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The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, Version IV)

A battle ground for the sportsmen and women of nations worldwide. [In character]

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Commonwealth of Baker Park
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Postby Commonwealth of Baker Park » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:22 pm

Bears Armed wrote:
Alasdair I Frosticus wrote:My apologies for my lack of involvement this WC.
ideal.

___________________________________________________________________________________

QUESTION
If a player is given a red card during World Cup qualifiers,the actual 'World Cup' tournament itself, or the 'Cup of Harmony', how many matches are they suspended for?


The next match. that's pretty standard for FIFA, unless there is some extenuating circumstance that would cause a governing body to add additional suspension.
And ICly, I suppose it's not really enforceable, b/c someone could just RP as the Red Card was rescinded later.
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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:20 am

Commonwealth of Baker Park wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:


The next match. that's pretty standard for FIFA, unless there is some extenuating circumstance that would cause a governing body to add additional suspension.
And ICly, I suppose it's not really enforceable, b/c someone could just RP as the Red Card was rescinded later.

Thank you. I've already used the 'red card was rescinded later' idea in an earlier post, so I intended to let this one (which. at the OOC level, I rather than my opponent assigned to my player) stand. One match it is, then.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Terre Septentrionale
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Postby Terre Septentrionale » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:26 am

It's more realistic when the player who got a red card is suspended for the next match, and it gives you an opportunity to play with your line up and not always use the same starting XI.
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Sarzonia
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Postby Sarzonia » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:28 am

I've tried to stay with any players of mine I've had red carded sit out the next match automatically. I've also moved the rule to all my domestic leagues regardless of sport.

If a player or manager were to get a red card rescinded, there'd better be a bloody good reason!
World Lacrosse Council President. Member of the FWC Council.

Championships won: World Cup 22; World Baseball Classic 18; Di Bradini Cup 8 (U21 World Cup 29); World Bowl XI & XIV; FHWC 15 & 18; Quidditch World Cup 9; AOCAF XII & XXIX; 4-time IBC champions; 5-time WLC winners and Scott Cup champions. First nation to win NSWC grand slam (Baptism of Fire Cup 3; Cup of Harmony 10; World Cup 22). NSWC Hall of Fame

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Bears Armed
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Postby Bears Armed » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:46 am

Sarzonia wrote:I've tried to stay with any players of mine I've had red carded sit out the next match automatically. I've also moved the rule to all my domestic leagues regardless of sport.

If a player or manager were to get a red card rescinded, there'd better be a bloody good reason!

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NSWC Signups
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Postby NSWC Signups » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:37 pm

The poster of this message is probably Equestrian States or Banija as NSWC Signups is owned and operated by the World Cup Committee, bringing you the finest quality in sign-up threads for NationStates' premier football tournament since 2005.

Current KPB Rankings (Post-WC84): here.

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Audioslavia
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Postby Audioslavia » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:08 pm

As promised, the database I created in order to make The Idiot Project is here. To make changes, save the sheet to your own Google Drive or download it to run with Excel.

Suffice to say the sheet is very heavy and may slow down your computer quite a lot.

With all 80 minutes of Episode 1 now released, I'd quickly like to say 'thank you' to everyone for not posting spoilers. You may now spoil away to your heart's content.

More videos are on the way.
Last edited by Audioslavia on Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mriin
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Postby Mriin » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:48 pm

And, piggybacking off of Audio's hard work as always, I've got another spreadsheet to add: All the Scores, Ever! (disclaimer: not actually all the scores, but rather all the WCQ and WC finals scores Audio had already compiled)

What does this utility provide, you may ask? Why, nothing short of a list of every World Cup Qualifying and World Cup match your nation has ever played (minus the first few cups' incomplete data) and a win-draw-loss record to go with it.
Copy the sheet over to your own drive--I thought about opening up the sheet itself to be a central location, but at two tabs/nation it'd get out of hand quickly--and duplicate one each of the 'WCQ+F' and 'Stats' tabs. Enter your nation name in A2 of the 'WCQ+F' tab and voila, you'll have all your results lined up and stats calculated.

There's a lot more statistical analysis that can be done on this sheet, I just haven't set aside the time to really dig into it. But I felt getting it out there was important, as it's a very handy resource for, say, determining if/how many times any one nation has played another, or just getting all your records in order.

