I think it’s the most important part of Star Wars lore. The Sith are looking for way to become immortal, while only through the Light Side, and through accepting death, is immortality achievable.
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by Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:03 pm
by New haven america » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:43 pm
Myrensis wrote:Impaled Nazarene wrote:99% of ROS' problems are TLJ's fault.
I loathe TLJ as much as the next man, but the root of the entire ST's problems are, aside from Disney not having a clue what to do with it, largely with JJ Abrams.
He did his typical 'mystery box' thing in TFA (read: set up a bunch of 'mysteries' without having a solid answer to what their resolutions were himself), then CHOSE not to direct or write the following movies, or even to take on some kind of supervising/creative oversight role, thus leaving Johnson free to just toss his half-baked mysteries out and do what he wanted. Which then of course meant he had to "fix" things when got roped into coming back for IX after Trevorrow got the boot.
Abrams and Johnson were both pretty much terrible choices for the ST. Abrams only talent is repackaging the work of other more talented people, and Johnson is way to fixated on sUbVerTinG ExPecTatIonS regardless of whether it makes sense or is narratively satisfying or works in the context of the middle movie of a trilogy.Genivaria wrote:The Imperial training program was notoriously bad at encouraging skill and discipline and more focused on emphasizing ruthlessness at the expense of your comrades. They had a very 'sith academy' mindset.
Yeah, no. Even accepting that as true, which would explain a lot, there is no excuse for Endor. We saw the Ewoks: short, stubby, clumsy teddy bears. We saw their weapons: crappy bows and slings. We saw their tactics: None, aside from that one log trap. Regardless of how screwed up Stormtrooper training is there is no way they should have lost on Endor.
Give me a single platoon of modern Infantry and I'll hold the bunker on Endor and render the Ewoks extinct while I'm at it.
by Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:51 pm
by Impaled Nazarene » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:08 pm
Tarsonis wrote:Impaled Nazarene wrote:He should have died when Rey stabbed him giving her real reason to almost go full darkside. Then he shows up as a force ghost or something and tells her not to do it, that Palpatine is a manipulative shit and that he is using her. Have him tell her that despite all their mutual anger and constant battles that she was the only person he could relate to, the only one he could consider a friend (like figure). Tell her that he chose poorly and that she can still turn away from darkness, turn away from Palpatine's lies.Problem being that force ghost is typically the realm of the Jedi. If he dies before his redemption arc, no blue halo
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Impaled Nazarene wrote:99% of ROS' problems are TLJ's fault.
Oh, please. Nothing in TLJ forced the asinine plot of RoS.
TLJ left our heroes at a low point, all rebels fitting inside the Milennium Falcon, the First Order in a position of power with an unstable leader. You can take that anywhere.
This can be easily shown, too, by the fact that RoS goes out of its way to undo everything TLJ had set up.
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."
-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."
by New haven america » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:11 pm
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Impaled Nazarene wrote:99% of ROS' problems are TLJ's fault.
1. Oh, please. Nothing in TLJ forced the asinine plot of RoS.
2. TLJ left our heroes at a low point, all rebels fitting inside the Milennium Falcon, the First Order in a position of power with an unstable leader. You can take that anywhere.
3. This can be easily shown, too, by the fact that RoS goes out of its way to undo everything TLJ had set up.
by Cannot think of a name » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:23 pm
Impaled Nazarene wrote:He should have died when Rey stabbed him giving her real reason to almost go full darkside. Then he shows up as a force ghost or something and tells her not to do it, that Palpatine is a manipulative shit and that he is using her. Have him tell her that despite all their mutual anger and constant battles that she was the only person he could relate to, the only one he could consider a friend (like figure). Tell her that he chose poorly and that she can still turn away from darkness, turn away from Palpatine's lies.
by Impaled Nazarene » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:43 pm
Cannot think of a name wrote:Impaled Nazarene wrote:He should have died when Rey stabbed him giving her real reason to almost go full darkside. Then he shows up as a force ghost or something and tells her not to do it, that Palpatine is a manipulative shit and that he is using her. Have him tell her that despite all their mutual anger and constant battles that she was the only person he could relate to, the only one he could consider a friend (like figure). Tell her that he chose poorly and that she can still turn away from darkness, turn away from Palpatine's lies.
That...nicely done. That would have been kind of great.
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."
-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."
by Ameriganastan » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:51 pm
Edward Richtofen wrote:Ameri's so tough that he criticized an Insane Asylum and was promptly let out
Sinovet wrote:Ameri's like Honey badger. He don't give a fuck.
Krazakistan wrote: He is a force of negativity for the sake of negativity
Onocarcass wrote:Trying to change Ameri, is like trying to drag a 2 ton block of lead with your d**k.
Immoren wrote:When Ameri says something is shit it's good and when Ameri says some thing is good it's great. *nods*
by Northern Davincia » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:53 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Impaled Nazarene » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:57 pm
Ameriganastan wrote:I do agree thathe should have died after she shanked him. Now I know force healing has been a thing for a while, but it seemed kind of a copout.
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."
-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."
by Idzequitch » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:31 am
by Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:34 am
New haven america wrote:Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:1. Oh, please. Nothing in TLJ forced the asinine plot of RoS.
2. TLJ left our heroes at a low point, all rebels fitting inside the Milennium Falcon, the First Order in a position of power with an unstable leader. You can take that anywhere.
