[REJECTED] Waist Not, Want Not

[Candlewhisper Archive]

To me, the most interesting thing about sagging is that some US states felt the need to specifically legislate against a style of dress that is more common amongst certain ethnic groups.

Why are the ethnic minority wearing this? Is it actually traditional in their culture, or did they deliberately make up a weird fashion just for the sake of being different?

Some claim it was a prison chic thing, coming from the fact that you're not allowed belts in prison, and the right-sized clothing isn't always available.

However, like most fashions, it's hard to pin down exact origins. Regardless, it definitely has cultural associations, and those associated cultures have associations with some ethnic communities.

It's also kind of arbitrary to distinguish between a fashion that is traditional because it was in style five hundred or a thousand years ago, and a fashion that is traditional because it was in style 30 years ago.

[Socio Polor]

There's potentially an interesting issue about clothing styles here, but it's not being delivered. Right now, you're issue is:

"Some crazy people wear saggy pants.
1 - Let us dress how we like.
2 - That's stupid, stop them!
3 - Halfway compromise
The end."

Can you see how thin that premise is?

To me, the most interesting thing about sagging is that some US states felt the need to specifically legislate against a style of dress that is more common amongst certain ethnic groups.

The fact that the style of dress is sagging isn't that interesting. More interesting is the idea that clothing styles could be regulated -- for ostensibly reasonable justifications -- in a way that in practical terms disproportionately targets an ethnic minority's fashion choices.

I think it ought to be more like:

1) This clothing style is indecent, and stupid, basically. Ban it.
2) It's stupid, but you can't interfere with the freedom to dress in certain ways. Instead, consider subsidising classic fashion and tailors who make smart clothes, and let fashion's change as a result.
3) Attacking the fashion would disproportionately target ethnic minority youths, whose fashion trend it is, instead maybe educate people about diversity, and maybe make a speech or two while adopting the fashion yourself. (effect: politicians are often caught with their pants down)

So to make sure I'm understanding you correctly CWA, basically you're telling me to add more of a narrative here to thicken the premise?

[Socio Polor]

Why are the ethnic minority wearing this? Is it actually traditional in their culture, or did they deliberately make up a weird fashion just for the sake of being different?

Some claim it was a prison chic thing, coming from the fact that you're not allowed belts in prison, and the right-sized clothing isn't always available.

However, like most fashions, it's hard to pin down exact origins. Regardless, it definitely has cultural associations, and those associated cultures have associations with some ethnic communities.

It's also kind of arbitrary to distinguish between a fashion that is traditional because it was in style five hundred or a thousand years ago, and a fashion that is traditional because it was in style 30 years ago.

Yes, the most common theory surrounding the origins of sagging is it begin in prison and when the inmates were released they were so in the habit of doing it when they were in prison they started doing it in public, they even grown to like how it looked as it made them appear "gangster", "cool" or "edgy" in sense. Afterwards, other people who were not in prison started seeing them wearing their pants below their waistline, liked how it looked as well and started doing it themselves; thus how the trend spreaded. As an ethnic minority myself (I'm African American) I can confirm that sagging is in no way shape or form "traditional."

[Candlewhisper Archive]

So to make sure I'm understanding you correctly CWA, basically you're telling me to add more of a narrative here to thicken the premise?

No, the narrative is fine. The problem here is the lack of depth in the arguments, and the lack of nuance around the issue.

[Socio Polor]

So to make sure I'm understanding you correctly CWA, basically you're telling me to add more of a narrative here to thicken the premise?

No, the narrative is fine. The problem here is the lack of depth in the arguments, and the lack of nuance around the issue.

Oh I see, ok thanks

[Trotterdam]

It's also kind of arbitrary to distinguish between a fashion that is traditional because it was in style five hundred or a thousand years ago, and a fashion that is traditional because it was in style 30 years ago.

I think it's an important difference when the ethnic minority supposedly became part of our great nation and at least officially given the same rights as everyone else more than 30 years ago but less than 500 years ago.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Sure, what I mean to say is that if something is part of a group's cultural identity, then it doesn't acquire more worth for being centuries old rather than decades old.

[Australian rePublic]

I'm sorry, I don't see how this would work as an issue. If you want an issue about fashion trends, I suggest looking into Carribean countries who ban camouflage clothing. That would make an interesting issue

Some Carribean countries IRL have banned civilains from wearing camouflaged clothing. I don't know why they think vicivilians in camouflage would be confused for soldiers (I'm guess that's the reason for the ban), especially considering that civilains would be wearing t-shirts and shorts due to the climate, but nonetheless, if it exists IRL it can also exist as an issue.

Or, another angle you could take is people who cover their heads for religious purposes (burka, hyjab, turban, Catholic/Orthodox Christian nun hut, etc.) This is something leader would actually care about, as it difficult to identitfy people who cover their faces. "His/her pants are too low" is not something I'd see leader caring about

[Trotterdam]

Some Carribean countries IRL have banned civilains from wearing camouflaged clothing. I don't know why they think vicivilians in camouflage would be confused for soldiers (I'm guess that's the reason for the ban), especially considering that civilains would be wearing t-shirts and shorts due to the climate, but nonetheless, if it exists IRL it can also exist as an issue.

I suspect it may have more to do with how camouflage fashion tends to be worn to project a "tough guy" image and is associated with some militant political groups.

[Australian rePublic]

Some Carribean countries IRL have banned civilains from wearing camouflaged clothing. I don't know why they think vicivilians in camouflage would be confused for soldiers (I'm guess that's the reason for the ban), especially considering that civilains would be wearing t-shirts and shorts due to the climate, but nonetheless, if it exists IRL it can also exist as an issue.

I suspect it may have more to do with how camouflage fashion tends to be worn to project a "tough guy" image and is associated with some militant political groups.