I have a (very, very) stretch goal to one day have everything categorized by World Cup (and even matchday, because I am also An Idiot) so that you can tell at a glance when each match happened. But that'll sadly be a much more time-intensive enhancement.
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Cassadaigua
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Postby Cassadaigua » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:59 pm

Mriin wrote:And, piggybacking off of Audio's hard work as always, I've got another spreadsheet to add: All the Scores, Ever! (disclaimer: not actually all the scores, but rather all the WCQ and WC finals scores Audio had already compiled)

What does this utility provide, you may ask? Why, nothing short of a list of every World Cup Qualifying and World Cup match your nation has ever played (minus the first few cups' incomplete data) and a win-draw-loss record to go with it.
Copy the sheet over to your own drive--I thought about opening up the sheet itself to be a central location, but at two tabs/nation it'd get out of hand quickly--and duplicate one each of the 'WCQ+F' and 'Stats' tabs. Enter your nation name in A2 of the 'WCQ+F' tab and voila, you'll have all your results lined up and stats calculated.


I had always wished I kept records like this of my past scores. This is incredible, thank you very much!
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships winner!

(Motorsports, college basketball, and volleyball, too)


Specific Titles: World Cup 50, 51; WBC 14, 16, & 19; WB 8 & 22; WCOH 11 & 39; IBC 13.
Also: CoH 39; Swamp Soccer 4, WVE (Vball) 6; NSCAA 3, 5 & 9; NSSCRA 7
Runner Up: CoH 40, WB 21, WcoH 8, IBC 12, WBC 13 & 15, DBC 21
WC Qualified for: 45, 46, 49-61, 67, 79 (DNP WC 69-77), 81-84.
Games of the XIII Summer Olympiad: Second Most Medals
Hosted: World Cup 54, 67 & 84; CoH 57 & 73, BoF 47, CR 30, WB 16, WBC 18, 26, 40, 43 & 45, Conferences within NSCAA, NSCH 1; WLC 7, 30 & 33.

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Sarzonia
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Postby Sarzonia » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:05 pm

Exciting to have all this data in one place!

Thank you very much!
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Championships won: World Cup 22; World Baseball Classic 18; Di Bradini Cup 8 (U21 World Cup 29); World Bowl XI & XIV; FHWC 15 & 18; Quidditch World Cup 9; AOCAF XII & XXIX; 4-time IBC champions; 5-time WLC winners and Scott Cup champions. First nation to win NSWC grand slam (Baptism of Fire Cup 3; Cup of Harmony 10; World Cup 22). NSWC Hall of Fame

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PotatoFarmers
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Postby PotatoFarmers » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:52 am

So we are at the end of a long but fun WCQ campaign. Though there is still the Cup proper, I think we have to thank the hosts for making the qualifiers such a success! Congratulations to all who qualified for the Cup proper, and for the rest, hopefully we can meet in the Cup of Harmony?

PS: The complete tables and stats for the qualifiers are completed at the usual link: bit.ly/WCQ84Stats . The drive link to the individual sheets are in the main overall sheet as above. There is also the preliminary KPB rankings based on my estimations inside the sheet as well, for those who are interested. Otherwise, that is it from me!

PS2: There is the fantasy ranking table in it, but unfortunately that is not the final set. As for the final results, we shall leave the honor to Ko-oren, the creator of the WCQ fantasy, to announce it, since they have to add 2 columns to every sheet to get the final MD points and overall bonuses.
Last edited by PotatoFarmers on Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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KPB Ranking (Mid-WC84): 76th ranked, KPB = 9.50, Style: +2.67

Check out the latest NSS World Cup/Cup of Harmony results here: https://bit.ly/WC84CoH76

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Sarzonia
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Postby Sarzonia » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:48 am

I agree. This was a LOT of fun; easily the most fun I've had in a LONG time during a World Cup campaign.

Thank you Squornshelous for joining in on the storyline about political tensions between our countries.

Thank you to Trolleborg, Banija, Terre Septentrionale and everyone who RP'd tributes to my coach.

I'd almost forgotten how much fun this can be.
World Lacrosse Council President. Member of the FWC Council.

Championships won: World Cup 22; World Baseball Classic 18; Di Bradini Cup 8 (U21 World Cup 29); World Bowl XI & XIV; FHWC 15 & 18; Quidditch World Cup 9; AOCAF XII & XXIX; 4-time IBC champions; 5-time WLC winners and Scott Cup champions. First nation to win NSWC grand slam (Baptism of Fire Cup 3; Cup of Harmony 10; World Cup 22). NSWC Hall of Fame

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Port Ember
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Postby Port Ember » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:32 am

I am forced to agree with the above sentinents - this was a mightily fun afair! Much thanks and honor to our hosts for turning this rp into a truly enjoyable one.

Ps any idea when the cup proper will launch roughly?
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Cassadaigua
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Postby Cassadaigua » Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:37 pm

Image


Congratulations to the 30 nations that have qualified to the World Cup to join Cassadaigua and Baker Park!

Please make note of the next couple dates:

Sunday, January 12th at 3pm Eastern Standard Time - Group Draw (will be done on discord again)
Saturday, January 18th- Matchday 1 (To coordinate with the timeframe of the Cup of Harmony!)
Last edited by Cassadaigua on Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships winner!