3. This can be easily shown, too, by the fact that RoS goes out of its way to undo everything TLJ had set up.
1. Yes, it literally ended the trilogy despite only being the 2nd movie out of 3.
2. They only had 12 members left and for some reason seemed pretty happy to have lost.
3. TLJ set up nothing and most of what it did it did badly.
Impaled Nazarene wrote:Oh please, RJ wrote them into an inescapable low point. At the end of Empire the rebels still had their fleet, at the end of TLJ there were a dozen rebels, in a galaxy of more people than any of us could guess. RJ wanted to have his movie be the only one that mattered. He somehow made TLJ the first, middle, and last film in a series and fucked up all three things. When JJ has to unfuck your movie you know you fucked up. Should have just had JJ make all 3 and stopped executive meddling with 7 and then we wouldn't have this mess. RoS played it way too safe but where the fuck do you go after the massive disruption of 8???
by New haven america » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:56 am
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:New haven america wrote:1. Yes, it literally ended the trilogy despite only being the 2nd movie out of 3.
2. They only had 12 members left and for some reason seemed pretty happy to have lost.
3. TLJ set up nothing and most of what it did it did badly.
1. The First Order was defeated, all evil-doers were gone, and the rebels were victorious. The big bad of the series was literally stronger than it ever was, and the main cast was still alive. How can you say that it ended the trilogy? They still had the First Order to defeat.
2. Only twelve members who were happy to be alive. 3, Of course, this is something JJ just disregarded, as he started the rebels off with a fleet of starfighters and a corvette. If he didn't take what Johnson gave him, how can Johnson be responsible for the failures of Rise of Skywalker? Star Wars doesn't need to be about a big rebel fleet overpowering the enemy. 4. The dramatic tension in Return of the Jedi comes from Luke's battle of wits with Palpatine, not from the fleet battle.
5. It didn't set up anything? 6. What do you mean by that? 7. Yeah, it didn't set up any empty mystery boxes. It didn't try to keep people hooked with mysteries without answers. 8. It, however, did leave the movie at a compelling end: a destroyed rebellion, a risen First Order, and hope in the form of that force-sensitive boy. 9. That's more than enough set-up for a good movie. 10. A good star wars movie does not need fan theory bait, which is what Rise of Skywalker and The Force Awakens were. Perfectly calibrated to get the internet buzzing with theories. It's a cynical marketing ploy by Abrams.Impaled Nazarene wrote:Oh please, RJ wrote them into an inescapable low point. At the end of Empire the rebels still had their fleet, at the end of TLJ there were a dozen rebels, in a galaxy of more people than any of us could guess. RJ wanted to have his movie be the only one that mattered. He somehow made TLJ the first, middle, and last film in a series and fucked up all three things. When JJ has to unfuck your movie you know you fucked up. Should have just had JJ make all 3 and stopped executive meddling with 7 and then we wouldn't have this mess. RoS played it way too safe but where the fuck do you go after the massive disruption of 8???
It is not an inescapable low point. It is a low point, but do you really think that it is impossible for a movie to get them out of that? How many movies exists where one man has to fight the entire US government? How many James Bond movies are there?
If RJ wanted to be the only movie that mattered, then why did he use so many of the threads laid out before him, and why did he make the rebels lose?
You say that RJ fucked it, but not in any way how. Just that, somehow, RJ forced JJ into making all the bad decisions he did. Alright, here is a list of what I think are the biggest fuck-ups of RoS. You can add some if you want:Palpatine returning from death without explanation
Rey being a Palpatine without explanation, completely going against previous explanation
The rushed pacing of the first act
The mountain of object they had to collect
Force healing
The Reylo Kiss
The rebels conjuring a corvette out of their ass
The rebels suddenly commanding a fleet of volunteers where nobody wanted to help Leia
The hollow fan service
Now, could you explain to me how any of these points were caused by The Last Jedi? And are you really saying that, given The Last Jedi, there is no possible story that could be told? Literally, there is no good story that could be told given The Last Jedi? I'm not saying a perfect trilogy was possible, but was episode 9 doomed to failure? Because there is literally an entire Star Wars universe out there. Don't tell me that a story about the rebellion being built back from the ground up is not a compelling story.
by The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:55 am
by Andsed » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:59 am
by The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:01 am
Andsed wrote:So what exactly was the timeskip between episode 8 and 9. Because at the end of 8 we see that the resistance has pretty much been annihilated and realistically they could not do anything to the First Order. Yet in 9 they have a small fleet at their disposal. Also yeah I think Kylo
should have died when Rey stabbed him. Reys power was really the most annoying part of the movie for me. Like she should not have been able to do so much of the shit she did.
by Jack Thomas Lang » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:13 am
by New haven america » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:14 am
by New haven america » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:14 am
Andsed wrote:So what exactly was the timeskip between episode 8 and 9. Because at the end of 8 we see that the resistance has pretty much been annihilated and realistically they could not do anything to the First Order. Yet in 9 they have a small fleet at their disposal. Also yeah I think Kylo
should have died when Rey stabbed him. Reys power was really the most annoying part of the movie for me. Like she should not have been able to do so much of the shit she did.
by The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:16 am
by New haven america » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:19 am
by The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:22 am
by New haven america » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:22 am
by The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:25 am
by The Huskar Social Union » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:25 am
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