mistsking (and I could be), they're probably not named. But whether or not streets are named is a different issue in and of itself), Where was I? Oh yes: RE: Description, whether or not streets are named is irrelevant. The issue is a lack of adequate signage

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

I would change the initial use of 'street signs' to 'street navigation and street name signs', or something like that. The rest can stay the way they are. Just change the first one

Wham, bam, done.

RE: Description. The streets are named (well, they are named if you use the Western system. If you use the Japanese system, if I'm not mistsking (and I could be), they're probably not named. But whether or not streets are named is a different issue in and of itself), Where was I? Oh yes: RE: Description, whether or not streets are named is irrelevant. The issue is a lack of adequate signage

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here… could you elaborate please?

[USS Monitor]

RE: Description. The streets are named (well, they are named if you use the Western system. If you use the Japanese system, if I'm not mistsking (and I could be), they're probably not named. But whether or not streets are named is a different issue in and of itself), Where was I? Oh yes: RE: Description, whether or not streets are named is irrelevant. The issue is a lack of adequate signage

Never been to Japan, but I saw something on TV where people were walking around Tokyo, and the streets appeared to be named, with signs at intersections to tell you which street you were on.

Chinese streets are also named and marked, usually with both characters and pinyin.

Naming streets is not an East vs. West thing.

[Australian rePublic]

I would change the initial use of 'street signs' to 'street navigation and street name signs', or something like that. The rest can stay the way they are. Just change the first one

Wham, bam, done.

RE: Description. The streets are named (well, they are named if you use the Western system. If you use the Japanese system, if I'm not mistsking (and I could be), they're probably not named. But whether or not streets are named is a different issue in and of itself), Where was I? Oh yes: RE: Description, whether or not streets are named is irrelevant. The issue is a lack of adequate signage

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here… could you elaborate please?

In your description, you said that streets are lacking names. Streets aren't lacking names, they're lacking signage

RE: Description. The streets are named (well, they are named if you use the Western system. If you use the Japanese system, if I'm not mistsking (and I could be), they're probably not named. But whether or not streets are named is a different issue in and of itself), Where was I? Oh yes: RE: Description, whether or not streets are named is irrelevant. The issue is a lack of adequate signage

Never been to Japan, but I saw something on TV where people were walking around Tokyo, and the streets appeared to be named, with signs at intersections to tell you which street you were on.

Chinese streets are also named and marked, usually with both characters and pinyin.

Naming streets is not an East vs. West thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes ... ing_system

[USS Monitor]

Never been to Japan, but I saw something on TV where people were walking around Tokyo, and the streets appeared to be named, with signs at intersections to tell you which street you were on.

Chinese streets are also named and marked, usually with both characters and pinyin.

Naming streets is not an East vs. West thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes ... ing_system

That just says they write the address backward, like "Iowa, Des Moines, Forest St 200" instead of "200 Forest St Des Moines, Iowa." It's not a whole different system, and it doesn't say anything about street names.

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

In your description, you said that streets are lacking names. Streets aren't lacking names, they're lacking signage

You're right. New edit done, and description shortened.

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

Ookay. New version, new edits (general shortening and outcome changes), and I may submit soon. Is this ready?

I've mentioned a couple times that I'm not experienced with issue-drafting, and so I'd like to get some input before I turn this in.

[Authoritaria-Imperia]

All right. I haven't gotten any feedback in a while, but I'm trying one more time. I've changed the title to say "LAST CALL", and I'll likely submit in a few days if I don't hear from anyone. Please know that I'm still happy to get feedback from anyone.