(Motorsports, college basketball, and volleyball, too)


Specific Titles: World Cup 50, 51; WBC 14, 16, & 19; WB 8 & 22; WCOH 11 & 39; IBC 13.
Also: CoH 39; Swamp Soccer 4, WVE (Vball) 6; NSCAA 3, 5 & 9; NSSCRA 7
Runner Up: CoH 40, WB 21, WcoH 8, IBC 12, WBC 13 & 15, DBC 21
WC Qualified for: 45, 46, 49-61, 67, 79 (DNP WC 69-77), 81-84.
Games of the XIII Summer Olympiad: Second Most Medals
Hosted: World Cup 54, 67 & 84; CoH 57 & 73, BoF 47, CR 30, WB 16, WBC 18, 26, 40, 43 & 45, Conferences within NSCAA, NSCH 1; WLC 7, 30 & 33.

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Valanora
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Postby Valanora » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:27 pm

Official Announcement

As the current curator of the official ranking sheet, I am making everyone aware that officially the Host Qualification bonus had been moved to 2.3 points per match from 2 as a result of the discussions we had during the spring and summer. This has been in place for this cycle and the previous, but realized tonight there had been no official statement on the issue. I will continue to monitor if this is the appropriate move, given that the math showed 2.38 to be the actual average.

Incidentally, the official ranks are up to date.
Last edited by Valanora on Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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WC 47, 51 (2nd), WC 34, 38, 39, 41, 44, 45, 53, 60, 67 (3rd), WC 49, 58 (Semifinalist), WC 33, 35-37, 46, 48, 54, 55, 62, 63, 65, 72, 83 (Quarterfinalist)
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Zwangzug
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Postby Zwangzug » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:32 pm

Thanks to Valanora for clarifying the above.

I will note that according to the version of the constitution linked in the OP (3.1 ii), "the [KPB] ranking formula should be made public." If it is current precedent that the host qualifier bonus can be altered by administrative fiat, I would like a presidential ruling on the matter, and/or a bona fide amendment to make that clear.

I'm grateful to ESF for ongoing work updating the ranks, and to the hosts who volunteer lots of their time and effort to run qualifiers. So if adjusting the qualifier points is a good way to incentivize a broader and more diverse host team, then I'm all for it, because having more experienced hosts of large competitions strengthens the community in the long run and reduces burnout in the short. But it is important to have an accurate page to point to to say "here, here's how the scoring works!" Both to explain to curious newbies (and oldbies) and to more quickly clarify issues with unofficial documents.
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Bolgano
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Postby Bolgano » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:36 am

Question Rapid
Remembering that FIFA announced that as of the 2026 World Cup the numbers of teams will rise to 48, the NS World Cup should also have these same numbers of teams?
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Eastfield Lodge
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Postby Eastfield Lodge » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:44 am

BOLGANO wrote:Question Rapid
Remembering that FIFA announced that as of the 2026 World Cup the numbers of teams will rise to 48, the NS World Cup should also have these same numbers of teams?

We'll only start considering after the 2022 WC, which is still 32.
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Audioslavia
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Postby Audioslavia » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:45 am

With regards to a 48-team World Cup I think we collectively decided to deal with it after at least 2022 and go with 32 teams for now.

Section 3.2 of the World Cup Constitution (in the OP of this thread) says the following
The World Cup is the second, and most important, event in the World Cup Cycle. It will always consist of 32 teams (including the co-hosts)...


If anyone feels strongly that the option to have a 48 team World Cup should be available to hosts, they'd need to table an amendment and have two WCC members 'second' it.

Tabling an amendment to the WC Constitution is as simple as re-writing a section of it and posting it here for all to see, giving your reasons why you think things should be changed.

Personally I hope the very idea of a 48-team World Cup deservedly dies in a fire in the real world so that we don't have to think about it.

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Sarzonia
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Postby Sarzonia » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:04 am

Personally, I'm not a fan of a 48-team World Cup proper.

HOWEVER, I would prefer that we discuss the idea based on merits or provide specific reasons why we oppose expansion to 48 teams rather than simply say "I hate this idea" and shut off discussion.

The advantage of adding more teams to the proper is the possibility that it might reward players who RP actively. One disadvantage is that it might "reward" a player who posts a roster and a single RP (or doesn't RP at all) and by the grace of Margaret qualifies.
World Lacrosse Council President. Member of the FWC Council.

