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LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

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Under which leaders (if any) was the Soviet Union socialist?

Lenin (1918-1924)
411
34%
Stalin (1924-1953)
223
19%
Khrushchev (1953-1964)
149
12%
Brezhnev (1964-1982)
125
10%
Gorbachev (1985-1991)
126
10%
Never
167
14%
 
Total votes : 1201

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Northern Davincia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:41 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:So this gay commie wrote a letter to Stalin asking whether homosexuals can be party member.

Stalin's response? “Archive. An idiot and a degenerate. J. Stalin.”


This kinda shit is an example out of many of exactly why the USSR and its derivatives fucking suck and did nothing good for furthering the cause of Socialism.

Perhaps socialism always degenerates into brutishness when practiced on a sufficiently large scale.
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Totally Not OEP
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Postby Totally Not OEP » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:42 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
This kinda shit is an example out of many of exactly why the USSR and its derivatives fucking suck and did nothing good for furthering the cause of Socialism.

Perhaps socialism always degenerates into brutishness when practiced on a sufficiently large scale.


Nah, that can't be it!
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Northern Davincia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:43 pm

Totally Not OEP wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Perhaps socialism always degenerates into brutishness when practiced on a sufficiently large scale.


Nah, that can't be it!

It will work this time, comrade!
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Cappuccina
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:47 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
Nah, that can't be it!

It will work this time, comrade!

That's pretty much with any ideology that is replayed. Humanity has a knack for belief in bad ideas.....and then wanting another go at it....after it just left your parents and grandparents wiping their asses with wallpaper in the decades prior.
Last edited by Cappuccina on Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rostavykhan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rostavykhan » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:08 pm

Totally Not OEP wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Perhaps socialism always degenerates into brutishness when practiced on a sufficiently large scale.


Nah, that can't be it!


Lol your ideology didn't even last a decade and left Europe devastated, Socialism is leagues better by comparison.

The only failure of Socialism was Stalin not razing Berlin and driving the Western allies into the Atlantic.
 

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Cappuccina
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:16 pm

Rostavykhan wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
Nah, that can't be it!


Lol your ideology didn't even last a decade and left Europe devastated, Socialism is leagues better by comparison.

The only failure of Socialism was Stalin not razing Berlin and driving the Western allies into the Atlantic.

>Believes Soviets could actually accomplish that coming out of WW2..... :rofl:

The smartest thing Stalin did was "Socialism in One Country", tbh.
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Rostavykhan
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Founded: Sep 30, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rostavykhan » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:29 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Rostavykhan wrote:
Lol your ideology didn't even last a decade and left Europe devastated, Socialism is leagues better by comparison.

The only failure of Socialism was Stalin not razing Berlin and driving the Western allies into the Atlantic.

>Believes Soviets could actually accomplish that coming out of WW2..... :rofl:

The smartest thing Stalin did was "Socialism in One Country", tbh.


I can dream. Feelsbadman.jpg

Socialism In One Country I support, from the standpoint that a nation like the USSR, surrounded by enemies, needed to strengthen itself before turning it's attention to fostering revolution abroad.
Last edited by Rostavykhan on Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 

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Duvniask
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Duvniask » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:45 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
Nah, that can't be it!

It will work this time, comrade!

Imagine coming to agreement with a fascist about the "brutishness" of socialism.

Also, the laziest argument in existence.
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Asherahan
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Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Asherahan » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:31 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Rostavykhan wrote:
Lol your ideology didn't even last a decade and left Europe devastated, Socialism is leagues better by comparison.

The only failure of Socialism was Stalin not razing Berlin and driving the Western allies into the Atlantic.

>Believes Soviets could actually accomplish that coming out of WW2..... :rofl:

The smartest thing Stalin did was "Socialism in One Country", tbh.

Tbh he actually could you he Soviets had more tanks, planes and troops Stalin just thought though that going to WWIII directly after WWII would not be cool.
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North German Realm
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby North German Realm » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:51 am

Asherahan wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:>Believes Soviets could actually accomplish that coming out of WW2..... :rofl:

The smartest thing Stalin did was "Socialism in One Country", tbh.