Or maybe they just like khaki

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Wearing camouflage is a different issue really, I suggest it be treated as such in its own thread. Nothing wrong with this thread being about low-ridin' troosers.

[Australian rePublic]

Wearing camouflage is a different issue really, I suggest it be treated as such in its own thread. Nothing wrong with this thread being about low-ridin' troosers.

So pants sagging qualifies as something a national leader should give a shit about, but not pineapple pizza?

[USS Monitor]

Why are the ethnic minority wearing this? Is it actually traditional in their culture, or did they deliberately make up a weird fashion just for the sake of being different?

Some claim it was a prison chic thing, coming from the fact that you're not allowed belts in prison, and the right-sized clothing isn't always available.

However, like most fashions, it's hard to pin down exact origins. Regardless, it definitely has cultural associations, and those associated cultures have associations with some ethnic communities.

It's also kind of arbitrary to distinguish between a fashion that is traditional because it was in style five hundred or a thousand years ago, and a fashion that is traditional because it was in style 30 years ago.

My ex (who is a middle-aged black guy) said it was originally used in prison culture to signal to other inmates that you were sexually available -- but then some people thought it looked cool and started doing it without knowing the original meaning.

I'm not sure how reliable that info is, though. My ex was definitely interested in black history and culture, and had plenty of personal experience with the community -- but he wasn't always good at separating credible information from conspiracy theories.

[USS Monitor]

Wearing camouflage is a different issue really, I suggest it be treated as such in its own thread. Nothing wrong with this thread being about low-ridin' troosers.

So pants sagging qualifies as something a national leader should give a shit about, but not pineapple pizza?

I'm not sure if we actually need an issue about sagging pants, but at least it has some cultural implications that pineapple pizza doesn't.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Wearing camouflage is a different issue really, I suggest it be treated as such in its own thread. Nothing wrong with this thread being about low-ridin' troosers.

So pants sagging qualifies as something a national leader should give a shit about, but not pineapple pizza?

Not on its own, which is why it needs the additional element of how this is legislation that attacks ethnic minorities, as I've been saying all along.

As I said in your thread, the rule of thumb on issues about seemingly trivial things is that there should be a deeper issue concealed within it.

[Socio Polor]

New Draft is up, hopefully it's of better standard now. I've also thought of adding an option that outlaws clothing, think it's necessary?
Edit: Also, should I keep the adult validity on here since this issue mentions pornstars, or is it alright amongst young players?

[Australian rePublic]

Is it a fashion trend or is it just for confort?

[Socio Polor]

Is it a fashion trend or is it just for confort?

It's a fashion trend

[USS Monitor]

I feel like the cultural side of this could be handled better. Minorities aren't a monolithic group that all have the same culture. IRL, sagging pants isn't a "minority" thing. It's primarily an African-American thing. Or people that are into black culture. I'd suggest choosing an NPC ethnic group like Bigtopians or something, and giving the culture clash a more prominent role in the draft.

[Socio Polor]

I feel like the cultural side of this could be handled better. Minorities aren't a monolithic group that all have the same culture. IRL, sagging pants isn't a "minority" thing. It's primarily an African-American thing. Or people that are into black culture. I'd suggest choosing an NPC ethnic group like Bigtopians or something, and giving the culture clash a more prominent role in the draft.

While you mostly do see African Americans do this, other minority groups such as Hispanics are also doing it. The only minority group I haven't seen do it often are Asian Americans. Though I see what you mean and will make the adjustement

[Socio Polor]

Updated based on Monitor's advice

[Socio Polor]

Overdue bump on this one

[Socio Polor]

Bump! Also, I'm contemplating also submiting this for the contest

[Socio Polor]

Fixed some grammar and punctuation errors

[Westinor]

Title: It’s Just Swag

Description: Sagging has become the number one fashion trend in @@name@@, with many teens and youthful denizens dubbing it: "the trend of the decade!" and "the new formal!" However, when high school student @@randommalename@@ came into class with his pants at his knees, many are wondering if this fashion craze is going too far with many considering it borderline nudity.

You shouldn't need a colon here nor the exclamation marks, and changing "the new format" to maybe, "the new cool" might make it sound better

I also think you could make a joke where you say "many are wondering if this fashion craze is going too far", though to be honest I have no good ideas on that right now (fashion has gone too far down? many are wondering if the sag fad might be a bit bad? Again, not very many great ideas, heh)

Validity: Adult, Nudity Is Outlawed and Moderate to High Youth Rebellion (Maybe?)

Prudism policy, you mean?

[ "What has happened to our youth @@leader@@?" questions @@randommalefirstname@@ Urkel with his pants covering his shirt.

Perhaps pants up to his chest? Or in a classy onepiece? I get that pants covering his shirt is an exaggeration for humor but trying to figure out how that would work is making my mind go bonkers lol

“I agree with Mr. Urkel that this is indecent, but mandating how people dress isn't the way to go," intervenes @@randomname@@, one of @@name@@'s prominent fashion designers. "It's evidently clear to me that the problem is our country's outdated fashion that has these kids dressing like strippers. Work with me @@leader@@, and I'll have these kids looking like supermodels."

change evidently clear to just "evident to me" or "clear to me", also maybe add sense behind fashion?

Also, not horribly clear what the designer is suggesting here. I get the idea, but what are they going to do? (ex: enforce that everyone wears clothes deemed 'fashionable', campaign/influence a new kind of fashion sense on the kids)

Nonetheless, this effect line is hilarious, imo

maybe some billboards and posters that read 'We sag because it's swag' it has a sorta ring to it, don't you agree?"

separate sentence at 'We sag because it's Swag',

Overall, I like your effect lines, they're pretty good take what you will from here