Championships won: World Cup 22; World Baseball Classic 18; Di Bradini Cup 8 (U21 World Cup 29); World Bowl XI & XIV; FHWC 15 & 18; Quidditch World Cup 9; AOCAF XII & XXIX; 4-time IBC champions; 5-time WLC winners and Scott Cup champions. First nation to win NSWC grand slam (Baptism of Fire Cup 3; Cup of Harmony 10; World Cup 22). NSWC Hall of Fame

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Audioslavia
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Postby Audioslavia » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:37 am

Sarzonia wrote:HOWEVER, I would prefer that we discuss the idea based on merits or provide specific reasons why we oppose expansion to 48 teams rather than simply say "I hate this idea" and shut off discussion.


You're right. The fact that I said I don't like the idea doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about. That's why I spent 3/5ths of my post outlining how exactly any member of our community could kickstart a discussion on a 48-team tournament right now if they didn't want to wait two years.

A 48-team World Cup may reward some deserving teams and will eliminate the idea of a 'dead rubber' from the group stage. Both good things, even though I find it less appealing that two thirds of the teams will be going home after only two matchdays.

A 48-team World Cup would also be more time consuming to scorinate. There are no draws in the group stages of the 48-team World Cup. Every match must be decided there and then through extra time and penalties, so we'd have to either do the groups manually or build a program/spreadsheet to work out the standings after the AET/shoot-out wins.

Another negative is that the Cup of Harmony tournament might be weakened.

I don't find any of the 'pros' to be particularly convincing. I don't find any of the 'cons' to be convincing reasons to shelve the idea forever. If we go through with it, fine. I'm on the 'I'd rather not' side.

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Savojarna
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Postby Savojarna » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:51 am

Audioslavia wrote:
Sarzonia wrote:HOWEVER, I would prefer that we discuss the idea based on merits or provide specific reasons why we oppose expansion to 48 teams rather than simply say "I hate this idea" and shut off discussion.


You're right. The fact that I said I don't like the idea doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about. That's why I spent 3/5ths of my post outlining how exactly any member of our community could kickstart a discussion on a 48-team tournament right now if they didn't want to wait two years.

A 48-team World Cup may reward some deserving teams and will eliminate the idea of a 'dead rubber' from the group stage. Both good things, even though I find it less appealing that two thirds of the teams will be going home after only two matchdays.

A 48-team World Cup would also be more time consuming to scorinate. There are no draws in the group stages of the 48-team World Cup. Every match must be decided there and then through extra time and penalties, so we'd have to either do the groups manually or build a program/spreadsheet to work out the standings after the AET/shoot-out wins.

Another negative is that the Cup of Harmony tournament might be weakened.

I don't find any of the 'pros' to be particularly convincing. I don't find any of the 'cons' to be convincing reasons to shelve the idea forever. If we go through with it, fine. I'm on the 'I'd rather not' side.


I'm also rather on the con side, but what I'd like to point out is that we could, and perhaps should, consider the possibility of having a 48 team WC that doesn't exactly mirror the FIFA format. Things I can think of right now would be to do it with 8 groups of 6 and maintaining the "top 2 qualify" format, as we've done in some other sports when signups are high, or a system with 12 groups of 4 and giving the top 8 teams a bye in the RO24/having the eight best third placed teams qualify like in the UEFA EURO. Do I think all those options are worse than the WC + CoH format? Yes. But I also think they may be better than the FIFA's system, and we should probably include them in the conversation.
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Starblaydia
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Postby Starblaydia » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:12 am

FIFA decided against expanding the 2022 World Cup to 48 teams in May 2019.

That doesn't make a 48-team NS World Cup discussion mute, but does remove a large percentage of the reason for discussing it. If someone can come up with reasoning why a version of a 48 team tourney would make sense for the NSWC, I'm all ears.
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Recuecn
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Postby Recuecn » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:33 am

I think we should have a WCC vote to see who is in favor of a change to the 48-team format. And then anyone who votes for it can have their membership stripped since they clearly shouldn't be making WCC decisions.

So no, my feelings aren't particularly strong, why?
Last edited by Recuecn on Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sarzonia
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Postby Sarzonia » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:40 am

Recuecn wrote:I think we should have a WCC vote to see who is in favor of a change to the 48-team format. And then anyone who votes for it can have their membership stripped since they clearly shouldn't be making WCC decisions.


If this is a joke, it's the sort of "joking" that can drive people away from this game within a game.

If not, this is exactly the sort of thing we don't need around here.
World Lacrosse Council President. Member of the FWC Council.

Championships won: World Cup 22; World Baseball Classic 18; Di Bradini Cup 8 (U21 World Cup 29); World Bowl XI & XIV; FHWC 15 & 18; Quidditch World Cup 9; AOCAF XII & XXIX; 4-time IBC champions; 5-time WLC winners and Scott Cup champions. First nation to win NSWC grand slam (Baptism of Fire Cup 3; Cup of Harmony 10; World Cup 22). NSWC Hall of Fame

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