Tbh he actually could you he Soviets had more tanks, planes and troops Stalin just thought though that going to WWIII directly after WWII would not be cool.

Not really. The Soviet war machine was not designed for fighting an enemy that was not outnumbered to a comedic degree, nor was it designed to fight what the Allied powers had set as their own military doctrine. And the moment they actually tried to fight (at least in 1945, before Soviets got their own nukes) they'd be in risk of having Moscow nuked.
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Totenborg
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Ex-Nation

Postby Totenborg » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:43 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
This kinda shit is an example out of many of exactly why the USSR and its derivatives fucking suck and did nothing good for furthering the cause of Socialism.

Perhaps socialism always degenerates into brutishness when practiced on a sufficiently large scale.

And right libertarianism degenerates into brutishnes immediately. That being said, authoritarian socialism sucks as hard as fascism does.
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Pasong Tirad
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:26 am

Duvniask wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:It will work this time, comrade!

Imagine coming to agreement with a fascist about the "brutishness" of socialism.

Also, the laziest argument in existence.

They don't care about being right. This isn't discourse to them, this is a performance. They aren't here to change our minds or broaden their own understanding they're here to own the commies until we give up and leave the forum.
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:01 am

Not sure which of you submitted my ramblings on monarchy to fundies say the darndest things. I'm not angry, but I think you should know I'm not a fundamentalist. Maybe a religious extremist, but not a fundamentalist, given that I'm an LGBT-affirming, evolution-believing, left-leaning, anti-hierarchy, purgatorial universalist. I don't exactly fit the mold of the Baptist preacher down the street.

Also, the irony of the homophobia in the comments on the post is quite amusing, as if it is totally lost on those commenting on it.
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Rostavykhan
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rostavykhan » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:27 am

>UMN
>Fundus

Yeah...I don't see it. I mean, "extremist", maybe-ish? I don't think "fundamentalist" though. Fundamentalist has more of a connotation of being irrational and rabid IMO. UMN is usually one of the more chill people on the site in my experience.

And I say that as an agnostic who heavily dislikes most religion.
 

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Hanafuridake
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hanafuridake » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:29 am

Rostavykhan wrote:
Totally Not OEP wrote:
Nah, that can't be it!


Lol your ideology didn't even last a decade and left Europe devastated, Socialism is leagues better by comparison.

The only failure of Socialism was Stalin not razing Berlin and driving the Western allies into the Atlantic.


That would imply Stalin was competent enough to be able to do that.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:36 am

Asherahan wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:>Believes Soviets could actually accomplish that coming out of WW2..... :rofl:

The smartest thing Stalin did was "Socialism in One Country", tbh.

Tbh he actually could you he Soviets had more tanks, planes and troops Stalin just thought though that going to WWIII directly after WWII would not be cool.


Lotta good that's gonna do the Soviets when the US drops a couple bombs and cuts off the Red Army entirely and famine sets in across the homeland along with Soviet industry being crippled due to the sudden lack of British and American resources flowing in.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:37 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Not sure which of you submitted my ramblings on monarchy to fundies say the darndest things. I'm not angry, but I think you should know I'm not a fundamentalist. Maybe a religious extremist, but not a fundamentalist, given that I'm an LGBT-affirming, evolution-believing, left-leaning, anti-hierarchy, purgatorial universalist. I don't exactly fit the mold of the Baptist preacher down the street.

Also, the irony of the homophobia in the comments on the post is quite amusing, as if it is totally lost on those commenting on it.


Const also ended up on the site. And there's a pretty great deal of people who aren't even fundamentalists on the site.

It's just a pathetic circlejerk. If they actually cared about anything other than mocking people for certain posts, they'd actually be debating.

But the site is specifically made so they can just mock, rather than discuss anything. Or, hell, be criticized themselves.
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Hanafuridake
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Postby Hanafuridake » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:42 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Tbh he actually could you he Soviets had more tanks, planes and troops Stalin just thought though that going to WWIII directly after WWII would not be cool.


Lotta good that's gonna do the Soviets when the US drops a couple bombs and cuts off the Red Army entirely and famine sets in across the homeland along with Soviet industry being crippled due to the sudden lack of British and American resources flowing in.


The only thing that the Soviet declaration of war on the Allies would've changed is that Moscow and Stalingrad would've been nuked instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:45 am

Hanafuridake wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Lotta good that's gonna do the Soviets when the US drops a couple bombs and cuts off the Red Army entirely and famine sets in across the homeland along with Soviet industry being crippled due to the sudden lack of British and American resources flowing in.


The only thing that the Soviet declaration of war on the Allies would've changed is that Moscow and Stalingrad would've been nuked instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Weren't there enough nukes for the both of them?
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Duvniask
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Duvniask » Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:57 am

Hanafuridake wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Lotta good that's gonna do the Soviets when the US drops a couple bombs and cuts off the Red Army entirely and famine sets in across the homeland along with Soviet industry being crippled due to the sudden lack of British and American resources flowing in.


The only thing that the Soviet declaration of war on the Allies would've changed is that Moscow and Stalingrad would've been nuked instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Given its near total destruction, Stalingrad would most likely not have been chosen as a target.
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North German Realm
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Postby North German Realm » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:00 am

Duvniask wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
The only thing that the Soviet declaration of war on the Allies would've changed is that Moscow and Stalingrad would've been nuked instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Given its near total destruction, Stalingrad would most likely not have been chosen as a target.

Honestly striking Moscow alone would be enough to neuter the Union as a threat in perpetuity, at least at that point. What I'm wondering is how they'd go around partitioning the USSR after its inevitable defeat.
Last edited by North German Realm on Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cappuccina
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Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:20 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Not sure which of you submitted my ramblings on monarchy to fundies say the darndest things. I'm not angry, but I think you should know I'm not a fundamentalist. Maybe a religious extremist, but not a fundamentalist, given that I'm an LGBT-affirming, evolution-believing, left-leaning, anti-hierarchy, purgatorial universalist. I don't exactly fit the mold of the Baptist preacher down the street.

Also, the irony of the homophobia in the comments on the post is quite amusing, as if it is totally lost on those commenting on it.

I'm sure it is lost on them UMN, it's hilarious.
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Crysuko
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Postby Crysuko » Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:40 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:Not sure which of you submitted my ramblings on monarchy to fundies say the darndest things. I'm not angry, but I think you should know I'm not a fundamentalist. Maybe a religious extremist, but not a fundamentalist, given that I'm an LGBT-affirming, evolution-believing, left-leaning, anti-hierarchy, purgatorial universalist. I don't exactly fit the mold of the Baptist preacher down the street.

Also, the irony of the homophobia in the comments on the post is quite amusing, as if it is totally lost on those commenting on it.

what? where?
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Duvniask
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Duvniask » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:03 am

North German Realm wrote:
Duvniask wrote:Given its near total destruction, Stalingrad would most likely not have been chosen as a target.

Honestly striking Moscow alone would be enough to neuter the Union as a threat in perpetuity, at least at that point. What I'm wondering is how they'd go around partitioning the USSR after its inevitable defeat.

In any event, an attack from either side was unlikely to happen just after the war had ended; tankies gonna be tankies, thinks the USSR was invincible. Also, the idea that the Western Allies could (not to mention should) have attacked is also unrealistic.
Radio Yerevan was asked: "Is it true that the poet Mayakovsky committed suicide?"
Radio Yerevan answered: "Yes, it is true, and even the record of his very last words is preserved: "Don't shoot, comrades."
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United Muscovite Nations
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Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:06 am

Crysuko wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Not sure which of you submitted my ramblings on monarchy to fundies say the darndest things. I'm not angry, but I think you should know I'm not a fundamentalist. Maybe a religious extremist, but not a fundamentalist, given that I'm an LGBT-affirming, evolution-believing, left-leaning, anti-hierarchy, purgatorial universalist. I don't exactly fit the mold of the Baptist preacher down the street.

Also, the irony of the homophobia in the comments on the post is quite amusing, as if it is totally lost on those commenting on it.

what? where?

https://fstdt.com/GM$BCB94QHWQD#comments
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The world is grey, the mountains old, the forges fire is ashen cold. No harp is wrung, no hammer falls, the darkness dwells in Durin's halls...
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